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Old 04-22-2013, 09:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by spencerlj View Post

I hear what you say about the Control Arms. Stressing the stock arms past the 2" suspension lift is the issue. On your setup you added a body lift with the 3.5" RE Superflex kit. I suppose that was because the RE Kit included new Arms whereas the OME Kit does not? Would adding new Arms to the OME Kit work just as well? Adding a JKS Control Arm kit for about $275-300 would work with the OME Kit? or does that not make sense. I am not a mechanic nor do I claim to be one. I am trying to make the right decision for myself.
I added the 1" body lift so that the transmission and exhaust would clear the firewall and tub when I did my belly up.
The best arms on the market are savvy Currie arms IMO followed by Rubicon express and teraflex tied for second. They are pricey but so are the jks arms and any of the arms I mentioned can be purchased separately from the kit.
The problem with factory arms is that with a 3+ inch lift spring the factory style arms will actually bind at full droop. The top part of the arm will hit the axle mount. This limits downward travel.
If you are dead set on ome, they make good stuff. If you add adjustable upper arms and fixed lowers then you will be good, adjustable lowers are even better.
The only other things to make sure you address with a flexible lift are front and rear track bars and brake lines. Most kits include a front track bar and a bracket for the rear which is adequate. And, most importantly, proper bump stops.

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Old 04-22-2013, 09:36 PM   #32
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Also, if you are going to spend money on arms invest in something with a johnny type joint and make sure it is rebuildable.

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Old 04-23-2013, 12:40 AM   #33
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I added the 1" body lift so that the transmission and exhaust would clear the firewall and tub when I did my belly up.
The best arms on the market are savvy Currie arms IMO followed by Rubicon express and teraflex tied for second. They are pricey but so are the jks arms and any of the arms I mentioned can be purchased separately from the kit.
The problem with factory arms is that with a 3+ inch lift spring the factory style arms will actually bind at full droop. The top part of the arm will hit the axle mount. This limits downward travel.
If you are dead set on ome, they make good stuff. If you add adjustable upper arms and fixed lowers then you will be good, adjustable lowers are even better.
The only other things to make sure you address with a flexible lift are front and rear track bars and brake lines. Most kits include a front track bar and a bracket for the rear which is adequate. And, most importantly, proper bump stops.
Honestly, rubi express arms and jks? Oh no..

You might as well run a pipe with bubble gum for bushings..

Metalcloak arms are even better. They use the duroflex joint. It has rubber to help with vibrations and such as well as the added plus of being self recentering.

Have you forgotten about Clayton or rock krawler? What about rokmen? Rubi express and jks arent even close..
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:44 AM   #34
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Rubicon express superflex, teraflex with 8 adjustable control arms, savvy's Currie 3" are all very good and fairly comprehensive lifts that will provide you with great durability, great off road performance and daily driving comfort.
A basic 3" lift consists of springs and shocks and will likely leave you unhappy with ride quality.
Bilstien and old man emu make some great shocks and Rubicon express shocks are also manufactured by bilstien and valved specifically for their lifts.
Expect to spend 1500 to 2500 for a good quality lift.
If you want to go all out in ride quality then you could go long arm but the cos goes up dramatically.
Plan on a slip yoke eliminator, a rear CV drive shaft and an alignment as well.
Quality lifts will provide you with the performance you would like on and off road. Quality shocks will help even more. Skimping on either and going the rough country, BDS, skyjacker, zone, etc...will have you in the same position as many of my customers...spending a lot more in the long run to undo what they skimped on in the beginning or, in extreme cases, selling their jeeps.
Dont know why you're all about rubi express. Maybe you haven't read the encyclopedia on their poly bushing failures. I can comment on that considering mine literally fell out of the housings. Not quality.

You're no better than those you speak of, promoting a reasonably scrappy product for a marginal gain.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:52 AM   #35
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Honestly, rubi express arms and jks? Oh no..

You might as well run a pipe with bubble gum for bushings..

Metalcloak arms are even better. They use the duroflex joint. It has rubber to help with vibrations and such as well as the added plus of being self recentering.

Have you forgotten about Clayton or rock krawler? What about rokmen? Rubi express and jks arent even close..
99.9% of ppl won't notice any difference. I understand all of the options out there but rubi exp short arms aren't the flaw in their kits. Its the lack of completeness within the kits and the long arm radius arm design. A duroflex joint is just as prone to failure as a rubi exp. Clayton and rock men are rebranded Currie. Rock krawler, tera and rubi exp are essentially similar in short arm quality. Savvy actually makes the best short arms (again rebranded currie) that are double adjustable and have a low weight alluminum arm with a nice adjustment point in the middle but those aren't available for a jk as far as I know. Keep in mind that on a jk, the flex is limited by shock length vs. similar arm designs. If you want we can even talk cj suspension as well.
The short answer, yup, Rubicon express arms are fine. If you want to go big and super flexy go 4 link and coil over. How about a custom 4 link designed specifically for your of road needs, how about 3 link.
We can discuss those as well or we can get over brand loyalty and forum knowledge really quickly.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:48 AM   #36
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How much experience do you have with the Duroflex joint to make the above claims?

Having misinformed customers who bought things without doing the research is really no reason to hate on a company either. Most companies don't make a 100% kit right off the bat, some actually allow you to add stuff to the base kit but once people see the price go up they opt out of it. Its because they don't know. It sounds like you get a lot of people who are eager to spend money but not do any research into what they are buying, also known as 90% of consumers (yes 68.7% of statistics are made up on the spot). The base kits are out there for a reason, it gives people a starting point but of course no one is going to market it like that or else no one would buy them. I'm actually surprised that you put BDS and ZONE in your list considering I have seen nothing but great reviews for either of them. Which in itself is surprising because most people are more likely to post complaints on the internet than praise. I will agree that Savvy makes some great arms if not the best although I dont see the point in the double adjustable arms, how often are you adjusting them that you need that? Yeah its a process to dial in pinion but you should only have to do it once.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:22 AM   #37
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Big dick suspensions and zone fall nowhere near the title "best 3" lift" also I'm not here to tie up a thread, I'm here to share real world experience. If the o.p. has more questions they would like to ask I would be glad to help them, that will free up your time greatly to go do some more research.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:23 AM   #38
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Again you made comment on the Duroflex, how much "real world experience" do you have with that bushing?
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:32 AM   #39
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Also, Rubicon express does not use poly bushings. They haven't in a couple of years.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:41 AM   #40
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The same engineers that design BDS are the ones that design Zone Offroad. They use the same computers and desks.
thanks for the correction
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:58 AM   #41
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This thread is incredibly stupid... really?

"Unless you spend 2 grand your not gona be happy."

Is this the truth? Since when are there absolutes in building these rigs?

OP I would advise you to really look into exactly what you want to do down the road. If you want to simply slap a kit on your jeep and have no worries, go for one of the setups mentioned on the first page of this thread, such as the currie, etc.

If you want a more hands on approach, there is nothing wrong with essentially buying a kit with springs and shocks to work off of, and adding your own parts and basically doing what you want. You don't need to be limited by the confines of what is available in a kit. It takes a lot of knowledge and understanding to make decisions on this kind of stuff, but I personally know that I wouldn't want to drop a few thousand dollars on something I didn't understand, at the advice of a bunch of quarreling forum fellows. Spend an hour a night reading about this stuff, and after two or three weeks you'll know all you need to know about basic suspensions, and it will make your decision much easier, and I'm sure you will be more confident that you purchased the right lift for you.

Goodluck on your lift search.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:05 AM   #42
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based of jruss' lack of response I am going to say that his "real world experience" comment on the duroflex joint has no basis what so ever.

I agree with Golden.

I am in the process of deciding on my lift. I plan to go with a spring/shock combo that I can run without new arms but will be upgrading all of my arms as time and money permit. Along with that my track bars will also be seeing upgrades. I may end up just saving it all and doing it once though as well. I really am not sure.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:08 AM   #43
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based of jruss' lack of response I am going to say that his "real world experience" comment on the duroflex joint has no basis what so ever.
here's a good review of Duroflex vs Currie Johnny Joints, with real world experience.

How the Metalcloak Duroflex bushing stacks up - JeepForum.com
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:41 AM   #44
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here's a good review of Duroflex vs Currie Johnny Joints, with real world experience.

How the Metalcloak Duroflex bushing stacks up - JeepForum.com
Oh I know, I have read that, hence why I am getting MC arms for my build up. I was just being a smartbutt since he dismissed them so easily when he obviously has no experience with them. Solid link though lord knows Imped knows his stiff when it comes to all of this. That link and some of the longer term, higher mileage testing going on with JKs seems to point to these joints not having any issues with failures. Again OP good luck.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #45
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Thanks homebrewd,

Everyone needs to understand that me and everyone else aren't pushing the spending of money but in reality, a set of quality parts isn't cheap and you will have to put the dough out (1k on CA's alone).

I have real world experience with the duroflex bushings, I have them on all arms and I'm also 3 linked in the rear. My rig is not stock and I am not talking out my ass. They are a better joint than the johnny joint IMO so far.

Thumb through that thread and get back to us.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:44 AM   #46
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based of jruss' lack of response I am going to say that his "real world experience" comment on the duroflex joint has no basis what so ever.

I agree with Golden.

I am in the process of deciding on my lift. I plan to go with a spring/shock combo that I can run without new arms but will be upgrading all of my arms as time and money permit. Along with that my track bars will also be seeing upgrades. I may end up just saving it all and doing it once though as well. I really am not sure.
Ha, this is hilarious.
Hi my name is x, let me tell you about lifts because I have owned and lifted evey jeep model from the past 30 years, I also happen to do this for a living.
Or
Hi my name is y, I am still deciding on my lift.

I wonder who is providing better advice. Also, this isn't a pissing contest, this is a help forum. So like I said before if the o.p. has further questions I will be more than happy to answer. I don't want to clog a thread with your responses or mine. If you have further concerns please be polite and p.m. me. I will be more than happy to discuss more with you there.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:58 AM   #47
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Ha, this is hilarious.
Hi my name is x, let me tell you about lifts because I have owned and lifted evey jeep model from the past 30 years, I also happen to do this for a living.
Or
Hi my name is y, I am still deciding on my lift.

I wonder who is providing better advice. Also, this isn't a pissing contest, this is a help forum. So like I said before if the o.p. has further questions I will be more than happy to answer. I don't want to clog a thread with your responses or mine. If you have further concerns please be polite and p.m. me. I will be more than happy to discuss more with you there.
Just because someone's been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean they've been doing it right for 30 years.

This isn't clogging a thread either, it's simply educating you and others on lift components as well as correcting your ignorance in some cases given.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:28 PM   #48
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Goodluck on your lift search.
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Originally Posted by jrussblues View Post
I wonder who is providing better advice.
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Just because someone's been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean they've been doing it right for 30 years.
Exactly. When you don't know, you can't make an educated decision with your money. That's why many will advise do your homework, read, learn, repeat...and then repeat some more. Understand how your suspension works, what each individual component does, the how & the why, and how geometry, alignment, axle position, etc all change. Then put together your own suspension "kit", so you get what you're looking for based on your homework, and the intended usage.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:39 PM   #49
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Ha, this is hilarious.
Hi my name is x, let me tell you about lifts because I have owned and lifted evey jeep model from the past 30 years, I also happen to do this for a living.
Or
Hi my name is y, I am still deciding on my lift.

I wonder who is providing better advice. Also, this isn't a pissing contest, this is a help forum. So like I said before if the o.p. has further questions I will be more than happy to answer. I don't want to clog a thread with your responses or mine. If you have further concerns please be polite and p.m. me. I will be more than happy to discuss more with you there.
Whats hilarious is that you still have yet to answer my question, you claim to know that the duroflex joint is just a prone to failure as the RE joint yet you still cant tell me if you have any experience with it.

I appreciate that you have experience with this stuff and I wish I had more of it, its why I help out local jeepers with installs and ask for reviews on products before making decision, hence me still researching. I don't want to be one of your customers who sells their Jeep because of a bad purchase.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:21 PM   #50
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Whats hilarious is that you still have yet to answer my question, you claim to know that the duroflex joint is just a prone to failure as the RE joint yet you still cant tell me if you have any experience with it.

I appreciate that you have experience with this stuff and I wish I had more of it, its why I help out local jeepers with installs and ask for reviews on products before making decision, hence me still researching. I don't want to be one of your customers who sells their Jeep because of a bad purchase.
Exactly, and any arm using a poly bushing is a no no
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:24 PM   #51
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Whats hilarious is that you still have yet to answer my question, you claim to know that the duroflex joint is just a prone to failure as the RE joint yet you still cant tell me if you have any experience with it.

I appreciate that you have experience with this stuff and I wish I had more of it, its why I help out local jeepers with installs and ask for reviews on products before making decision, hence me still researching. I don't want to be one of your customers who sells their Jeep because of a bad purchase.
You can p.m. me with questions if you like, I already stated that I would be happy to help you understand that. Thanks.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #52
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Just because someone's been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean they've been doing it right for 30 years.

This isn't clogging a thread either, it's simply educating you and others on lift components as well as correcting your ignorance in some cases given.
You should read more carefully before replying, and you are clogging the thread. P.m. me if you like. Thanks.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:30 PM   #53
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The only thing you got me to understand is that you're uneducated about control arms
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:49 PM   #54
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I have an 8 year old Teraflex 4 inch lift kit with arms. It was installed by the PO when he bought it new and put 33's on it. It has 60K on the clock. The arms still work like they are suppose to. But I have to say that next time I will be using something that allows me to adjust my tire centers and pinion angles. I am going to go with Savvy. I have seen the product and feel that it is the right choice for me as I want to drive faster off road and crawl harder while maintaining my DD ability.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:57 PM   #55
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I have an 8 year old Teraflex 4 inch lift kit with arms. It was installed by the PO when he bought it new and put 33's on it. It has 60K on the clock. The arms still work like they are suppose to. But I have to say that next time I will be using something that allows me to adjust my tire centers and pinion angles. I am going to go with Savvy. I have seen the product and feel that it is the right choice for me as I want to drive faster off road and crawl harder while maintaining my DD ability.
Bob! What's up man!!

Another great point, IMO, all 8 arms need to be adjustable.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:06 PM   #56
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You guys sure do throw alot of money at these Jeeps. I know what Jeep stands for
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:14 PM   #57
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Hey Nick. Yeah I do believe if you want to have the "Best" kit then it needs to be able to center the axle in the wheel well and adjust for thrust, pinion angle, and Square. The ends are debatable. The Hot rod industry has tried everything from Heim Joints which have great articulation and strength but are harsh and tend to wear due to grit. The other extreme is rubber which can be made very soft but that affects handling and wear. Poly, Delrin, teflon and many other plastic bushings have been tried with varying degrees of success. Until the advent of a spherical bushing they did not allow for much movement in the joint and can be harsh on a street car. Jeeps by their very nature do require a joint that has a larger range of motion than a corvette. Finding the perfect joint has yet to be discovered. But some are better than others.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #58
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I'm still running stock arms, and I want to mention that they do not limit flex and my 3 inch coils will unseat. You can generalize coils because they all have different rates and lengths to achieve the same/similar end result.

I have no upgraded arms because I plan on a custom link setup. If I find that I need new arms at some point between then and now,such as my upcoming shock outboard,then I will probably get some. My point is you can run stock arms on a smaller lift. If you are looking at 3-4+ you are getting to the point where you can outstep the stock arms limits. That isn't really fair to say, because you can push the stock arms limits with a stock height lift, but without any other modifications I feel like the stock arms are adequate up to around 3 inches of suspension lift, as far as travel and clearance is concerned. Just some food for thought. With a low lift setup suspension I would spend 1K on a lot of other things before arms. Just a quick example: I am adding a sye/ DC drive shaft, 8.8 w/ LSD and all new parts and artec truss, plus a custom cross member and tummy tuck skid plate, plus a new front axle, and will get a regear from 3.07 to 4.10 out of the swaps as well. Basically through smart spending and planning I am getting 3-4k in "bolt in" aftermarket stuff for right at 1 grand. This will prove to be much more beneficial than 8 arms, but only in my specific instance. Once I outboard I will probably be wanting for the new arms.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:06 PM   #59
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I'm still running stock arms, and I want to mention that they do not limit flex and my 3 inch coils will unseat. You can generalize coils because they all have different rates and lengths to achieve the same/similar end result.

I have no upgraded arms because I plan on a custom link setup. If I find that I need new arms at some point between then and now,such as my upcoming shock outboard,then I will probably get some. My point is you can run stock arms on a smaller lift. If you are looking at 3-4+ you are getting to the point where you can outstep the stock arms limits. That isn't really fair to say, because you can push the stock arms limits with a stock height lift, but without any other modifications I feel like the stock arms are adequate up to around 3 inches of suspension lift, as far as travel and clearance is concerned. Just some food for thought. With a low lift setup suspension I would spend 1K on a lot of other things before arms. Just a quick example: I am adding a sye/ DC drive shaft, 8.8 w/ LSD and all new parts and artec truss, plus a custom cross member and tummy tuck skid plate, plus a new front axle, and will get a regear from 3.07 to 4.10 out of the swaps as well. Basically through smart spending and planning I am getting 3-4k in "bolt in" aftermarket stuff for right at 1 grand. This will prove to be much more beneficial than 8 arms, but only in my specific instance. Once I outboard I will probably be wanting for the new arms.
I've gone through two sets of lower rears. When you go fast, the factory tin foil arms can't hack it. Believe me at 50 mph through some rough sections you don't want them to give out. I've experienced it and I won't be gambling my life on it again.

Fact is without adjustable arms in the rear you'll need to be spot on welding those brackets because you won't have any cushion with the non adjustable factory arms. This is also why I ditched them.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:09 PM   #60
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Hey Nick. Yeah I do believe if you want to have the "Best" kit then it needs to be able to center the axle in the wheel well and adjust for thrust, pinion angle, and Square. The ends are debatable. The Hot rod industry has tried everything from Heim Joints which have great articulation and strength but are harsh and tend to wear due to grit. The other extreme is rubber which can be made very soft but that affects handling and wear. Poly, Delrin, teflon and many other plastic bushings have been tried with varying degrees of success. Until the advent of a spherical bushing they did not allow for much movement in the joint and can be harsh on a street car. Jeeps by their very nature do require a joint that has a larger range of motion than a corvette. Finding the perfect joint has yet to be discovered. But some are better than others.
This is true, and the duroflex provides the best of both worlds being a rebuildable flex joint with a rubber inner . It's self centering nature is also a nice plus too. I'll have to bring one of my old RE arms with me next trip and let you compare the two. It's a whole nother ball park.

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