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Old 03-01-2011, 06:26 PM   #1
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Angry bled brake a dozen times and pedal still goes to the floor

I just installed a 4 inch lift and added steel braided brake lines. the kit is Rc if that matters.

My mechanic and I have tried every type of bleeding and still the pedal goes straight to the floor with no resistance. if i pump them a bunch it will stiffen up, but only for a couple seconds and its back to the floor.

the brakes worked just fine b4 the install and the vehicle just turned 50k miles so i dont think its the master cylinder. I think the lines are on wrong, but my tech keeps telling me there is only one way for them to go on.

also, there is no leaking anywhere, the only time i have to refill the resivoir is after the tech spills the fluid while bleeding the calipers.

PLEASE HELP I CANT TEST DRIVE MY NEW LIFT!!!

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Old 03-01-2011, 06:48 PM   #2
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Have you had the brake calipers completely off? If so, you got them swapped left for right which means they cannot be bled properly because the bleed screw is too low if they get swapped.

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Old 03-01-2011, 06:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Have you had the brake calipers completely off? If so, you got them swapped left for right which means they cannot be bled properly because the bleed screw is too low if they get swapped.
I was a victim of this
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:00 PM   #4
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no the calipers were still on the disc. the mechanic is telling me he things the master cylinder took a sh*t, but i think i would have noticed some brake fade or some signs before hand.

on friday the brakes were fine. on saturday and sunday we installed the kit and new lines. today i finally get a chance to test drive and no brakes.

i think that the lines are not hooked correctly where the new line meets the caliper. the tech says only one way to hook em up but i see another way and the fitting on the line does not look very flush with the caliper (where it mounts)
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:05 PM   #5
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I think you found the problem.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:25 PM   #6
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Did you get air back in in MC? It took me a couple years before I finally decided to bite the bullet and bench bleed the MC on my '81 Cherokee. Had front brakes but poor rear. What a difference...
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:36 PM   #7
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ok i just marked the bolt that has the hole for fluid to flow through. I marked it to see if it would line up with the hole in the line fitting. when i re installed the way my tech had it, it DID NOT LINE UP!

so now i'm trying to figure out how it installs correctly. i love how mechanics all blame another part and say something else is bad before saying they did something wrong
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:05 PM   #8
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If that isn't it, it could be the MC bit the dust.

When you changed the lines you bled them. The MC's piston pushes the collected trash, rust, and dirt to the end of the cylinder - that's normal.
Normally the piston doesn't go all the way down into that trash. When you bled them, you probably pushed the pedal all the way down - into that trash. It tears the cups, rendering them useless.

It's not an unusual problem.

Replace or rebuild the MC is the only cure.

Hopefully that's not the case.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:47 PM   #9
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thank you. i just re installed the lines with the holes in (bolt/line) aligning. hopefully im good now. i'll let you guys know if its the master cylinder

thanks for all yoru help
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:54 PM   #10
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Master cylinder. Has my vote.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:46 PM   #11
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Master cylinder. Has my vote.

Just replaced master cylinder and its doing the same sh*t. im starting to get pissed and think i should should just take it to someone.

how much should i have to bleed them? whatever is wrong has something to do with what me and the mechanic are doing.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:47 PM   #12
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It could be the way you are bleeding them.
Have your helper push the pedal down WITHOUT PUMPING IT FIRST!

Pumping it turns the trapped air into foam, and bleeding won't get foam out. As an example, try washing foam soap bubbles down the sink - you almost have to wait till all the bubbles pop.

Just have him push a steady push till it's on the floor. Close the bleeder valve, then he releases the pedal up and repeat.

Let us know.

Many "mechanics?" do it wrong too. Then they tell you it has to be pressure bled.
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:01 PM   #13
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A power bleeder works wonders! I always had trouble with the wife ( or anybody else for that matter ) working the peddle while I was bleeding at the calipers or wheel cylinder. Hard to stay together. I found a power bleeder will help get all the air out. Worked for me.
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:09 PM   #14
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You yell "push" she pushes.
When the pedal is all the way down she yells "to the floor."
You close the valve while she holds it down.
Once the valve is closed you yell "do it again," she lets the pedal up, waits 3 seconds, then pushes again - She yells "pushing."

You open the valve - air comes out.
When the pedal gets to the floor she yells "to the floor" again.
Repeat!

The first few pushes the pedal feels like it's doing nothing - opening the valve only gets air. After a few pushes (but not pumping it) it'll start getting a little harder.

It could take 10 or 12 pushes on each cylinder - maybe more - many folks don't do it that long. They get a few bubbles and quit. You have to be persistent.

DO NOT PUMP THE PEDAL AND MAKE FOAM!

We used to get several cars a month where it was improperly bled, all it took was doing it right. We very seldom used the pressure bleeder, didn't need it. It was handy to have if you didn't have a helper.

BTW - brake fluid washes off the concrete and the undercarriage with a flood of water. It's hygroscopic.
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:21 PM   #15
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I have a very simple little device I've had for years. It consists of a clear plastic hose that connects to the bleeder valve. It has an in-line check valve. You put the end of the outlet hose into a container to catch the bled fluid. Only takes one person. put it on the furthest brake bleeder, crack open the bleeder valve, go and pump the brake pedal a couple of times check for clear fluid and no bubbles in the line to the check valve. Tighten bleeder, move to next closest and repeat. Keep checking master fluid level and top of as you go so it does not run dry (or you start all over again). Alwasy ease and always works.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:24 PM   #16
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rrich I am laughing my a@@ off!!! The problem is " Was I supposed to let it back up already?" I'm with you on the bleeding, Ive probbably done 10 or more complete brake systems, just I got tired of pumping and went with the power bleeder. Still laughing!!!
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:43 PM   #17
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rich's version was short because he deleted the extra conversation: "Is it down?" :I pushed it, did you hold it down? No I let off. Push it down and hold it.... With my hand? NO with your foot. HOW am I supposed to hold it with my foot? Step on it honey... step on what? Step on the Brake: I stepped on the brake, are you holding it? NO I stepped on it....
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:21 PM   #18
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so, i'm embarrased to admit this, but maybe this will help someone in the future. i was the chump pumping the btrake in the car, trusting that the other guy was properly bleeding the brakes.

turns out that he was bleeding the fronts from the bottom bolt on the caliper because he was afraid to put a wrench on the bleeder nipple because it may break.

once i got under there we bled them properly and moved on.

lesson. BLEED FROM THE BLEEDER. i wanted to throw a wrench at him. apparently whatever he was doing (supposedly) works on other calipers. who knows. all i know is im starting to look like a true goober on here.

i will give him props, the rest of the lift install came out great. of course i was supervising and assuring that the "extra" nuts and bolts got put to their proper use.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:53 PM   #19
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man ive been doing this for 2 weeks now. I got a locked up caliper frrom mudding so i went got a new one at orielys for 20 bucks after the core charge. I replaced the passenger side caliper for same reasons two weeks before so i know what i was doin. this time i can get the pedal to get so stiff when the jeep is off. but as soon as it cranks it goes to the floor with no pressure at all. i have bled for hours, like 5 bottles of fluid. But i have been doing it the way yall said not to and pushing it out in foam form , the foam has been coming out though then runs clear.

Gonna try it yalls way tonight. and try to hit the trails again this weekend.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:10 PM   #20
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Could you have possibly reversed the left and right calipers? Doing that will make it impossible to ever get them bled properly because the bleed hole will be too low to let the air out.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
Could you have possibly reversed the left and right calipers? Doing that will make it impossible to ever get them bled properly because the bleed hole will be too low to let the air out.
I did that on a CJ7 one time and you're right, I never could get the brakes bled.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:28 PM   #22
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Ga Noob it could be they sold you the wrong one or wrong side. As Jerry said it's easy to put the wrong one on and in your case it could be the part you have is for the opposite side.
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Old 04-08-2011, 04:48 PM   #23
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didnt get a chance to fool with it last night. okay so i replaced the passenger side and everything was good so i know that one is right. now im going to go home and just make sure the bleeder on the driver side is at the same position on the other side if it differs i will take it back. i already turned in the core so i hope they dont give me any crap.

okay so now looking at the reciepts now its the same part number. for each one and show a different numbers online for the two.

now i got to take it back off reinstall the new one and bleed em again.



But thanks to you guys i think i got it figured out. It sounds dumb but i never would have thought of that.
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Old 04-08-2011, 04:50 PM   #24
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Glad that was all it was. Have Fun
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:27 AM   #25
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Got it fixed saturday morning i took the caliper back to orielys to swap it and the guy wants to give me trouble over how rusted it was already. I was like man it swat in a driveway and got rained on like 3 times in 2 weeks. I eventually told him im not trying to screw you over man i just want the right part, and then he swapped them out for me. Bled the wheel twice and was back in action.

Thanks you guys i would have still been trying to bleed that caliper lmao
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:44 PM   #26
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pedal still goes to floor

Jerry,

How can you tell the right caliper from the left? P/N or are they marked some other way? I bought rebuilts. Where should the bleed screw be oriented if I have them on correctly? Thank you.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:43 PM   #27
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I am having this same problem, also my Parking brake light is on even though it is off. The first time I bled my brakes the parking brake was on. Also my front end is higher then the back end does that matter. Any help? thanks.

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