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Old 04-22-2012, 12:09 PM   #1
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Ceramic brake pads

So I have done absolutely everything I can to get these stupid front brakes to stop squealing and it aint working. I've replaced rotors, pads, calipers and done all the necessary other stuff- applied anti squeal clips and the stop squeal gel to the back of the pads. If I make a few hard stops they quiet down but if I just drive around town normally and use the brakes lightly I get the annoyingly loud squealing again. Will ceramic pads be squeal free or does the Jeep just hate me lol? Right now I just have metallic pads on.

thanks

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Old 04-22-2012, 12:44 PM   #2
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Get these and be done. BlackMagicBrakes.com Best brakes you can get and silent.

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Old 04-22-2012, 12:57 PM   #3
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Get these and be done. BlackMagicBrakes.com Best brakes you can get and silent.
X2.

And to the OP, are you buying lifetime brake pads by any chance?
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:16 PM   #4
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Thanks for the suggestion, but 125 bucks for pads is a little steep for me. I was thinking of ordering some from advance and using the discount they got going today. Maybe I just got lemon pads. I just went for a short drive out on a few back roads here and I really stood on the brakes about 5 times- theyre really quiet now but I still get the occasional annoying squeal. I'm just really fed up with these things.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:28 PM   #5
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Well that's your choice then, I would rather buy once and be done but that's me. Of course your profile is empty so who knows if you really need the stopping power. I like being able to lock my 33's up when needed.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:29 PM   #6
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Well that's your choice then, I would rather buy once and be done but that's me. Of course your profile is empty so who knows if you really need the stopping power. I like being able to lock my 33's up when needed.
Im not a fan of locking up my 33s. Mine locked up and I rear ended someone... Not good
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:30 PM   #7
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I have ceramics on mine and there is absolutely no noise and no dust and I only paid around 50 bucks for them. In fact I've used ceramics exclusively for the past 10 years on at least 7 vehicles and cannot say a bad thing about them. But my Jeep is purely a road warrior so I cannot attest to their durability in an off road situation or how they work when caked in mud.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:31 PM   #8
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If you are running 31" tires would the Black Magic Brakes be too much? If so, would the Posi Quiets fit the bill? Also, if the stock rotors can still be re-surfaced, would replacing them with Centric rotors be an improvement? I had my four disc brakes checked and was told that they are still fine; however, I'm not impressed with the stopping power. I have almost 63k on my TJ Sport. Thanks!
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:32 PM   #9
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Im not a fan of locking up my 33s. Mine locked up and I rear ended someone... Not good
And if they hadn't locked up?
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:01 PM   #10
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And if they hadn't locked up?
And I also tried to steer to the right. If they hadn't locked up then I might have been able to steer. But I'm not sure about that
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:04 PM   #11
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You never answered the question asked if you're buying lifetime brake pads. If so, don't. Lifetime brake pads outlast other pads because they are so hard they don't wear very quickly... and being that hard, they don't stop worth a crap and they tend to squeal more.

And to me, $125 for GOOD brake pads that won't squeal and will make me stop better is cheap.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:05 PM   #12
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Locking up the brakes increases stopping distance aka the invention antilock brakes...
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:13 PM   #13
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Locking up the brakes increases stopping distance aka the invention antilock brakes...
Not really, decreasing the stopping distance is not the purpose of ABS. ABS was developed to allow steering in a panic stop by preventing the brakes from locking up. ABS does not and was not developed to shorten stopping distances. On some road surfaces, ABS can actually lengthen stopping distances.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
Not really, decreasing the stopping distance is not the purpose of ABS. ABS was developed to allow steering in a panic stop by preventing the brakes from locking up. ABS does not and was not developed to shorten stopping distances. On some road surfaces, ABS can actually lengthen stopping distances.
I respectfully have to disagree. Why do you think there is so much emphasis on threshold breaking? I want brakes that stop me, not that lock up whenever I press them. Any slippery condition will allow you to slide further with the brakes locked. On dry roads you will slide further with locked brakes than good braking. I can see maybe going downhill in sand or gravel would be better to lock your brakes. But for practical driving, locked up brakes are NOT what I want.


And of course the steering aspect applies and is a major if not the most important characteristic of abs, but the fact remains that being unable to lock the brakes prevents just that, allowing vehicles to stop quicker and safer.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by GoldenSahara00

I respectfully have to disagree. Why do you think there is so much emphasis on threshold breaking? I want brakes that stop me, not that lock up whenever I press them. Any slippery condition will allow you to slide further with the brakes locked. On dry roads you will slide further with locked brakes than good braking. I can see maybe going downhill in sand or gravel would be better to lock your brakes. But for practical driving, locked up brakes are NOT what I want.
X2! Its just physics really. If you take the converse of this situation, say acceleration, I am pretty sure you will accelerate more quickly if there is a constant application of torque to the wheels without causing them to break traction than if you just laid on the throttle causing the tires to spin and lose traction. Same concept used by drifters, sliding = less friction than coming to a controlled stop.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:41 PM   #16
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And my BMB pads give you the best threshold braking, hot or cold available. Abs notwithstanding in the equation.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:41 PM   #17
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I respectfully have to disagree. Why do you think there is so much emphasis on threshold breaking? I want brakes that stop me, not that lock up whenever I press them. Any slippery condition will allow you to slide further with the brakes locked. On dry roads you will slide further with locked brakes than good braking. I can see maybe going downhill in sand or gravel would be better to lock your brakes. But for practical driving, locked up brakes are NOT what I want.


And of course the steering aspect applies and is a major if not the most important characteristic of abs, but the fact remains that being unable to lock the brakes prevents just that, allowing vehicles to stop quicker and safer.
I'm not making this stuff up. All I can suggest is that you do some research on ABS to discover its true purpose.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:46 PM   #18
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Abs kicks in when the wheels start to lock, it simply causes the brakes to release then pulse very quickly. This allows the tires to continue to rotate vs skidding across the surface. When you lock the front brakes the vehicle will go wherever the momentum carries it for however far it will fight the friction. Then, when the pads release, and your tires regain traction, you will go in the direction that your wheels are pointing. It is a frightening experience in a 1986 minivan when your 16. A perfect instance where this will increase your stopping distance is on dry pavement at lower speeds where if you lock the brakes there is enough friction between the tire and the ground to stop the momentum quickly. In slick conditions, it's a crap shoot...too many variables. But Jerry is right here, abs was designed to eliminate the driver error of slamming on the brakes instead of pumping them so that you can still steer the vehicle.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:46 PM   #19
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So I have done absolutely everything I can to get these stupid front brakes to stop squealing and it aint working. I've replaced rotors, pads, calipers and done all the necessary other stuff- applied anti squeal clips and the stop squeal gel to the back of the pads. If I make a few hard stops they quiet down but if I just drive around town normally and use the brakes lightly I get the annoyingly loud squealing again. Will ceramic pads be squeal free or does the Jeep just hate me lol? Right now I just have metallic pads on.

thanks
Same exact problem with mine!
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinwater

Im not a fan of locking up my 33s. Mine locked up and I rear ended someone... Not good
My STOCK brakes with 33" MT's locked up in the rain and I slid right through a stop sign and came to rest in the center of the intersection
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:53 PM   #21
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Do they even make ABS for jeeps?
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:55 PM   #22
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Never did I pass judgment on bmb brakes. So that's irrelevant to the conversation. The ability of steering was not introduced by myself either. I have been speaking about stopping distances strictly. You can try to make the conversation about whatever the hell you want to come up with as many conjectures as you want. I don't take any of it without proof. Constant friction will reduce momentum more than the less than constant friction seem with a sliding tire. You can say whatever you like but math and physics agree with me. I don't need to read up anymore because I have researched this plenty. If anyone has anything substantial and realistic to add to the table feel free.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos

X2! Its just physics really. If you take the converse of this situation, say acceleration, I am pretty sure you will accelerate more quickly if there is a constant application of torque to the wheels without causing them to break traction than if you just laid on the throttle causing the tires to spin and lose traction. Same concept used by drifters, sliding = less friction than coming to a controlled stop.
x0 :-( It's understanding what fully happens when brakes lock and how abs actually applies the friction. Momentum and friction are the keys here.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:56 PM   #24
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My STOCK brakes with 33" MT's locked up in the rain and I slid right through a stop sign and came to rest in the center of the intersection
Yeah. I have stock brakes too. And I'm pretty sure I don't have ABS (I have a 98). And as said before with the 1986 minivan not having ABS when ur 16. I'm 16 and have a jeep with no ABS. Pretty scary stuff!!
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:00 PM   #25
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my 01 didnt have it...my 06 has it to the max. But it must be an option or something..cuz my buddies 06 rubicon doesnt have a shred of it. But normally i disconnect it anyhow. I play in the mud more often then anything...and i want my tires to lock. Nothing more annoying then that ABS goin ape shit while im trying to powerslide across a slick flat :P
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by GoldenSahara00
Constant friction will reduce momentum more than the less than constant friction seem with a sliding tire...
...If anyone has anything substantial and realistic to add to the table feel free.
Respectfully...Abs does not apply constant friction...makes the physics less simple.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by jrussblues

Respectfully...Abs does not apply constant friction...makes the physics less simple.
I never said anything about abs. I said that abs encompasses the principle that threshold braking is more effective than locking the brakes up. I don't have abs so I don't give a crap.

You took my words out of context. Threshold braking does provide constant friction. Locking the brakes does not.

No offense but everyone's inability to stay on topic is quite annoying.


Does this sound fair:

If anyone can provide me with reliable evidence of how locking the brakes is more effective in time and distance than threshold braking, in normal driving, then I will change my mind. That is my argument. No other variant that you all keep trying to introduce. I think that's acceptable.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:15 PM   #28
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There is a huge misconception by many about what ABS does and its purpose. Most people think ABS's purpose is to shorten braking distance but they are wrong. ABS was actually developed to remove the need to threshhold brake to maintain the ability to steer. You can't steer if your brakes are locked up. Threshhold braking's purpose is to maintain directional control, not shorter stopping distances.

Antilock Brake Systems (ABS)
Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Traction Control
EU - Road safety - Anti-lock braking systems in cars (ABS)

From that last link, its opening paragraph says it all:

"What are anti-lock braking systems (ABS)?

The main purpose of ABS is to prevent skidding where loss of steering and control result from locked wheels when braking hard. Such systems are now fitted to many new cars. This is intended to provide additional steering in the emergency situation, not to decrease stopping distance
s." (their words, not mine)

And from Anti-Lock Brakes? look where it says:

"Remember that ABS brakes do not help you stop quicker under most conditions. They do help you maintain steering control during braking so you can veer around obstacles." (their words, not mine)

And lastly... look at the name of the system... anti-skid braking system. That explains its purpose. In some situations, ABS can shorten stopping distance but in other situations it will lengthen stopping distance... which makes sense because its ultimate true purpose is not about shortening stopping distances at all.

For those in this thread who want to ignore the facts and go on believing the purpose of ABS is to shorten stopping distances, be my guest.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:19 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
There is a huge misconception by many about what ABS does and its purpose. Most people think ABS's purpose is to shorten braking distance but they are wrong. ABS was actually developed to remove the need to threshhold brake to maintain the ability to steer. You can't steer if your brakes are locked up. Threshhold braking's purpose is to maintain directional control, not shorter stopping distances.

Antilock Brake Systems (ABS)
Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Traction Control
EU - Road safety - Anti-lock braking systems in cars (ABS)

From that last link, its opening paragraph says it all:

"What are anti-lock braking systems (ABS)?

The main purpose of ABS is to prevent skidding where loss of steering and control result from locked wheels when braking hard. Such systems are now fitted to many new cars. This is intended to provide additional steering in the emergency situation, not to decrease stopping distances." (their words, not mine)

And from Anti-Lock Brakes? look where it says:

"Remember that ABS brakes do not help you stop quicker under most conditions. They do help you maintain steering control during braking so you can veer around obstacles." (their words, not mine)

And lastly... look at the name of the system... anti-skid braking system. That explains its purpose. In some situations, ABS can shorten stopping distance but in other situations it will lengthen stopping distance... which makes sense because its ultimate true purpose is not about shortening stopping distances at all.

For those in this thread who want to ignore the facts and go on believing the purpose of ABS is to shorten stopping distances, be my guest.
And Jerry wins again! You can't possibly argue with this...
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:20 PM   #30
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Hey all,

Just got back from advance- ended up using the discount they got going today and got wearever platinum ceramics. These are supposed to be good pads and should be silent. The reviews seemed to indicate these were a good quality pad plus I got a deal on them.

The reason I didn't go for the black magics is mostly because I'm a student without a ton of money to spend, so i always try to find the best trade off between quality and total spending. As long as these quiet things down I'll be extremely happy and never ever ever ever ever go back to metallic pads . I just need some good pads that will get me a few more years until I have the money/can take the Jeep off the road and start the restoration/build up I got planned for it.

And I did not get lifetime pads Jerry to answer your question. These wearever pads are supposed to be pretty darned good. I'll update in a few days when they get on.

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