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Old 05-16-2012, 06:52 PM   #1
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Clutch frustration

Over the last two weeks I pulled the transmission off to check the clutch and see if it was either the clutch, throw out bearing, clutch fork, or pressure plate that was causing a soft soft clutch and difficulty getting into gear. Upon getting into the bell housing , the pin which keeps the clutch fork attached to the little ball joint had fallen off. I thought great that was my problem. Since being inside I checked the clutch, Pressure plate and found them to be in excellent condition. However since I had the thing apart I decided to replace the clutch, pressur plate and throw out bearing, and pilot bushing/bearing while I was in there. All good. Get everything back together and now I was unable to get the baby in gear at all. Revisited the master cylinder and slave. All seemed good. No leaks and piston seemed to be moving fine. I bled the system by pushing the piston. Shot out of the master resevoir! tightened the slave back up. Much stiffer clutch - good stiff! Feels right! Now I have no engagement. I can shift into any gear easily but the clutch doesn't seem to be engaging. I am totally at wits end. Master and slave seem to be working fine. New clutch, pressure plate, pilot bearing and throw out. Any ideas? I thought I checked a couple of times before putting the clutch on that it was properly installed. (ie. flywheel side to fly wheel) What could be my issue? Really frustrated and wheel -less! No wheels no work! I can't take much more of this. Please help if you have any suggeastions. Oh and all the fluids were changed. Synthetic 10/30 in tranny NV 3550 (yea I know MOPar only), drained and filled 231 with proper ATF. Changed the gear oil in rear dif.

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Old 05-16-2012, 08:30 PM   #2
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Not to be an @zzhat to you,But do you have the right Clutch Pack for Wrangler????If So Regardless of whether you think you removed all the air in the line,If it's a soft Pedal there's Air Somewhere,Even if it's Bypassing a little bit,then there's still Air.....

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Old 05-16-2012, 08:44 PM   #3
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I just did a clutch a few months ago. I'll kinda think it through with you to see if everything is how i remember it.

Little spring (mine was broken) on the ball holds the fork in place on that side. If the slave is off can you move the fork up or down, or in and out, maybe showing that is not held on the pilot stud.

throw out bearing is on correct side, meaning the meaty part of it is on he engine side of the fork. presure plate is torqued down all the way? i know i went around mine about four times until i got them all to spec.

slave is nestling into the other side of the fork, and you said it has good pressure at the pedal?

to not be engaging, it almost has to be in the throw out or slave i would imagine.

I posted a couple pics of the look it should have when complete. these might be ax5 or ax15's, but they are the same.

i am leaning towards throw out being on the wrong side if the slave is right and the fork is nested where it should be....but to check it would mean pulling it back out. unless you have a small mirror and flashlight

good luck!
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:49 PM   #4
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and if it makes you feel any better i had a lot of snafu's putting mine in...one being the spring braking on the pilot stud at 8 pm on a friday night and i needed the jeep on sat...and the other being slid it all back to together, came out from underneath the jeep only to find my clutch fork sitting on a five gallon bucket, where i had laid it "for just a second" while i tightened up the trans jack....talk about cussing!
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:17 AM   #5
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Kevbz - Thanks. As a matter of fact I used your photos to make sure I installed the spring clip properly. Starting to think it might be wrong kit! Hadn't gone there. I did notice after a note on another forum that the 4wd linkage doesn't seem to be installed properly. Couldn't see up ther last night as I pushed the TJ out to the driveway to make some room in garage. I will get under there this morning and see if I can sort out the linkage issue. Question: When disassembling the linkage I just popped out some of the rods from there respective seats. ( I believe one from the 4wd shifter/tower to the mechanism and another from the tc to the mechanism - sound right?) Is there a special tool or trick to getting them seated properly? I just "popped" them back in! ...or so I thought. I will see in five minutes. Any other thoughts now that I have brought up the 4wd linkage? Thanks for all your posts. "Your posts" and a few others were the deciding factor in my trying this myself. Your ability to photograph and take the time to share - it's invaluable to guys like me - keep it up, please!
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:24 AM   #6
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Kevbz - I also made sure the throw out and fork were set up properly a few times. I have the black fork - I put the clip on as per your photos (thanks) and when I bled the slave yesterday the fork was solid in terms of up and down play and close enough to the slave entry hole to insure engagement. You really have me wondering about the clutch kit itself. To tewll you the truth I didn't inspect them side by side as I might normally do. It seemed to look Identical but I wouldn't swear on it! Before I pull the tranny again I need to learn more about my tc and its relationship to thr tranny. Any info you can provide would be helpful. Thanks again.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:28 AM   #7
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Ok the 4wd linkage popped off in neautral. Realigned and seated it put it through a couple of cycles - its in 2hi - clutch wont disengage. It has to be a hydraulic issue or the wrong clutch kit. My question: Any way to tell if its the master or slave? I can scrape up 60 bucks probably but two hundred wont be available for three weeks. I have read about replacing one or the other on numerous forums. But how do you tell without an apparent leak which it might be. No apparent fluid loss, no visible leaking at either part. Help!
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:55 AM   #8
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Ok the 4wd linkage popped off in neautral. Realigned and seated it put it through a couple of cycles - its in 2hi - clutch wont disengage. It has to be a hydraulic issue or the wrong clutch kit. So I called the hotline for the kit manuf. Rep said the clutch cant be seated backwards. Said it would have been impossible to reseat the pressure plate to flywheel. According to him I would have known immediately with this model. It also is the proper model for my rig. My question: Any way to tell if its the master or slave? I can scrape up 60 bucks probably but two hundred wont be available for three weeks. I have read about replacing one or the other on numerous forums. But how do you tell without an apparent leak which it might be. No apparent fluid loss, no visible leaking at either part. Help!
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevbz View Post
and if it makes you feel any better i had a lot of snafu's putting mine in...one being the spring braking on the pilot stud at 8 pm on a friday night and i needed the jeep on sat...and the other being slid it all back to together, came out from underneath the jeep only to find my clutch fork sitting on a five gallon bucket, where i had laid it "for just a second" while i tightened up the trans jack....talk about cussing!
While waiting for my clutch kit, I decided to replace a weeping water pump and thermostat and give the cooloing system a flush. Got everything back together and went to close the hood but had to move the thermostat to latch it! Talk about stupidity - I was so worried about mating the housing and not over tightening it I left the thermostat out altogether. I have to say thermostat sitting on the fender is less frustrating than the clutch fork on the 5 gallon bucket! Its a good thing we can laugh at these gaffs! after the fact. I can only imagine your facial expression when finding out your oversite! Priceless. Your admission, I am sure has gotten quite a few chuckles, but more importantly it demonstrates - we're all human and very fallible! I'm sure there are more members that can identify with you than don't!
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:42 PM   #10
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Well guess I need to put my two cents in... So had/have the same issue next to no play in the clutch before it engaged like less then an inch from the floor if I was lucky. Figured like you I had a leak somewhere between the master and slave. Replaced both of them bled them tested it still super soft same amount of travel. Did some research and what I've read is the little spring clip would be the next step. I just don't see how that little clip would cause a loss of pressure on the clutch that worked just fine the day before. The clutch was replaced and maybe has a max of 5k maybe 7k on it so that shouldn't have gone yet no weird vibrations or noises when driving or when its in gear. Making the bearing good. What else is there to test/change I'm not one to do the same job over and over. Do it once and done.
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:35 PM   #11
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I did notice after a note on another forum that the 4wd linkage doesn't seem to be installed properly.

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