Brake rotor issue: - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 03-16-2009, 03:16 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
daanbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Palm Beach Fl.
Posts: 815
Images: 2
Brake rotor issue:

This may help or not, But I figure I might not be the only one with an issue like this. When I bought my jeep last sunday, the women showed me the paper work that showed she bought 4 new tires and front brakes done about 248 miles ago. When I took it for a drive everything was perfect. Then on the way home on I-95 while doing 55-65 I had to break fast, The whole front end shook and the steering wheel vibrated. At first I thought bearings. I checked out everything. I even stoped with just the emergency brakes. I isolated it to the front rotors. When I took the tires off this morning I found new pads but old rotors, AND THEY WERE NOT CUT! So i went to advance auto and bought two new rotors. I went and put them on. While tighting the lugs, I realized the wheel was stiffing up with every turn. When both wheels were done I went to test drive it. The front wheels were locked up!! I jacked everything up again, But this time could not break the lock lug nut. Had to go to lowes and by a impact wrench! After getting the wheels off. I found the new rotors were 1/4 inch higher then the originals. As i tightened the wheels they pinched the back of the hub/plate. I went and returned them. As we looked up on the computer for other ones-all rotors for 97-2004 were the same model/item #'s They were all 1/4 inch higher! Now im thinking about getting spacers for the rotors just to make them work.! At this point the manager comes over and put's in 2000 jeep cherokee. He then goes and gets the rotor= Perfect fit!!!! So the wrangler use's cherokee rotors. He said chrysler is famous for messing up item numbers and switching them around. I figure if someone else is out there with a 2000 TJ and is doing a front brake job, this info may be helpfull. This may be the reason why the rotors were not done originally a couple weeks ago when the women owed it. They might have had the same issue, and just put the originals back on and told her they did it. Figuring that she would never look to see.

daanbc is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 03:42 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
DontTellMeAboutCajun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gray, LA
Posts: 167
Strange...just replaced the front left rotor on my '97 SE with one from Advance with no probs. Hope it was just a localized problem, i.e. someone dumb-thumbed the part number on the computer in that store.

DontTellMeAboutCajun is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 03:45 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
Atthehop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW, NJ
Posts: 3,938
Where was the work done so we know where NOT to go and get ripped off.
__________________
Retired my 94 YJ 4cyl 5spd @ 200K
Now in a 04 TJ 4cyl 5spd CV @120K+
Both as a commuter vehicle in NW, NJ
April 2012.downsized and now a 99er.
Atthehop is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 03:47 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
nicolas-eric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 5,892
Send a message via ICQ to nicolas-eric Send a message via AIM to nicolas-eric Send a message via MSN to nicolas-eric Send a message via Yahoo to nicolas-eric
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontTellMeAboutCajun View Post
...just replaced the front left rotor...
always change both rotors and brake pads at the same time.
a friend says that you lear that in oe of the first lessons during the career training when you want to become a professional car mechanic.
nicolas-eric is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 04:35 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
DontTellMeAboutCajun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gray, LA
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolas-eric View Post
always change both rotors and brake pads at the same time.
a friend says that you lear that in oe of the first lessons during the career training when you want to become a professional car mechanic.

No need to fix if it ain't broke, otherwise they'd sell rotors as a pair
Front left rotor was destroyed by previous owner (among other things), front right was fine. New pads for both front sides!
DontTellMeAboutCajun is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 06:20 PM   #6
IITYWTMWYBMAB

WF Supporting Member
::WF Administrator::
 
4Jeepn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 10,268
Images: 5
There where two different style of rotors used on TJ's composite and cast. Get the wrong one and as noted go no place. I think the years mentioned above might be off a bit as well.
__________________
79.96.85.00.01.97.00.97.93.97.95.94
CJ.XJ.CJ. TJ. TJ.ZJ. TJ.TJ. ZJ.ZJ.YJ. XJ
4Jeepn is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 06:25 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
jpdocdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: beach park, il
Posts: 8,162
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolas-eric View Post
always change both rotors and brake pads at the same time.
a friend says that you lear that in oe of the first lessons during the career training when you want to become a professional car mechanic.
this is true. you need two new surfaces whenever something is replaced on disc brakes. either machining or replacing both rotors when new pads are installed.

the two blends of metal are exchanged throughout the life of brakes. the rotor has deposits from the pads wearing. you do not want to put new pads on old rotors without renewing the surface. also the differences in thickness from replacing just one can be problematic. rotors are measured to the thousandth of an inch. so one rotor is worn and probably under spec, and the other is new.

did you mic the rotor that was kept?

back to the original post. they blame chrysler, but its actually their company's cataloging. and that does happen all the time. part numbers can get screwed up in the aftermarket. frustrating, but always think of that first.
__________________
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president."
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data...re_cowbell.gif
jpdocdave is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 06:49 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
DontTellMeAboutCajun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gray, LA
Posts: 167
I won't argue the wiser, it's just that I've always changed brake pads without replacing/machining the rotors and never had a problem. That may sound amateur, but I've never heard or seen anyone else do it either. Learn something new everyday though
DontTellMeAboutCajun is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 07:11 PM   #9
Jeeper
 
nicolas-eric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 5,892
Send a message via ICQ to nicolas-eric Send a message via AIM to nicolas-eric Send a message via MSN to nicolas-eric Send a message via Yahoo to nicolas-eric
Btw in 1999/2000 they changed to bigger front rotors. Some 1999/2000 have the old ones, the other have the bigger newer ones. That´s why the Jeep dealer always asks for the VIN to find the right rotor for your TJ.
nicolas-eric is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 07:16 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
1HOTV2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NorCal
Posts: 32
If you read the manual for the Wrangler it tells you that there was a rotor change mid year 1999. The earlier rotors were the slightly larger ones.
1HOTV2 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 09:39 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
jpdocdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: beach park, il
Posts: 8,162
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontTellMeAboutCajun View Post
I won't argue the wiser, it's just that I've always changed brake pads without replacing/machining the rotors and never had a problem. That may sound amateur, but I've never heard or seen anyone else do it either. Learn something new everyday though
ya, many people say the same. it isn't "right" but that doesn't mean you haven't gotten away with it. you will have longer braking distance that you really wouldn't notice. but thats all it means, there's the correct way and then there's ways to cheat. some get away with cheating, i personally get to fix it when people try to cheat, and charge them all that money they tried to save when it goes wrong
__________________
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president."
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data...re_cowbell.gif
jpdocdave is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-16-2009, 10:23 PM   #12
Jeeper
 
daanbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Palm Beach Fl.
Posts: 815
Images: 2
It didn't matter weather they were composite or cast. They were both the same size/way in every measurment. I could understand the 99/00 changing of the rotors. Since the cherokee rotors are 1/4 inch thinner in diameter then the one's that was called for. I probably have an early 00. Anyways i thought it might help somebody out there.
daanbc is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-20-2009, 12:15 AM   #13
Newb
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3
i had this problem too a few years ago on my 2002 TJ funny thing is i went back to advance auto and we sat there looking at rubicon, cherokee, x series , you name it .. when all was said and done i got the rotors with a part number that were supposed to be used on the 2005-2006 rubicon.. haha i keep that part number handy .. ugh next up push button starter for my tj.. tore up the igntion lock cylendar.. tired of dealing with it .. now i get to play with rewiring it to a push buttin setup
dpoke65 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-20-2009, 06:47 AM   #14
Jeeper
 
daanbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Palm Beach Fl.
Posts: 815
Images: 2
Let us know how that plays out. Push button is nice. But in my neck of the woods, that'll make it to easy for them to steal.
daanbc is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 06-29-2009, 09:07 AM   #15
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1
My exact problem, Thanks now I know I'm not crazy
brashear52 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 06-29-2009, 10:00 AM   #16
Jeeper
 
Loic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LAS VEGAS
Posts: 794
I just bought 2 new rotors from Autozone, no problems, the brand is duralast something . like $45 each
Loic is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-04-2010, 11:43 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
YAHAHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by daanbc View Post
Let us know how that plays out. Push button is nice. But in my neck of the woods, that'll make it to easy for them to steal.
That's why you mount the push button in the locking center console or the locking glove box. Use your key to open it and then you can push the button. Not a perfect solution but a solution none the less.
YAHAHA is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-13-2012, 07:49 PM   #18
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1
Just had the same experience, Glad I read this post !!!!!!! 2000 cherokee worked perfect on my 1999 wrangler. I just bought it with known brake issues and the guy said he just had them replaced but they still made a lot of noise. The problem was the bigger rotors were rubbing on the dust cover as the correct rotor is about a 1/4" less deep
thanks again for posting this answer!!!!!!!
cobia265 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-13-2012, 09:25 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
UnlimitedLJ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,628
the rotor & unit bearing change was in mid-99. 97-early 99 = early style rotors & unit bearings. late 99-06 = late style rotors & unit bearings.

Most autoparts store databases are incorrect from 1999 to 2000. The best thing to do is determine what style you have before starting work. Once you learn exactly what style you have, order parts for a 1997 if it's early style, or 2002 if it's late style.


early style on the left, late style on the right.

that difference in the rotor hat depth is what causes the problem. you need to match the style of unit bearing and rotor in order to put the position of the rotor inside the caliper correct.
UnlimitedLJ04 is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-13-2012, 11:03 PM   #20
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontTellMeAboutCajun View Post
No need to fix if it ain't broke, otherwise they'd sell rotors as a pair
Front left rotor was destroyed by previous owner (among other things), front right was fine. New pads for both front sides!
You are correct, don't fix it if it ain't broke, but if you don't fix it right, it's still broke, ain't it?

While your advice seems to make sense on the surface, I can easily send you a pair of rotors that you will never make the vehicle brake straight with no matter what you do. Rotor metallurgy does make a difference in how the rotor performs and getting them both to work together when they are of unknown origins is a crapshoot at best.

Not to mention that they break in at different rates, some are more prone to DTV, others are less aggressive when it comes to grip, and the surface finish may not be the same. Far too many variables to achieve a predictable outcome and I'd venture the reason rotors aren't sold in pairs is the box gets too heavy to carry around and not much else.

For the record though, Black Label used to sell their rotors in pairs in very nice plastic packaging and depending on the application, were not much fun to lug around.

You are welcome to do it however you like, I'll still do it the most predictable way and swap rotors and pads in pairs and full sets.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-13-2012, 11:07 PM   #21
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Delaware
Posts: 178
With the wheel off, it looks to me the easiest way would be to measure the stud length..
UnlimitedLJ04, could you measure and post the stud lengths?

This may help someone in the future who is looking to figure it out.....
Hammond_Egger is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-13-2012, 11:13 PM   #22
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by daanbc View Post
This may help or not, But I figure I might not be the only one with an issue like this. When I bought my jeep last sunday, the women showed me the paper work that showed she bought 4 new tires and front brakes done about 248 miles ago. When I took it for a drive everything was perfect. Then on the way home on I-95 while doing 55-65 I had to break fast, The whole front end shook and the steering wheel vibrated. At first I thought bearings. I checked out everything. I even stoped with just the emergency brakes. I isolated it to the front rotors. When I took the tires off this morning I found new pads but old rotors, AND THEY WERE NOT CUT! So i went to advance auto and bought two new rotors. I went and put them on. While tighting the lugs, I realized the wheel was stiffing up with every turn. When both wheels were done I went to test drive it. The front wheels were locked up!! I jacked everything up again, But this time could not break the lock lug nut. Had to go to lowes and by a impact wrench! After getting the wheels off. I found the new rotors were 1/4 inch higher then the originals. As i tightened the wheels they pinched the back of the hub/plate. I went and returned them. As we looked up on the computer for other ones-all rotors for 97-2004 were the same model/item #'s They were all 1/4 inch higher! Now im thinking about getting spacers for the rotors just to make them work.! At this point the manager comes over and put's in 2000 jeep cherokee. He then goes and gets the rotor= Perfect fit!!!! So the wrangler use's cherokee rotors. He said chrysler is famous for messing up item numbers and switching them around. I figure if someone else is out there with a 2000 TJ and is doing a front brake job, this info may be helpfull. This may be the reason why the rotors were not done originally a couple weeks ago when the women owed it. They might have had the same issue, and just put the originals back on and told her they did it. Figuring that she would never look to see.
As has been stated, your parts store is blaming the wrong thing. A quality store knows that there was a change sometime in 99 and I've seen it vary too much in that year to try and nail down exactly when. But, the TJ originally came with composite rotors with the thin steel hats. There were a lot of problems with them, so they went to full cast, but that messed up the wheel registration because the hats are much thicker.

If you look at the pics above, you can see the much thinner shoulder for the rotor next to the WMS and then the later unitbearing has the same amount of pilot for the rim, plus the additional height for the thicker hat.

By going to a full cast rotor, that meant the advertised track width was no longer accurate, so the made a new unitbearing that is shorter from the face of the knuckle to the inside of the rotor hat which means the rotor has to also be shorter in height. The difference in height on the bearings is exactly the difference in thickness between the thin steel rotor hat and the thicker full cast hat.

For anyone who is uncertain what rotor they have, DO NOT measure the overall height. Only measure the inside dimension of the rotor face to inside of hat. That's the only difference that matters.

Also, ALL TJ rotors are the same diameter. Some are taller, some are shorter, but they are all the same diameter and thickness.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-13-2012, 11:17 PM   #23
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammond_Egger View Post
With the wheel off, it looks to me the easiest way would be to measure the stud length..
UnlimitedLJ04, could you measure and post the stud lengths?

This may help someone in the future who is looking to figure it out.....
That only works if someone has not changed the wheel studs. The easier way is to measure how much of the wheel pilot sticks out of the rotor and only then if they are not composite rotors. If they are composite, both will have the same amount of wheel pilot.

Best way is to pop off the rotor and measure inside depth of the hat to the outside face of the rotor.

Here's why. Most stores give an overall height and try to match them up that way. The later full cast rotor which is shorter than the earlier full cast has about the same overall height as the earlier composite due to the thinner hat on the taller composite rotor.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-13-2012, 11:22 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
Also, ALL TJ rotors are the same diameter. Some are taller, some are shorter, but they are all the same diameter and thickness.
ALL TJ rotors are not the same diameter. Nor are they all the same thickness.
tangofox007 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-13-2012, 11:56 PM   #25
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
ALL TJ rotors are not the same diameter. Nor are they all the same thickness.
If you're tossing the rear rotors in there, then you are correct. The front and rear rotors are not the same diameter and thickness.

That said, all TJ rear rotors are the same diameter and thickness and both front versions of the TJ rotor are the same diameter and thickness.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-14-2012, 09:41 AM   #26
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
If you're tossing the rear rotors in there...
Is there a reasonable definition of "ALL" that would exclude the rear rotors?
tangofox007 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-14-2012, 10:23 AM   #27
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Is there a reasonable definition of "ALL" that would exclude the rear rotors?
All TJ OEM front rotors as they came from the factory are the same size exactly with regard to the diameter and thickness for years 97-06 in all trim models including but not limited to the TJ, SE, Sport, X, Rubicon, Unlimited, Sahara, Rubicon Sahara, Rocky Mountain Edition, Willy's Edition, and the Rubicon Sahara Unlimited.

If you go to Rock Auto and drill down to the various models, you will find that 97-99 uses the 120.67022 rotor and the later versions are 120.67045. This is the later version-



This is the earlier version and you'll have to do the math and account for some rounding. I did the first one above for you and it works out to 11.0236" in diameter.



The same rotor diameter and thickness from the OEM is also used for the YJ back to 89, the XJ 90-99 when they switched to the 67045, the MJ 90-92, and the ZJ 93-98.

All of that info is readily available if you need more. At Rock Auto, if you find a part and click on the number, it will bring up a buyer's guide which you can use to compare.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-14-2012, 10:41 AM   #28
Jeeper
 
UnlimitedLJ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammond_Egger View Post
UnlimitedLJ04, could you measure and post the stud lengths?
nope. that pic is old and those hubs are long gone.

the info mrblaine provided above is what you need.

UnlimitedLJ04 is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brake Squeak? lap49X TJ Tech Forum 8 08-31-2013 08:25 PM
oh where oh where did my brake lights go? 97REDTJ YJ Tech Forum 5 05-29-2010 08:37 PM
Rear Brake Line ???s nicolas-eric TJ Tech Forum 14 03-10-2009 01:25 AM
Brake lights yelir49 TJ General Discussion Forum 7 12-03-2007 10:11 AM
Brake issue britton YJ Tech Forum 6 09-05-2007 01:07 PM



Download our Mobile App

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC