Well guys today is my big day in traffic court. For those who havent read the previous threads it for riding with my doors off here in pennsylvania. Wish me luck. Hearing is at 230pm.
I've only interacted with a few cops in my 42 years. I'd say all of them did their jobs the right way. If someone has interacted and had bad experiences with dozens I tend to think that explains itself.. Jeeps are meant to go door-less, topless, don't think that should be enforceable. JMHO
I've only interacted with a few cops in my 42 years. I'd say all of them did their jobs the right way. If someone has interacted and had bad experiences with dozens I tend to think that explains itself.. Jeeps are meant to go door-less, topless, don't think that should be enforceable. JMHO
I was thinking the same thing. If you have that much experience with the police your probably the problem. I base this assertion on experience as a former officer. Sucks you didn't win but I give you props for standing up for your beliefs.
Most LEO's deal with more crap on a daily basis than most should deal with in a lifetime. As far as the "real criminal" comment, by definition of this law the OP was a real criminal. Do I think he should have been cited? No. But the law was written in a way that even the judge who was sympathetic couldn't reverse the citation. You win some, you lose some. Now get out there and work to change that law so you don't have to pay another $110.
Ok how about this, CJ's were manufactured without doors at all, Doors were an option. So just convince Jeep to make doors a no cost option but still list them as an option. There problem solved. I think all the anger against law enforcement in this thread and in this country as a whole is because some (cops) due things everyday in their own life and give tickets to other people for doing the very same thing. Some officers act like because they enforce the law they don't have to abide by it. How many times have you seen a cop roll through a stop sign or doing 90 on the highway without his (or her) lights on. How about flipping on their lights so they don't have to stop at a red light. I'm not saying in any way that all cops are behaving this way, but a small minority are. Until all law enforcement lives by the laws that they enforce (even the little one's) we will continue to have this problem. And as for my Doorless solution, I have never been pulled over for this here in Maryland but I'm getting tube doors for next summer just to be on the safe side.
Question, seeing as you were warned for the doors, why not put the doors back on until you were able to get an interpretation of the law from a judge, then carry that as proof for the next time this trooper pulled you over for it and avoid this whole mess? I like riding topless and doorless as much as any jeeper, but when a cop warns you that your not in compliance with the law, your playing with fire trying to show him up.
Not saying what happened to you was right, but as you can tell, police can and will write you up for tedious BS when they feel your disrespecting them, it's sad but it's the country we live in, we give these jobs to power hungry people every once in a while. Hope you win your case.
Most Judges don't give "Advisory Opinions"..... Typically it takes this kind of landmark legal action for law to mature. I'm not sure of the outcome here but if the OP were to lose and take it to the next level he could make common law.
Im glad you might be one of the few good ones. To bad most are not like you. Manny earn the term I used every day they strap on there gun, badge, and attitude. Didn't mean to offend but I hate cops in general with a sick twisted passion as most are bad, while having a high apprecition for those that do it right. My favorite teacher in HS was a full time teacher/part time police officer. Amazing guy. Right now my interaction count is at 5 good cops to dozens of ones who are less then addiquate human beings
You keep fighting for the good ones and I'll keep hating every day that the bad ones give you guys a bad name. :thumb:
You my friend are a huge problem in today's society. I too am in law enforcement. Not your everyday street guy but it doesn't matter. I work plain clothes narcotics. I also struggle with guys I work with giving out tickets for stuff that I don't agree with but guess what...that's their job. ur brother, father, cousin, other close relative might decide to choose law enforcement for an occupation one day and then what? Are they a pig? If your job is to herd sheep, are you gonna herd goats? No.
Every occupation has bad people in it. When's the last time you seen a corrupt jr high janitor on CNN? Never! You know why? BC it don't make interesting news.
Another question....if someone is breaking into your house in the the middle of the night, are you not gonna call the Police? the Police that would also take a bullet to defend YOUR home, the same person that bad mouths them? I'm not saying there aren't bad police out there but there are also bad teachers, politicians, presidents, waitresses, ect.. I'm lucky to work with a lot of good people. You shouldn't judge things as a whole.
Theres a lot of LE out there that are hard core jeepers. I've been bringing more in to the jeep family in the recent weeks. It's pretty degrading to see people talk like this on here. It makes it very un motivating.
You my friend are a huge problem in today's society. I too am in law enforcement. Not your everyday street guy but it doesn't matter. I work plain clothes narcotics. I also struggle with guys I work with giving out tickets for stuff that I don't agree with but guess what...that's their job. ur brother, father, cousin, other close relative might decide to choose law enforcement for an occupation one day and then what? If your job is to herd sheep, are you gonna herd goats? No.
Every occupation has bad people in it. When's the last time you seen a corrupt jr high janitor on CNN? Never! You know why? BC it don't make interesting news.
Another question....if someone is breaking into your house in the the middle of the night, are you not gonna call the Police? the Police that would also take a bullet to defend YOUR home, the same person that bad mouths them? I'm not saying there aren't bad police out there but there are also bad teachers, politicians, presidents, waitresses, ect.. I'm lucky to work with a lot of good people. You shouldn't judge things as a whole.
Theres a lot of LE out there that are hard core jeepers. I've been bringing more in to the jeep family in the recent weeks. It's pretty degrading to see people talk like this on here. It makes it very un motivating.
Let me put it this way...The need for police is due to a simple fact of life. People are stupid and selfish. I would rather have a fear of being pulled over for speeding than a fear of dying because everyone is driving 90+ while drinking, texting, and doing drugs. This is where LEO's come in. They are there to "Protect and serve" Sadly, there are many scumbag LEO's. Let me remind you, there many scumbag doctors, nurses, business owners, politicians, Jeepers, and Reverends. Cops just get a bad rap because the are held to a higher standard than the rest. Be nice to the cops and they will be nice to you.
I'm also in LE. I take no disrespect by the word Cop. In my 8 years on the only ones I see that do not like the term Cop are Troopers. They seem to only like to be called troopers. I use Cop in general conversation but use trooper, Sheriff, Officer when speaking professionally. It's like when Im talking to my Sgt or Captain in the office I may call them by their first name, but out on the streets due to respect I call them by rank and last name. some people need to relax more. Our profession is stressful enough to even worry about what I'm being called.
0545 in the morning I was stopped for doing 52 in a 30 on a country road coming into a small town. I was in my Jeep with extremely dark tinted windows which are illegal. I rolled down my window and turned on my interior light and when the officer ask if I knew I was doing 52mph, I responded with yes and handed him my license. When he asked why, I said I was running late. He asked me to slow down and handed my license back.
Another situation, I was driving through a Federal Wildlife Management Area headed to the firing range to sight in a new muzzleloader. It happened to be bear season and got stopped 100 yards from the range by a Federal Game Warden. He seen a bottle of whiskey stuck in a boot under the backseat of the truck and I ended up with a $125.00 ticket.
Right or wrong in both situations, its a fact of life! Some have and use commen sense and some dont.
Let me add this.............I am in the Military, I used to be a LEO before I went back on active duty.
To serve and Protect..... (warrants and special interests). A state that takes any initiative to protect you from yourself is no good at all. Good luck with your situation. Whatever the outcome, it sounds like this guy has you singled out for some reason. I'd consider sending a FOIA request for a history of complaints against him, cell phone records during the times of your traffic stops, video footage from his car during your stops, etc. and file yourself a solid complaint against him. That's rediculous.
Edit: This isn't an LE-hating post... it's acknowledgement that their are bad apples in every group that need to be reigned in from time to time.
Man this thread pisses me off. I'm not a cop hater in any way, but stuff like this makes it tough to maintain that mindset.
Having said that, cops don't have to enforce stupid laws. I know for a fact that they have that discretion. I get the fishing for bad guys thing, but if you are just fishing, why write a BS ticket to someone who obviously isn't a bad guy. That cop pulled over the OP on 2 other ocassions, so he knew damn well the OP isn't a bad guy. That leaves only 2 reasons. Either the cop is just another asshole JBT, or it's revenue generation. Since we all know that revenue generation doesn't exist, it must be the asshole JBT thing.
As for the judge, if he really and truely thinks it's a BS law, he could have handled it differently. What he should have done was found you guilty of the infraction and imposed zero penalty. In that scenerio, everybody wins. And just maybe it would send a subtle message to the JBT that it's time to harass someone else, or at least find a legitimate reason to cite the OP.
As I posted in the OP's first thread. Here is a prime example of asshole politicians passing asshole laws that asshole cops are more than happy to enforce.
Welcome to America the land of the free, where everything is ilegal :banghead:
ETA......OP, I'd at least write a letter to you senators and representatives to let them they've ****ed up another law. Remind them that elections are coming and Americans are getting tired.
I recently got my TJ. Two days ago a city cop pulled me over, I had the doors off for the first time and was enjoying it. The officer walked around the Jeep admiring it and said " Just be sure that all paper and anything loose is secure, I'd hate to give you a ticket, drive safe and have a nice day" and left.
Cops are human too, they have good days, bad days..good days that turned to crap, you get the idea. I have friends who are cops, some of the stories you hear and they are nonchalant about them are messed up.
I guess what I'm saying is, if the officer asks you to put your doors on, put them on until you can get a clarification from DMV or a Judge. The officer that just pulled you over may have just left a Domestic Disturbance with a crazed jealous wife with a tube of super glue and a dull butter knife (story a friend told me).
I don't see how he officer is a jerk, "pig", or whatever else people have posted here....he gave you 2 warning!!! Most would only give you 1!!! Again I don agree with the citation but it wasn't like you were not warned. As for all the police haters even I you don't like them they are willing to put THEIR life on the line to protect you and your family!!!! This forum is getting so far off topic as of late that its not a place to come anymore to get away from the worlds non sense...sad. Just my opinion which isn't worth much anyway!
I don't see how he officer is a jerk, "pig", or whatever else people have posted here....he gave you 2 warning!!! Most would only give you 1!!! Again I don agree with the citation but it wasn't like you were not warned. As for all the police haters even I you don't like them they are willing to put THEIR life on the line to protect you and your family!!!! This forum is getting so far off topic as of late that its not a place to come anymore to get away from the worlds non sense...sad. Just my opinion which isn't worth much anyway!
In this scenerio, the cop is just one bent spoke in the whole screwed up wheel. It's about common sense and our government left the plantation a long time ago. Try this, Google stupid or strange laws. You'll get a metric shit ton of stupid ass laws that are ignored every single day. Police have the ability(and duty in my opinion) to use discretion when dealing with the public in order to keep their trust.
Here's one for example. "In Pueblo, Colorado, it is illegal to let a dandelion grow within city limits."
Now, if you lived in Pueblo and you got a ticket for allowing a dandy lion to grow in your lawn, how would you feel? Would you bitch about how unfair and stupid it is, or would you happily pay the fine? You did afterall break the law.
Maybe we should start enforcing this one. "Putting salt on a railroad track can be punishable by death in the state of Alabama."
As for your second comment, I don't think it's off topic. He was in his jeep after all. Besides, you can only have so many threads about Rough Country lifts or how to properly wire fog lights. Some of us like to discuss other topics now and then. For the most part, this place is as dry as burnt toast. I for one, welcome threads like this.
I only wish police officers were as respectful as they used to. Where I'm from, the only things cops re good for is for handing out parking tickets and giving teenagers summonses for being on the beach after dark. Yet they wouldn't dare go in the bad parts of town where there are people that will shoot back at them or vandalize their squad car. As far I as I see, they care more about their quota, and not so much protecting the people
Been to both, Cali won me on beaches (only because I didn't go see Texas beaches) other than that, Texas wins between the 2, overall it's Alaska then Colorado THEN texas
Colorado is where it's at! I've been all over this wonderful nation and I have and will always call Colorado my home. 4 seasons to offer a different test to our beloved Jeeps.
I think that this has been blown out of proportion. LE is a job that offers little compensation but has a lot risk involved. There are "bad apples" in every type of job because there are "bad apples" in the human race. The officer was doing his job warned and then cited seems fair, I don't agree with the law. I have to follow rules at work that I don't agree with everyday. If it is more important that the law is corrected do something about it or move to somewhere where it doesn't exist.
Been to both, Cali won me on beaches (only because I didn't go see Texas beaches) other than that, Texas wins between the 2, overall it's Alaska then Colorado THEN texas
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