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Old 09-19-2012, 04:20 PM   #61
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I take offense to the terms cop, and law enforcement officer, when refering to a pig.

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Old 09-19-2012, 04:22 PM   #62
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The doors and roof are not ment for safety but only protection from weather elements. The Judge shouldn't have never sided with the police officer in this case. Just for the pure cause of it, if you have time. Get what ever club or group you roll with and go after the law, judgee, and trooper for this. It is clear also that this police officer has it in for you or Jeep/Jeep Wranglers in general

I know there is money involved but with enough people the cost to jump down these peoples throats should be reasonable
Or he could just do what the judge suggested. The officer was doing his job, enforcing traffic law, and the judge determined that he was in violation of the law as the officer had cited him for. If he let greenhead go and cited the next guy it could have been seen as selective prosecution, if you have worked in our field you would understand what I mean. Almost every time I cut someone slack it would come back to bite me in the butt. That person would think I only cut them slack because my case was weak, I would then have to spend a month proving that I had ARS and explain why I helped them out instead of citing/arresting them but not the next guy.
Would I have stopped him for his doors being off? No, it’s a minor violation and I do not like citing the average honest person for minor infractions.
Your anger is directed at the wrong persons, the Judge and "police". What he could do is write his legislators asking them to clarify the law or review it.

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Old 09-19-2012, 04:35 PM   #63
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In before this gets locked!!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:37 PM   #64
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I don't understand how it fits, in all honesty the vehicle was manufactured without a roof, the roof is added later. Its an add on and nothing more, you can ride around with no roof all you want.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:40 PM   #65
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Or he could just do what the judge suggested. The officer was doing his job, enforcing traffic law, and the judge determined that he was in violation of the law as the officer had cited him for. If he let greenhead go and cited the next guy it could have been seen as selective prosecution, if you have worked in our field you would understand what I mean. Almost every time I cut someone slack it would come back to bite me in the butt. That person would think I only cut them slack because my case was weak, I would then have to spend a month proving that I had ARS and explain why I helped them out instead of citing/arresting them but not the next guy.
Would I have stopped him for his doors being off? No, it’s a minor violation and I do not like citing the average honest person for minor infractions.
Your anger is directed at the wrong persons, the Judge and "Police". What he could do is write his legislators asking them to clarify the law or review it.
I don't work in your field so I might not be qualified to say I don't agree with you, but at the very least there's usually two sides to every story.

Right off the bat, if this is what we are paying our Law Enforcements for, then something is seriously wrong. Instead of doing something productive like stopping the real criminals out there, this trooper decides to waste everyone's time and our tax money by spending a few hours in court over a frivolous $110 fine.

But then again, I don't know the trooper and who knows, maybe he's one of the good ones ... maybe the OP was being a jerk and the trooper wanted to teach him a lesson. (No offense to you, O.P. but I don't know you either!)
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:56 PM   #66
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:58 PM   #67
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Could you purchase a Jeep without the doors?

If you can, then the vehicle is manufactured without the doors and they are an "optional" item and should be exempted.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:59 PM   #68
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Right off the bat, if this is what we are paying our Law Enforcements for, then something is seriously wrong. Instead of doing something productive like stopping the real criminals out there, this trooper decides to waste everyone's time and our tax money by spending a few hours in court over a frivolous $110 fine.

You would be shocked by the amount of "real criminals" that are arrested by being pulled over for breaking traffic laws.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:12 PM   #69
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You would be shocked by the amount of "real criminals" that are arrested by being pulled over for breaking traffic laws.
Probably not shocked per say, but that is a whole other subject. I'm talking about a cop who would waste the courts time to pursue a frivolous fine.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:15 PM   #70
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I've only interacted with a few cops in my 42 years. I'd say all of them did their jobs the right way. If someone has interacted and had bad experiences with dozens I tend to think that explains itself.. Jeeps are meant to go door-less, topless, don't think that should be enforceable. JMHO
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:20 PM   #71
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Probably not shocked per say, but that is a whole other subject. I'm talking about a cop who would waste the courts time to pursue a frivolous fine.
The cop wrote him a ticket that's payable by mail, then Greenhead chose to take it to court to fight it.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:45 PM   #72
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I've only interacted with a few cops in my 42 years. I'd say all of them did their jobs the right way. If someone has interacted and had bad experiences with dozens I tend to think that explains itself.. Jeeps are meant to go door-less, topless, don't think that should be enforceable. JMHO
I was thinking the same thing. If you have that much experience with the police your probably the problem. I base this assertion on experience as a former officer. Sucks you didn't win but I give you props for standing up for your beliefs.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:20 PM   #73
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Most LEO's deal with more crap on a daily basis than most should deal with in a lifetime. As far as the "real criminal" comment, by definition of this law the OP was a real criminal. Do I think he should have been cited? No. But the law was written in a way that even the judge who was sympathetic couldn't reverse the citation. You win some, you lose some. Now get out there and work to change that law so you don't have to pay another $110.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:33 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Dew View Post

Right off the bat, if this is what we are paying our Law Enforcements for, then something is seriously wrong. Instead of doing something productive like stopping the real criminals out there, this trooper decides to waste everyone's time and our tax money by spending a few hours in court over a frivolous $110 fine...
The Trooper didn't write the law. And I betcha he can make you a pretty long list of unproductive laws he is forced to enforce and would like to change. Gets pretty old to be the deliverer of bad news that your legislators (in PA in this case) have written all kinds of nonsensical laws that he has to enforce.

Emphasis on "HAS" to enforce. He/She is monitored and watched by his/her superiors as well as all the other public that is passing by too as he/she goes about their daily business of law enforcement. Emphasis on "enforcement". And its simply easier for him/her to enforce what is given them to enforce than to be asked to be the judge and jury too. You really don't want to place in their hands the responsibility of choosing which laws to enforce and which to not enforce Seriously you don't. That can be dangerous. We see our President or the United States now doing it all the time but that doesn't make it right. In fact its counter to our entire system. So... aim your anger about the ridiculous laws at the source... the legislature. And make them change them. Its how our system of government works.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:48 PM   #75
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Ok how about this, CJ's were manufactured without doors at all, Doors were an option. So just convince Jeep to make doors a no cost option but still list them as an option. There problem solved. I think all the anger against law enforcement in this thread and in this country as a whole is because some (cops) due things everyday in their own life and give tickets to other people for doing the very same thing. Some officers act like because they enforce the law they don't have to abide by it. How many times have you seen a cop roll through a stop sign or doing 90 on the highway without his (or her) lights on. How about flipping on their lights so they don't have to stop at a red light. I'm not saying in any way that all cops are behaving this way, but a small minority are. Until all law enforcement lives by the laws that they enforce (even the little one's) we will continue to have this problem. And as for my Doorless solution, I have never been pulled over for this here in Maryland but I'm getting tube doors for next summer just to be on the safe side.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:56 PM   #76
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Ive been driving mine with no top and doors for a couple years now with no problem here in PA. Also drove from Erie to Pittsburgh without doors and top this summer and no problem. They don't even look twice. The op just got the one cop who wasn't in a good mood lol
They figure if you can survive I-79, you're too tough for them to mess with! (I grew up in McKean and lived most of my adult life in Pittsburgh - I've traveled that stretch of "highway" /goatpath all too many times!)
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:03 PM   #77
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Question, seeing as you were warned for the doors, why not put the doors back on until you were able to get an interpretation of the law from a judge, then carry that as proof for the next time this trooper pulled you over for it and avoid this whole mess? I like riding topless and doorless as much as any jeeper, but when a cop warns you that your not in compliance with the law, your playing with fire trying to show him up.

Not saying what happened to you was right, but as you can tell, police can and will write you up for tedious BS when they feel your disrespecting them, it's sad but it's the country we live in, we give these jobs to power hungry people every once in a while. Hope you win your case.
Most Judges don't give "Advisory Opinions"..... Typically it takes this kind of landmark legal action for law to mature. I'm not sure of the outcome here but if the OP were to lose and take it to the next level he could make common law.

Q - did the OP have side mirrors?
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:04 PM   #78
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<snip> I know some Cops can be hard asses and they make the rest of us look bad.
Now THAT is the only way PA can ever be fixed! Not that PA is the only state where this is an issue, but it's certainly one of the worst when it comes to officers with attitude muscles. If only the majority - the ones who truly want to serve the citizens they risk their lives to serve - would stand up and get rid of the a$$holes like this guy, PA and other places would be better...well, places!

Happily OUT of PA!!!

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Old 09-20-2012, 01:02 AM   #79
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They figure if you can survive I-79, you're too tough for them to mess with! (I grew up in McKean and lived most of my adult life in Pittsburgh - I've traveled that stretch of "highway" /goatpath all too many times!)
Hahaha yeah that's it!
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:27 AM   #80
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In refrence did i have side mirrors ...
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:56 AM   #81
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Im glad you might be one of the few good ones. To bad most are not like you. Manny earn the term I used every day they strap on there gun, badge, and attitude. Didn't mean to offend but I hate cops in general with a sick twisted passion as most are bad, while having a high apprecition for those that do it right. My favorite teacher in HS was a full time teacher/part time police officer. Amazing guy. Right now my interaction count is at 5 good cops to dozens of ones who are less then addiquate human beings

You keep fighting for the good ones and I'll keep hating every day that the bad ones give you guys a bad name.
You my friend are a huge problem in today's society. I too am in law enforcement. Not your everyday street guy but it doesn't matter. I work plain clothes narcotics. I also struggle with guys I work with giving out tickets for stuff that I don't agree with but guess what...that's their job. ur brother, father, cousin, other close relative might decide to choose law enforcement for an occupation one day and then what? Are they a pig? If your job is to herd sheep, are you gonna herd goats? No.

Every occupation has bad people in it. When's the last time you seen a corrupt jr high janitor on CNN? Never! You know why? BC it don't make interesting news.

Another question....if someone is breaking into your house in the the middle of the night, are you not gonna call the Police? the Police that would also take a bullet to defend YOUR home, the same person that bad mouths them? I'm not saying there aren't bad police out there but there are also bad teachers, politicians, presidents, waitresses, ect.. I'm lucky to work with a lot of good people. You shouldn't judge things as a whole.

Theres a lot of LE out there that are hard core jeepers. I've been bringing more in to the jeep family in the recent weeks. It's pretty degrading to see people talk like this on here. It makes it very un motivating.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:09 AM   #82
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You would be shocked by the amount of "real criminals" that are arrested by being pulled over for breaking traffic laws.
X2 Some idiot was just stopped near the airport yesterday for following to close. Upon K-9 inspection the driver had 65# of pot stashed in the bumpers and door panels.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:20 AM   #83
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You my friend are a huge problem in today's society. I too am in law enforcement. Not your everyday street guy but it doesn't matter. I work plain clothes narcotics. I also struggle with guys I work with giving out tickets for stuff that I don't agree with but guess what...that's their job. ur brother, father, cousin, other close relative might decide to choose law enforcement for an occupation one day and then what? If your job is to herd sheep, are you gonna herd goats? No.

Every occupation has bad people in it. When's the last time you seen a corrupt jr high janitor on CNN? Never! You know why? BC it don't make interesting news.

Another question....if someone is breaking into your house in the the middle of the night, are you not gonna call the Police? the Police that would also take a bullet to defend YOUR home, the same person that bad mouths them? I'm not saying there aren't bad police out there but there are also bad teachers, politicians, presidents, waitresses, ect.. I'm lucky to work with a lot of good people. You shouldn't judge things as a whole.

Theres a lot of LE out there that are hard core jeepers. I've been bringing more in to the jeep family in the recent weeks. It's pretty degrading to see people talk like this on here. It makes it very un motivating.
Well said and I agree 100%.
Thanks for your service.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:39 AM   #84
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You my friend are a huge problem in today's society. I too am in law enforcement. Not your everyday street guy but it doesn't matter. I work plain clothes narcotics. I also struggle with guys I work with giving out tickets for stuff that I don't agree with but guess what...that's their job. ur brother, father, cousin, other close relative might decide to choose law enforcement for an occupation one day and then what? Are they a pig? If your job is to herd sheep, are you gonna herd goats? No.

Every occupation has bad people in it. When's the last time you seen a corrupt jr high janitor on CNN? Never! You know why? BC it don't make interesting news.

Another question....if someone is breaking into your house in the the middle of the night, are you not gonna call the police? the police that would also take a bullet to defend YOUR home, the same person that bad mouths them? I'm not saying there aren't bad police out there but there are also bad teachers, politicians, presidents, waitresses, ect.. I'm lucky to work with a lot of good people. You shouldn't judge things as a whole.

Theres a lot of LE out there that are hard core jeepers. I've been bringing more in to the jeep family in the recent weeks. It's pretty degrading to see people talk like this on here. It makes it very un motivating.
I'm a Police Officer too. I was going to write something similar. I go on duty in about an hour and feel refreshed about humanity. Man, I come to THIS SITE to get away from the scumbags. The fool above who calls us pigs would be the first to stop crying and have a little bitty smile when we're the first to respond to save their or their loved one's butt. Thanks for making my day, scumbag above.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:03 AM   #85
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Let me put it this way...The need for police is due to a simple fact of life. People are stupid and selfish. I would rather have a fear of being pulled over for speeding than a fear of dying because everyone is driving 90+ while drinking, texting, and doing drugs. This is where LEO's come in. They are there to "Protect and serve" Sadly, there are many scumbag LEO's. Let me remind you, there many scumbag doctors, nurses, business owners, politicians, Jeepers, and Reverends. Cops just get a bad rap because the are held to a higher standard than the rest. Be nice to the cops and they will be nice to you.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:09 AM   #86
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There is a lot of law enforcement on here! So, a question from an earlier comment.

Are you offended when called a COP? I do not think there is anything offensive about it. But I am not law enforcement.

Some say it means Constable on Patrol. Others say it is because of the copper badges and buttons worn by patrolmen in England and Philadelphia.

I would use the word in casual conversation with law enforcement, but not if I were pulled over.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:36 AM   #87
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I'm also in LE. I take no disrespect by the word Cop. In my 8 years on the only ones I see that do not like the term Cop are Troopers. They seem to only like to be called troopers. I use Cop in general conversation but use trooper, Sheriff, Officer when speaking professionally. It's like when Im talking to my Sgt or Captain in the office I may call them by their first name, but out on the streets due to respect I call them by rank and last name. some people need to relax more. Our profession is stressful enough to even worry about what I'm being called.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:50 AM   #88
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Well I guess I can't ever drive my TJ in PA, got 10.5 inch wide tires with 7 inch flares...
I bought my TJ in PA with 13.5 inch wide tires and 7 inch flares...Good thing I live in NJ.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:58 AM   #89
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I bought my TJ in PA with 13.5 inch wide tires and 7 inch flares...Good thing I live in NJ.
Like it's already been said, it's not a problem everywhere in PA. My tires stick out more than the OPs probably ever did, and I drive door-less very frequently. I also have a ~100 mile round trip commute for work, so when I take the Jeep on nice days I'm pretty much guaranteed to see at least 1 LEO, whether it be a town or state officer.

With that said, I've owned a Jeep for going on 4 years now (or maybe 5?) and I've yet to be pulled over. There is a very small minority of officers who will stop someone for even the most minor code violations (which in my opinion seem to be town/local police), and it seems the OP is unlucky enough to live near one. Now that I've said this I'll probably get stopped today on my way home, but so far I've never had an issue, nor has anyone in our club (all of which is in the same local area as the OP).

It's a shame the way things worked out though; hopefully this doesn't become a trend in the area.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:02 AM   #90
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A couple of examples............

0545 in the morning I was stopped for doing 52 in a 30 on a country road coming into a small town. I was in my Jeep with extremely dark tinted windows which are illegal. I rolled down my window and turned on my interior light and when the officer ask if I knew I was doing 52mph, I responded with yes and handed him my license. When he asked why, I said I was running late. He asked me to slow down and handed my license back.

Another situation, I was driving through a Federal Wildlife Management Area headed to the firing range to sight in a new muzzleloader. It happened to be bear season and got stopped 100 yards from the range by a Federal Game Warden. He seen a bottle of whiskey stuck in a boot under the backseat of the truck and I ended up with a $125.00 ticket.

Right or wrong in both situations, its a fact of life! Some have and use commen sense and some dont.

Let me add this.............I am in the Military, I used to be a LEO before I went back on active duty.

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