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Old 08-28-2012, 10:28 AM   #1
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Brakes locking up.

Ok I recently replaced a left rear wheel cylinder and the brake line going to that wheel and then bled the brakes (two person pump pedal n hold while other opens bleed valve).
Now my brakes are working great, but almost too great. They seem to lock up the front wheels way too easily. The stopping power is really good, but if I get on em, instack lockup ensues. It's a 98 TJ SE without ABS. Now on dry pavement, its easy to manage without lockup, on wet pavement its all I can do to keep it from sliding everytime I touch the brake pedal. I have to, brake-release-downshift-brake-release and so on. A couple of times I didn't think I was going to get it stopped in time due to having to release the brakes to get it stopped from sliding due to lockup. I have since started driving slower and stopping much sooner than normal just to avoid an accident. Is there anything I can do to get the brakes not to lock up so easily?

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Old 08-28-2012, 12:19 PM   #2
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Bump to top, so many threads on here, its getting lost. Really need some input.

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Old 08-28-2012, 12:20 PM   #3
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If for no other reason than it was the last thing touched, the first thing I'd check is the adjustment of the rear shoes on the left, the adjuster (making sure it's on in the correct direction), the brake hardware, etc. Also, did you bleed at all 4 corners or just on the left rear? Next thing I'd check would be the right side rear - I usually just replace wheel cyl.s in pairs...if one's going, the other's probably not too far behind. After double checking the rear, I'd start looking up front for sticky calipers or some such sillyness. Hope you find the issue - I know mine was total crap in the rain (mine was totally a tire issue - bald as hell MTRs), so I feel your pain on how sketchy it feels to be sliding around.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewG
If for no other reason than it was the last thing touched, the first thing I'd check is the adjustment of the rear shoes on the left, the adjuster (making sure it's on in the correct direction), the brake hardware, etc. Also, did you bleed at all 4 corners or just on the left rear? Next thing I'd check would be the right side rear - I usually just replace wheel cyl.s in pairs...if one's going, the other's probably not too far behind. After double checking the rear, I'd start looking up front for sticky calipers or some such sillyness. Hope you find the issue - I know mine was total crap in the rain (mine was totally a tire issue - bald as hell MTRs), so I feel your pain on how sketchy it feels to be sliding around.
Bled both sides of rear didn't mess with front. Only the fronts are locking up.
Forgot to mention it was about three months ago put new rotors and pads on front. They have been working as normal till a couple of days after the rear cylinder and brakeline swap last week.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:43 PM   #5
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I was just sayin' where I would start...if you're absolutely positive about the rears being right, I'd start looking at the front calipers - make sure the sliders are well lubed and slide easily and make sure the piston pushes in - that's where I'd go next. And while you're there, if you can find a buddy to help you bleed the fronts, that wouldn't be the worst thing, either.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:53 PM   #6
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Do you have a manual for instructions?
You might have a problem with the porportioning valve.

Try bleeding all the wheels following the directions in the manual.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewG
I was just sayin' where I would start...if you're absolutely positive about the rears being right, I'd start looking at the front calipers - make sure the sliders are well lubed and slide easily and make sure the piston pushes in - that's where I'd go next. And while you're there, if you can find a buddy to help you bleed the fronts, that wouldn't be the worst thing, either.
Thanks, its somewhere to start. Wierd the fronts don't seem to be sticking. They only lock up when I'm pressing em fairly hard. As soon as I let off the pedal it immediately ends the lockup. Will try bleeding fronts first.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:37 PM   #8
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Contamination of the front brakes by something that can certainly cause them to lockup. Overfilled front diff throwing oil onto the rotors? Time to pull the front tires and start looking.

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Old 08-28-2012, 04:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshaws21 View Post
Ok I recently replaced a left rear wheel cylinder and the brake line going to that wheel and then bled the brakes (two person pump pedal n hold while other opens bleed valve).
Now my brakes are working great, but almost too great. They seem to lock up the front wheels way too easily. The stopping power is really good, but if I get on em, instack lockup ensues. It's a 98 TJ SE without ABS. Now on dry pavement, its easy to manage without lockup, on wet pavement its all I can do to keep it from sliding everytime I touch the brake pedal. I have to, brake-release-downshift-brake-release and so on. A couple of times I didn't think I was going to get it stopped in time due to having to release the brakes to get it stopped from sliding due to lockup. I have since started driving slower and stopping much sooner than normal just to avoid an accident. Is there anything I can do to get the brakes not to lock up so easily?
You are likely fighting a rust issue that will go away.

There is no proportioning to the front. It's straight through the master through the combo valve to the brake calipers.

Bleeding won't make them lock up less, if you have air in there, that will make them lock up less and bleeding will make them lock up more.

The rear swap, adjust and bleed brought your pedal height back up which there is nothing wrong with.

It won't hurt to inspect the fronts to make sure the guide pins are good, the divots aren't too deep and everything is up to snuff.

If you don't find anything obvious, the next time you find yourself in rainy weather with wet streets, take a peek at the rotors and see if they are rusted before you drive it.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #10
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The front rotors and pads were replaced with NEW stuff just a few months ago. The lockup issue just started last week. Yeah there could be something going on up front but rust of rotors isn't it.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:36 PM   #11
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Did you adjust the rear brakes after taking them apart? The shoes should have slight contact with the drum...you'll hear them drag as you spin the drum or wheel if it's on. There's a rubber plug on the backing plate that you remove and make adjustments through. Don't buy that stupid tool they sell just use a flathead.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeVeReDiStOrTiOn
Did you adjust the rear brakes after taking them apart? The shoes should have slight contact with the drum...you'll hear them drag as you spin the drum or wheel if it's on. There's a rubber plug on the backing plate that you remove and make adjustments through. Don't buy that stupid tool they sell just use a flathead.
Actually no, but its just the front locking up.
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:52 AM   #13
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The front rotors and pads were replaced with NEW stuff just a few months ago. The lockup issue just started last week. Yeah there could be something going on up front but rust of rotors isn't it.
Rotors rust within a few minutes as they dry. If yours are doing it a bit excessively due to their composition, the rust as it's being wiped off the rotor face will build up on the pad surface and change the coefficient of friction until it's gone.

Rust on the pads plus a freshly rusted swept area will lead to touchy brakes until they get themselves cleaned again.

So, before you start telling me what it isn't, why don't you go check them like I asked you to and let us know what you see so we can be of more help?
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:43 PM   #14
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No rust, rotors look really good.
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:56 PM   #15
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No rust, rotors look really good.
No rust now, but your complaint was lock-up on wet streets which implies precipitation of some kind.

Are they touchy now and are the streets wet or dry?

They need to be checked right before you drive it when the streets are wet.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes

No rust now, but your complaint was lock-up on wet streets which implies precipitation of some kind.

Are they touchy now and are the streets wet or dry?

They need to be checked right before you drive it when the streets are wet.
I meant its much worse on wet pavement. If I'm not careful, the fronts lockup on absolutely dry haven't seen rain in days pavement as well. Too much brake pedal, even when braking under seemingly full control will induce lockup.

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