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Old 03-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #1
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Barking rear tires in turns...

Hi All,

Almost seams like the rear differential is locked (2000 Wrangler, 4" suspension only lift). At slow speed, tight turns, the inside rear tire squeals and/or the sway bar linkage creeks in agony. Started as creaking now very pronounced. Related to going through a slow turn and the rear end seams to hop off the frame by an inch in the direction of the turn (not literally; just a harsh clank and jump in the rear followed by explitives from the driver).

Any clues or experience would be much appreciated; inclined to start with a fluid change but seams more severe.

Xman

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Old 03-08-2012, 10:32 AM   #2
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It sounds like you're probably driving in 4x4 on a paved street. Your TJ's 4x4 system was not designed for use on paved streets, it will present all those symptoms when you drive it in 4Hi or 4Lo on the street. The Wrangler's 4x4 system was designed for offroad use only.

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Old 03-08-2012, 10:33 AM   #3
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You got a auto locker in the rear?
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:38 AM   #4
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To check if you do have a locker. Chock the front tires. Put transfercase or transmission in neutral with parking brake off. Lift both rear tires off the ground. Turn one tire by hand. If the other tire moves in the same direction you have a locker or LSD. If it moves in the opposite direction you have an open diff.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
It sounds like you're probably driving in 4x4 on a paved street.

And a big welcome to WF!
Like Jerry said...how does the 4wd lever feel when pulled on, its their a good solid feel to it as you pull it up/push it down from 4HI to 2HI, (you can do this while traveling, say in a parking lot. straight line, at 5mph to feel how it works) or is it loose in your hands, like it may not be connected?

I am asking because if it is loose then you may have a lever in 2HI but the linkage from the lever is not hooked up right and you are in 4HI.

And I guess if you are sure its the rear only then the idea of a hung up locker is another great place to look. But in 4hi on pavement the front tire barks in a turn and hard to tell what corner it is coming from, usually because it just scared the crap out of you as it jumps
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:41 AM   #6
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As long as there was nothing wrong with the wires from the t-case position sensor. His dash 4x4 light would be on regardless of where the shift lever is at.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:59 AM   #7
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Potential existence of a spool or Lincoln locker...
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:15 AM   #8
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Potential existence of a spool or Lincoln locker...
That was going to be my guess too. A previous owner may have been drinking beer when doing a dif fluid change, noticed his welder within reach and thought, "hey, I know...hold my beer..."
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:27 AM   #9
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That was going to be my guess too. A previous owner may have been drinking beer when doing a dif fluid change, noticed his welder within reach and thought, "hey, I know...hold my beer..."
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:19 PM   #10
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Thank you all so much for the feedback... differential is all stock, 2000 4.0 "Sport", manual transmission. Tried 4Hi and Low in a parking lot last night and almost seemed to get worse once returned to 2Hi, but may have been perception. Engagement at the lever did not seam to feel mushy, but I'm no expert...

I'll look into wiring or position sensors, Thx again!
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:23 PM   #11
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Again, you cannot drive in 4Hi or 4Lo on pavement which is what you were doing in that parking lot. Doing so WILL cause that issue you described. And shifting back into 2wd does not happen instantly after moving the lever back into 2wd. It will take you driving it a short distance before the t-case actually fully shifts back into 2wd.

There is nothing wrong with your TJ, its 4x4 system is working normally. Once again... you cannot drive in 4x4 (4Hi or 4Lo) on paved surfaces unless they are completely covered in snow or ice. The Wrangler's 4x4 system is strictly for off-paved road use only.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:25 PM   #12
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After being in 4X4 mode, it's a good idea to go in reverse (back up) for 8 to 10 feet to assist in complete disengagement of 4X4. Doesn't hurt at any rate.


+ 1 ^^^^^ on what Jerry said, unless you want to replace the Unit.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:28 PM   #13
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After being in 4X4 mode, it's a good idea to go in reverse (back up) for 8 to 10 feet to assist in complete disengagement of 4X4. Doesn't hurt at any rate.
It won't hurt but that isn't needed either. Simply driving normally will allow it to shift back into 2wd, gentle rather than hard application of the gas pedal helps to speed up the transition back to 2wd.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:43 PM   #14
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Hi Jerry,

Thanks very much for the feedback. Have had the Jeep and a couple other wheelers and am definately not trying to drive four on pavement, nor are the front wheels engaged its strictly the rears.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by kxavier View Post
Hi Jerry,

Thanks very much for the feedback. Have had the Jeep and a couple other wheelers and am definately not trying to drive four on pavement, nor are the front wheels engaged its strictly the rears.
i know it would probably grenade the carrier at some point but how much metal shavings/bits/chunks can get wedged in between the spider gears and lock them up?

Have you opened it up yet?
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:12 PM   #16
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I'll look into wiring or position sensors, Thx again!
these boogers are all manual, with no solenoids or any thing, lever down and its off, lever up and its on. The only sensor is a 4wd light sensor on top, but no real function of the 4wd system itself

maybe jacking up the rear and manually checking the tire rotation is the way to go then...
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #17
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maybe jacking up the rear and manually checking the tire rotation is the way to go then...
This.

Get Both Rear Tires in the Air and Spin 1 of them and See what Direction, if any, the Opposite Wheel Spins.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:22 PM   #18
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Thanks Duramax,

Will do tonight...

KX
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:05 PM   #19
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I used to have a 92 Isuzu Amigo and I would take sharp turn with my friends in the car to make the tires bark. We called it "barking the big dog" Tons of fun for sure
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:43 AM   #20
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Hey Duramax,

Thanks for the clue. They spun the same way; not good right? (re: differential locked up?). Cracked the case open to have a look: heavy damage to the "side gear" (the gear assy perpendicular to the axle right?). Bent over gears and fragments, oooy... probably in for $1000 I'm thinkin.

Jerry - believe me I know the clueless are out there, but I was not circling the parking lots in 4X mode on the asphault... wanted to put you at ease, again thanks all but screwed on this one as this is over my head from hear on out. Time for a beer.

KX
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:48 AM   #21
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Not to get off topic..but why can't you use 4H on pavement in a TJ I can in my YJ. Just curious because my father has a TJ that I occasionally drive and I don't want to break anything. He may be old but he can still run damn near as fast as me!
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:00 AM   #22
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4Hi = 2 Hi. why are you runnin four? I am a naive CA guy so I never have 4Hi weather. Increased control in snow? Otherwise you'll hurt that Jeep every time you turn on the pavement in 4hi... take it from the guy with a 1K bill
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:53 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kxavier
4Hi = 2 Hi. why are you runnin four? I am a naive CA guy so I never have 4Hi weather. Increased control in snow? Otherwise you'll hurt that Jeep every time you turn on the pavement in 4hi... take it from the guy with a 1K bill
You might not be as bad as you think. If the ring and pinion are inspected as ok, and it's just spider gears and carrier pin. D35 or D44 axle? (plastic push in fill plug or metal screw out fill plug on the cover)
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:11 AM   #24
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Jeez thanks and not sure this is new to me. Hope your right. Will get on lijnwe to figure out what ur talkin about
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:13 AM   #25
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.... oh and metal plug with square "allen" key type plug.
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:23 AM   #26
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Jeez thanks and not sure this is new to me. Hope your right. Will get on lijnwe to figure out what ur talkin about
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.... oh and metal plug with square "allen" key type plug.
Ow.. That's a messed up d44. Take a picture so we can see the damage.
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:25 AM   #27
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for your axle to be locking together, the area pointed with yellow arrows is where you problem is right?

the red arrow areas point to the ring and pinion (uninstalled on a bench of course).

If your damage didn't get out into the teeth of the red arrows area, it just got alot cheaper. the small screw (white arrow) comes out, the pin (starred) slides out, the spider gears (yellow) come out. Theres a few steps to get it to this point since this one is sitting on a bench and not in the axle (like sliding your axles out) but i am not sure how much of this you are going to do so i wont get to specific.

Summary...red arrow gears damaged = bad

yellow arrow gears damaged = not so bad
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:29 AM   #28
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ok, this is a D35, not a D44 gear set so I am bowing out slightly since i don't know the difference entirely between the two, but the red = bad, yellow = not so bad still applies, just not sure how they come out, or if they come out, like a D35
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Not to get off topic..but why can't you use 4H on pavement in a TJ I can in my YJ. Just curious because my father has a TJ that I occasionally drive and I don't want to break anything. He may be old but he can still run damn near as fast as me!
The YJ has a vacuum disconnect front axle that would prevent damage when it's not engaged. The TJ like said, could blow at anytime with 4wd on the pavement.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:07 AM   #30
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The TJ like said, could blow at anytime with 4wd on the pavement.
Not really. It will likely bind up before it'd break anything. Don't forget that wheelers do places like MOAB in 4x4 which has traction equal to a street and they aren't blowing their drivetrains. Way too many Wrangler TJ owners don't know they shouldn't use 4x4 on the street and do so out of ignorance... but without damage. The Wrangler's 4x4 system isn't THAT weak.

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