Can Someone Show Me How To Do The Free Air Intake Mod On My '99 TJ? - Page 2 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:25 PM   #31
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I happen to agree with about 99% of the people here about K&N filters.
What do my shocks have to do with gimmick air filters? And no, my shock absorbers don't have knobs.

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Old 03-28-2013, 11:29 PM   #32
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That's fine you keep running your paper filter but let people give opinions on what they think might be better or not better what made you the end all be all
I looked for a period in your run-on post, but I couldn't find one. Quite the little 'tude you have going there.

Anyway, people are voicing their opinions, and yours is in the vast minority.

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Old 03-28-2013, 11:41 PM   #33
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I get a little irritated when people try to shut down others opinions. This is a forum for discussion to possibly learn from each other not to try and prove the other guy wrong. Lets just agree to disagree.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:48 PM   #34
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What was with the shock absorber comment? I'm not sure where that fits in here.
FWIW, in my OPINION, Rancho 9000's with the little knob are great shock absorbers. My Rancho's don't have knobs, but they're really shiny.

And I run a K&N filter in my Chevy LS engine.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:52 PM   #35
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Just making a point that you were probably a Rancho guy and I on the other hand wouldn't run them if you paid me to. Again just opinions.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:56 PM   #36
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Just making a point that you were probably a Rancho guy and I on the other hand wouldn't run them if you paid me to. Again just opinions.
Why am I "probably a Rancho guy"? Is that some sort of generalization based on something? Because I run BDS, Savvy, Currie, and JKS suspension parts?
What don't you like about the RS7000MT shock absorbers?
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:58 PM   #37
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Do you even own a Jeep?
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:03 AM   #38
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Yes I have a 99 Tj
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:07 AM   #39
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Why would you run such nice suspension components and put such crap shocks on there. Again my opinion seems you want the best performance if your going to spend the money on currie and jks.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:20 AM   #40
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I looked for a period in your run-on post, but I couldn't find one. Quite the little 'tude you have going there.

Anyway, people are voicing their opinions, and yours is in the vast minority.
I found his missing punctuation. >.........
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:00 AM   #41
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after reading some of these OVER opinionated argumentative posts..ive decided id ad my .02 cents worth

Firstly I am speaking from first hand experience on all counts. Secondly, I AM going to fall into the small minority on here.
I have had the luxury of running 3 types of filters, Stock, K&N cold air, and S&B cold air.
There is nothing wrong with stock..it runs fine. Removing the horn helps...slightly but barely. Not noticeable at the wheel. If your on a budget just stick with it.
The K&N has proven, tested performance gains. For me, someone that knows exactly how my throttle response feels, sound of the motor and acceleration; the K&N was a surprise. You DO feel it in the seat, you DO gain 1-2 mpg. I ran it for 6 months, cleaned it 3 times with the recharge kit and virtually no dirt in the tube every time. Upon removal I inspected the throttle body. Again, relatively clean for 6 months. This filter was used summer-fall.
Since it came with the purchase of the jeep with the k&n I slapped the stock filer back on with a brandy new Napa gold filter. I ran this between winter and spring. Changed 3 times in 6 mo period. First change in dead winter was dirtier than the K&N, tube had a slight grime buildup. This was cleaned. 2nd change was close to the same results. 3rd change was a shock, half the tube had a buildup on the bottom and the throttle body was damn near black all around. And a pain to clean.
The last Filter was the S&B. Stole it off my old mans rig Its a pricey filter, with more installation time. But IMO worth it. Ran at the same time as the K&N the previous year. All results very very similar to the K&N but with 1-3 mpg gain. it is more tedious in cleaning but, Id say the tube was cleaner and the throttle body also a little cleaner. The in your seat feel was still there like the k&n but it didn't have the cool sound of the k&n. This filter is also partially enclosed, with an open end at the front of the vehicle, so it is slightly more water proof than the k&n.
I should also note that my oil changes were cleaner with the cold airs and oil filters weren't as heavy. Which brings me to my next statement. If you really want to see a number difference in the line of filtration and, you have a stock set up AND a cold air try this:
Take a new stock filter of your choice. Weigh it when its new. Drive like normal. When its time for a filter change weigh it dirty. Save those weights. Repeat with your cold air. If one or the other is heavier, your know its filtering better. This is subjective however. K&Ns and s&bs go on wet so accounting for some evaporation might make the math more difficult. In theory right?
I know I said this was an IMO but the tests were first hand experience. The things I noticed and felt in my jeep. I stuck with the k&n cause it was cheaper, easier to clean, and has an unmatched filter warranty. I figured I would give my first hand account since nearly everyone before me was voicing what seemed to but that of just an opinion.
As for the original poster asking the "free" question. Not that I know of. As mentioned many people say removing the horn helped them..so start there.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:49 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by JeepNamedTJ View Post
I've been reading that there is a way to get better air intake by removing some restrictor. Can someone show me how to do this? My TJ is my highschool Daily Driver and this seems like a cool free mod. Please give me some instructions/pictures. Thanks a lot
Damn you guys, I'm not one for confrontation, but this is all the OP asked. I believe the question has been answered, several times. No need to argue Rancho 5000 owner "generalization", Baja engine rebuilds, and K&N Filter pros and cons... all with an odious undertone.

All due respect to all here, but come on...
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:07 AM   #43
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There is a reason every off road race team runs uni or k&n it's the oil on the filter that keeps the small particles from getting threw to your engine stock paper filters are crap especially if your in dusty or sandy conditions.
The reason all these teams run K&N filters is because K&N give them sponsorship and money to do so. That, and as already mentioned, they rebuild their engines between each race. They're interested in enough filtration for the engine to run and survive till the end of the race, nothing more.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Ogre22 View Post
Why would you run such nice suspension components and put such crap shocks on there. Again my opinion seems you want the best performance if your going to spend the money on currie and jks.
Until you show me a list of poor reviews and opinions on something based on experience, facts, and data, your opinion holds no value with me. That goes for The particular shock absorber I'm running as well as your opinion that paper element filters don't filter well.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:35 AM   #45
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We got way off track all I was trying to say was let people have their opinion. After market filters have some benefit not much but some. Look at jp magazine testing for jeep not Mazda testing for rice burners. Bottom line is if you like it run it if you don't like it don't run it.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:44 AM   #46
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Filter media cares not what kind of vehicle it's on.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:22 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Patrick H View Post
Filter media cares not what kind of vehicle it's on.
True but I will support that there is minmal benefit on the TJ. I've weighed in on this before but the word "K&N" around here, no pun intended is a dirty word. I've been using them for 23 years. My well modded 89 Mustang has 267K miles and my 99 Durango has 197k. both have had K&N for just about all of their life.

The things that need to be evaluated when this subject comes up:

- How is the vehicle being used? There is nothing wrong with street use. What some people do not address here is that believe it or not, many Jeeps do not see dirty and for others it is very rare. I have a drop in K&N from the PO. Am I worried about it? NO. Mine sees dirt roads maybe 20 days a year. Now if I were off roading in choking dust all the time, I would consider a different filter.

I love that air filter study that gets tossed around. Ok so there is evidence of contamination but what is the bottom line affect on the motor? Millions of beople have K&N as well as other mystery "performance and ebay filters" Where are all the failed engined as a result? The wear if any is miniscule and would not even be noticed over the time most people even keep the vehicle. I keep vehicles.

- Performance. I have had my vehicles dynoed (not the Jeep)and am very familiar with proven results on other vehicles from just a filter change. One of the misconceptions that also gets posted is the TJ system is non restrictive and the engine gets all the air it can use. Any bends in the intake tract, the corrugated sectioned etc cause restriction in the fluid (air) flow. Yes all the necessary air passes through the filter but it takes energy to pull the air through that. It does take away from the net output of the engine. Put a less restrictive filter and a smooth tube and there will be some gain. But back to he TJ subject at hand, the amount of gain and in reality how the Jeep is typicly driven, it's not worth it.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:33 AM   #48
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There are some who have swallowed K&N's hype hook, line, and sinker... without much thought behind it.

OF COURSE there are some vehicles whose performance and perhaps even mpg can be improved with a K&N. NO DOUBT. That is because there are indeed some vehicles whose air intake systems were purposely designed to be restrictive. Two of those include the Mustang HP 5.0L and the Camaro Z28. Those vehicles will pick up an immediate improvement in peformance for those who care about every possible HP... racers and kids.

There are however vehicles whose performance will not be improved with a K&N because their factory air intakes are not restrictive. The Wrangler TJ is one of those. Jim Repp, a senior Jeep engineer who is also widely known as the 'father of the Jeep Rubicon', has confirmed they purposely and specifically designed the TJ's air intake to be non-restrictive. And that 'trumpet' some think removing helps improve power? Not in the least. That trumpet is only there to speed up the velocity of the air as it enters the air intake which does two things... it helps quiet the air intake and it promotes better mixture of the air & fuel. Removing it only helps to make the intake louder.

After I saw how dirty & grimey my first TJ's air intake system (inside of the air intake tube and throttle body) had become ago after switching to a K&N 12-13 years ago, I about crapped. It was shocking. It took two prefilters over the top of the K&N, as you can see below pulled back for visibility, for my air intake to start staying clean again. Did I notice any difference in performance with the K&N or after I removed it? Not in the slightest. I got rid of the K&N as soon as I could after that & went back to a paper element air filter.

The below is of my old K&N with the two prefilters it required to stop letting the dirt & silica into my engine. And for those who will simply try to claim it let dirt past because I didn't maintain it per K&N's instructions I offer two comments... 1) I was absolutely anal about keeping it clean & oiled per K&N's recommendations using their cleaning & oiling kit. And 2), it is well known that K&N's filter actually filters better once it has been in use for a while as dirt starts making its porous media holes smaller. Lab tests show that.

Lastly, there are certified ISO lab tests that showed the K&N air filter to be dead last in its ability to actually clean & filter the air when compared to paper element air filters like from AC-Delco. Personally, I'd rather my engine have clean air.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:37 PM   #49
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Jerry,

Just to be clear, to say that the the intake is not restrictive is not really correct. There are restrictions. Anything that disrupts the laminar air flow (bends, corrugated sections, rough surfaces etc) causes restriction and will reduce HP output. (racers will extrude hone cast intakes and port match everything in order to smooth the flow and will it will net HP out put gains. Is there enough restriction to yield significant gains on the Jeep....NO

Yea, yea the ISO lab test. Yes ther K&N and other filters do pass more dirt but there is nothing that says what affect it will have on the engine over "X" amount of time and under what actual driving conditions.

I am not arguing. Topics such as this get to be gospel and passed on. Lets always make sure the information is at leat quantified. (you have been adding that there are gains in SOME vehicle applications)
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:41 PM   #50
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edit: dangit. i hate when i read page 1 and forget theres a page 2 before i post.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:17 PM   #51
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I have a Chevy 2500 6.0L, and after I bought it I started reading around forums trying to see what folks were saying about aftermarket intakes. The consensus was that the stock air box is fine, but the intake tube from the MAF to the throttle body was indeed restrictive, and potentially the paper filter element. So, I put a drop in K&N filter in it, and an Airaid intake tube on it. In fact, until I bought the TJ, every vehicle I bought got a K&N. My Grand Am GT has one in it, too. My butt dyno told me there was a difference in top end power pulling my trailer, just like the vast majority of folks were claiming.
When the vast majority of TJ forum members claim an aftermarket intake will not benefit the TJ, I consider that reliable information. That's when I starting reading about K&N filters being very inefficient at filtering. Maybe I'm wrong, but the majority of folks posting this kind of information have nothing to gain or loose by not stating their honest opinions and experiences. Maybe I was too blunt when I replied to Ogre22's statement about paper filters not being efficient at filtering dirt. I tend to do that sometimes.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:33 PM   #52
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Damn you guys, I'm not one for confrontation, but this is all the OP asked. I believe the question has been answered, several times. No need to argue Rancho 5000 owner "generalization", Baja engine rebuilds, and K&N Filter pros and cons... all with an odious undertone.

All due respect to all here, but come on...
Spoil sport I was enjoying it...carry on dears...
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:48 PM   #53
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Jerry,

Just to be clear, to say that the the intake is not restrictive is not really correct. There are restrictions. Anything that disrupts the laminar air flow (bends, corrugated sections, rough surfaces etc) causes restriction and will reduce HP output. (racers will extrude hone cast intakes and port match everything in order to smooth the flow and will it will net HP out put gains. Is there enough restriction to yield significant gains on the Jeep....NO

Yea, yea the ISO lab test. Yes ther K&N and other filters do pass more dirt but there is nothing that says what affect it will have on the engine over "X" amount of time and under what actual driving conditions.

I am not arguing. Topics such as this get to be gospel and passed on. Lets always make sure the information is at leat quantified. (you have been adding that there are gains in SOME vehicle applications)
Jiminy Cricket... don't get him going on this any more than he already has. He'll tell you the 6 banger engine red lines out at 5,000, but seldom sees 3,000. And a whole bunch of other wikipedia stuff.

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