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Old 11-12-2008, 07:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Monday View Post
wow, what a statement...how many have you broken?

I've blown up 3 lockers in my 30. But the 35 still keep plugging along.

Theres a dude on Pirate who put his Jeep on its side. Then righted it by driving in reverse. He broke a 30 spline Super shaft, BUT THE R&P DIDN"T FAIL
Would you like a link?



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Well im not sure what your problem is with me or my statment but Im deffinatley not the type of person who spouts off information if I dont have experience/ knowledge on the subject. And how many have I broken what? R&P's, lockers, shafts? I have destroyed a D44 R&P but never did a single thing to my D35 R&P but that doesnt mean it doesnt still have a smaller and therefore weaker R&P than a 44. And what did I say that you dont agree with? I had a S35 in my other TJ that I wheeled super hard for a long time with 33's and I would have confidently ran 35's too (in fact I did for a few months actually). Im not sure where it is that we arent seeing eye to eye because I deff. agree a D35 can be built to handle 35's without much problem at all. My point is that no matter what you do to a D35, you wont ever be able to get the R&P strength that a 44 has not to mention its not a c-clip axle. So if it did brake, at least the shaft wouldnt come rolling out. I wasnt comparing a 44 and a 30. But I was saying that a 30 and especially a hp 30 will hold up to at least 35's locked up with cromoly shafts. There will always be that person that braeks something that you wouldnt expect but that doesnt mean its weaker than the other parts. The load that axles see under all the conditions while off road are pretty vast and different conditions will put more strain on different parts. Another factor in brakeage is driving style. The way a person drives also has a huge impact on braking things, if your gonna hammer down on the gas all the time then stuff will break alot more often than someone who is concious of bouncing etc. And no, I dont need a link, I believe you. Like I said, one instance doesnt really prove anything. I wrote a lot of stuff but I dont really appreciate it when people call me a lier or basically say I dont know what Im talking about. As you said, personal experience says a lot and I deff. have my share of brake experience in axles.

Out of curiousity, what locker is it that you broke 3 times? How did you brake it? What size tires are you running? And, dont you think you should buy a unit thats maybe a little stronger at that point? If it is indeed a full case locker that you broke, then props to you man. Brakeing one of those 3 times in a row is pretty intense.

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Old 11-12-2008, 07:48 PM   #32
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Well im not sure what your problem is with me or my statment but Im deffinatley not the type of person who spouts off information if I dont have experience/ knowledge on the subject.
And how many have I broken what? R&P's, lockers, shafts? I have destroyed a D44 R&P but never did a single thing to my D35 R&P but that doesnt mean it doesnt still have a smaller and therefore weaker R&P than a 44. And what did I say that you dont agree with? I had a S35 in my other TJ that I wheeled super hard for a long time with 33's and I would have confidently ran 35's too (in fact I did for a few months actually).
Im not sure where it is that we arent seeing eye to eye because I deff. agree a D35 can be built to handle 35's without much problem at all.
just want to separate your support for the axle option

Quote:
My point is that no matter what you do to a D35, you wont ever be able to get the R&P strength that a 44 has not to mention its not a c-clip axle. So if it did brake, at least the shaft wouldnt come rolling out.
If the R&P's don't break in S35 configuration with extream abuse. How are they going to break on the street?

and the assumption that bigger is better, it's BS

You can have non-clip S35's
Superior in September released a c-clip eliminator kit for 27 and 35 spline 35's. Walking axles is no longer a factor.


Quote:
Out of curiousity, what locker is it that you broke 3 times? How did you brake it? What size tires are you running? And, dont you think you should buy a unit thats maybe a little stronger at that point? If it is indeed a full case locker that you broke, then props to you man. Brakeing one of those 3 times in a row is pretty intense.
An OX.

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Old 11-12-2008, 08:27 PM   #33
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I didnt say anything about them on the street? Did I? Im agreeing with you here. A S35 is fine. If my current TJ didnt already have a 44 I probably wouldnt have put one in myself for some time. I wheeld a D35 on my ZJ AND my TJ for a long time with relatively few problems.

How is it BS that when it comes to R&P's more material is stronger? If you look at a standard cut D35 and D44 set of gears, the 44 is thicker. So your telling me less material makes a stronger part? Excuse me for questioning you but Im not sure I see the logic there. Regardless of any of that, R&P's are rarely the part that gets busted up while wheeling anyway, in both 35's and 44's. So again I say, 35's are fine for moderate wheeling and even extreme wheeling if you build it right and its not under some full size truck or somethin that weighs a ton.

I wasnt aware a c-clip eliminator had been released for the 35's. I knew they had been out for some time for the 8.8 though. I was gonna mention that but like I said, I didnt know if it was out yet. Still, thats extra money that needs to be spent to make it like a 44. After all these upgrades you are just building a 35 to be like a 44, so why not just buy a 44?

Geez man, what the hell where you doing to brake an OX 3 times!? At that point it almost sounds like a defective unit or driver error but I doubt it was the later from talking to you on here.

Im not trying to start beef but Id appreciate it if youd not insinuate that I dont know anything about axles. It is somewhat insulting.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:38 PM   #34
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I didnt say anything about them on the street? Did I? Im agreeing with you here. A S35 is fine. If my current TJ didnt already have a 44 I probably wouldnt have put one in myself for some time. I wheeld a D35 on my ZJ AND my TJ for a long time with relatively few problems.

How is it BS that when it comes to R&P's more material is stronger? If you look at a standard cut D35 and D44 set of gears, the 44 is thicker. So your telling me less material makes a stronger part? Excuse me for questioning you but Im not sure I see the logic there. Regardless of any of that, R&P's are rarely the part that gets busted up while wheeling anyway, in both 35's and 44's. So again I say, 35's are fine for moderate wheeling and even extreme wheeling if you build it right and its not under some full size truck or somethin that weighs a ton.

I wasnt aware a c-clip eliminator had been released for the 35's. I knew they had been out for some time for the 8.8 though. I was gonna mention that but like I said, I didnt know if it was out yet. Still, thats extra money that needs to be spent to make it like a 44. After all these upgrades you are just building a 35 to be like a 44, so why not just buy a 44?

Geez man, what the hell where you doing to brake an OX 3 times!? At that point it almost sounds like a defective unit or driver error but I doubt it was the later from talking to you on here.

Im not trying to start beef but Id appreciate it if youd not insinuate that I dont know anything about axles. It is somewhat insulting.
I'd build the 35 over the 44 for use with 35's and smaller tires for the extra clearance. Only if I didn't need the lower gears.
The mass of the ring gear doesn't make it stronger. The size and contact patch of the teeth do.
The 44 does have better weld attachment of the tubes to the center casting.

I'm not arguing I'm presenting a valid point. All of my wheeling is designed around using and maximizing 35" tires. If I can get an advantage over you with .5" of clearance, then it was worth the effort.

The OX wasn't a defective unit. It's a fact of using LP30's with 35's and doing 3rd gear front digs.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:01 PM   #35
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Just a personal opinion...but I think given the kind of wheeling you're talking about, the D35 should be GTG. In this case, I kinda think the AT works in your favor as the torque converter takes some of the jarring out of the drive train. I think it's jarring, combined with flex in the tubes that ultimately allows the spline shaft to break off inside the rear end housing. I'm nothing but a backyard mechanic...though I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express ONCE.

What do you guys think...you know what they say about opinions...

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Old 11-12-2008, 09:03 PM   #36
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Alright, my appoligies. I suppose I felt attacked and I was just reading into it the wrong way.

I agree, for 35" tires and smaller there is no reason to ever buy a 44. But personally I know I will be going to 37" tires eventually while staying as low as possible and I deff. dont trust a D35 to hard wheeling on a tire that size. So if we are going to compare strength to what tire size you should run your absolutley correct. For tires up to 35" a D35 can be built to handle that duty with no problems. But much bigger and I think a 44 is a seriously wise decision. Technically, the greater mass of the ring gear does make it stronger by itself I have never found any stats on the contact patch of the teeth on the R&P sets on those axles so I cant say the 44 has greater contact patch on the teeth. Assuming is not something I like to do but Id venture to guess the increased size of the gears may also mean it has increased contact patch on the teeth but cant say for sure. Do you know? Id honestly like to look into finding that out. But the bigger gears also makes the teeth thicker which means even if they had the exact same contact patch, the thicker teeth would theoretically hold up better.

And I see where your comming from on the busted locker. A front dig can put a ton of strain on the internals as you know all too well.

So are you running an atlas tcase then? Or did you twin stick a D300 or some other case to get FWD?
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:59 PM   #37
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I think I have about decided to stay with the 33's and the Dana 35, but add the Alloy USA brand 30 spline axle upgrade kit for $215, and maybe add a good cover like the ARB Competition, or the Rancho to help with flex.

That will keep me under the 35 to 37 inch tire limit on the Dana 35, and will keep my spending way below $1200 or so. Hey, if I break it, I can upgrade then like you guys suggested!

Thanks guys!
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:11 AM   #38
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I think I have about decided to stay with the 33's and the Dana 35, but add the Alloy USA brand 30 spline axle upgrade kit for $215, and maybe add a good cover like the ARB Competition, or the Rancho to help with flex.

That will keep me under the 35 to 37 inch tire limit on the Dana 35, and will keep my spending way below $1200 or so. Hey, if I break it, I can upgrade then like you guys suggested!

Thanks guys!
A good cover will help with D35 housing deflection, but there's a problem with your wanting to use Alloy products. No one can get them and for all intents and purposes Alloy USA will probably no longer exist. Plus I haven't read the whole thread, but if you are going with 30 spline shafts in the 35 then you are going to have to put an ARB or a Detroit in and with setting up of the gears unless you are going to do this yourself then you aren't going to stay under the 1200 dollar mark. Shafts are going to be 200 or so, locker Arb (700) or Detroit (450) then gear setup on the new carrier will probably be another 200 or so, and then 150 for the covers you are speaking of.

In my opinion one of the best products on the market that will help save a 35 is the Superior truss setup that they make for it. It's going to do the best job of keeping the housing from twisting under loads.

Monday I don't care what you say about that 35 my friend I have personally seen way more 35 cases that have cracked/wasted gears because of housing deflection than not. I don't care if someone on Pirate did something with a D35 or not. You even go over there in the non-hardcore section and mention your 35 and you aren't going to get good results from that venture.

With all of that being said. If someone was wanting to run 33's for a good long time with light duty wheeling then you have a very good chance of having no problems with the axle. You just have to set your expectations for what you are going to use your equipment for. I'm never down for anyone spending unecessary money on something.
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:40 AM   #39
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Alright, my appoligies. I suppose I felt attacked and I was just reading into it the wrong way.

I agree, for 35" tires and smaller there is no reason to ever buy a 44. But personally I know I will be going to 37" tires eventually while staying as low as possible and I deff. dont trust a D35 to hard wheeling on a tire that size. So if we are going to compare strength to what tire size you should run your absolutley correct. For tires up to 35" a D35 can be built to handle that duty with no problems. But much bigger and I think a 44 is a seriously wise decision. Technically, the greater mass of the ring gear does make it stronger by itself I have never found any stats on the contact patch of the teeth on the R&P sets on those axles so I cant say the 44 has greater contact patch on the teeth. Assuming is not something I like to do but Id venture to guess the increased size of the gears may also mean it has increased contact patch on the teeth but cant say for sure. Do you know? Id honestly like to look into finding that out. But the bigger gears also makes the teeth thicker which means even if they had the exact same contact patch, the thicker teeth would theoretically hold up better.

And I see where your comming from on the busted locker. A front dig can put a ton of strain on the internals as you know all too well.

So are you running an atlas tcase then? Or did you twin stick a D300 or some other case to get FWD?
The larger dia ring gear also has a longer lever arm against the axle. This decreases the required torque for the same tire size. Or allows a bigger tire for the same torque.
I'll have to get a 44 R&P and measure the teeth. I know they're longer, but don't know the thickness difference. The mass of the ring gear between the mounting surface and the root of the teeth is the part that's irrelevant.

I'm running a STaK 3spd.

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A good cover will help with D35 housing deflection, but there's a problem with your wanting to use Alloy products. No one can get them and for all intents and purposes Alloy USA will probably no longer exist. Plus I haven't read the whole thread, but if you are going with 30 spline shafts in the 35 then you are going to have to put an ARB or a Detroit in and with setting up of the gears unless you are going to do this yourself then you aren't going to stay under the 1200 dollar mark. Shafts are going to be 200 or so, locker Arb (700) or Detroit (450) then gear setup on the new carrier will probably be another 200 or so, and then 150 for the covers you are speaking of.

In my opinion one of the best products on the market that will help save a 35 is the Superior truss setup that they make for it. It's going to do the best job of keeping the housing from twisting under loads.

Monday I don't care what you say about that 35 my friend I have personally seen way more 35 cases that have cracked/wasted gears because of housing deflection than not. I don't care if someone on Pirate did something with a D35 or not. You even go over there in the non-hardcore section and mention your 35 and you aren't going to get good results from that venture.

With all of that being said. If someone was wanting to run 33's for a good long time with light duty wheeling then you have a very good chance of having no problems with the axle. You just have to set your expectations for what you are going to use your equipment for. I'm never down for anyone spending unecessary money on something.
hate me all you want. I'm just reporting what I've found. I've had this same debate on PBB and now we don't discuss it. Kinda falls with religion and politics.
On a stock 35; housing or better carrier deflection is an issue that takes out gears. Replace all the innards with a full case locker and good shafts and see what happens.

For the OP. I'd look into Superiors 27 spline c-clip eliminator kit.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:59 PM   #40
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For the OP. I'd look into Superiors 27 spline c-clip eliminator kit.
Not the 30 spline? It is supposed to be available now for the D35.
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:05 PM   #41
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Not the 30 spline? It is supposed to be available now for the D35.
from reading his original post. He has 27 spline now. Going with a 27 spline eliminator will be the least expensive route. If he went 30 w/eliminator it would be an excellent axle.
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:37 PM   #42
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Failry interesting thread. I knew the debate regarding the stock D30/D35 was heated, but... In the end I think that when you decide to build your Jeep you need to consider what you plan on using it for. If all you plan on doing is riding up a lazy trail why spend all the money.
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Old 11-15-2008, 08:25 PM   #43
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I think for 35's a truss, alloy shafts, and a full case locker will go a long way, but the amount of money goes way up there. I personally cant see spending that much money on a D35, especially if you even think about going to a bigger tire later on is possible.

You can only take your D35 so far. Some people need more some don't. He may find that after all the bling up grades, hes just moved the weak point to the R&P and wasted money on a turd. Who knows. Its all in how hes driving it and what hes wheeling on.

This is why I say get spare stock shafts and have fun. If breaking shafts is a problem, then its no big deal. You have spares. Step up to alloys if its happening really often, but alloys are only 15-30% stronger. Slap a truss on it. If breakage persists still, then don't waste too much money on it. You can find front and rear 44's for really cheap. Hell, you can find people giving away 14b's and 60 rears and you don't see them sell for much more than $100 at the most for a rear. Front 60's are a ton though.

What it comes down to is how much money you want to spend. A 44 or 8.8 swap and a HP30 isn't too bad at all as far as modifying things goes and not too horribly hard on your wallet. Its all up to your breakage and your thresh hold for wasting money I guess.

For me what it came down to was safety. I almost died the last time my D35 broke. I was on a mountain side and the only thing that stopped me from rolling off the side was luck and a tree. Its a humbling experience (not the first time for me) that changes your views quite a bit. I have a family now and the investment into 60's could prevent something similar in the future. It took to small bucks for my D35 to let loose, I was amazed. I want to feel safe and I want to feel comfortable taking my family out with me.

So every one has their own reasons for upgrading or swapping. Theres no need for a heated debate. Some where out there is a chart comparing shaft strength, which I thought was fairly interesting.
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Old 11-19-2008, 11:53 AM   #44
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I wouldn't put any money into upgrading a 35, run it till it brakes, put the money you were going to put into upgrading it aside and when you kill it, buy a 44 or 8.8
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:06 PM   #45
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I spent about 4 hours today on some hard wheeling with my dana 35/30 with 33" Pro Comp M/T's. I was wheeling in rocks covered in mud and snow, some tires would lose and gain traction on and off very often. I was bouncing 3 times for a few seconds each as I tried to climb some steep, wet, rock faces.
This trail is rated 8/10. I have a 4.0 with 5spd manual transmission, and used 1st gear with 4wd high for the first half because it was downhill and then I used 4wd low in 2nd and 1st gear to climb back up.
I had several moments where I was sure I would break the dana 35 as I hopped up rocks and each time I bounced, but no problems yet My clutch is on its last legs, so I tried not to use it too much, putting even more stress on the axles. I have an open front and the factory limited slip in the rear. 3.73 gearing.
I don't think they are as weak as people make them out to be, but I do hope to one day get either a super 35 kit or a Ford 8.8 in the rear.
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:53 AM   #46
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I'll beat a dead horse

I'm on board with the super35 kit and at least chromo shafts in the d30
The thing about the 8.8 people fail to mention is the needed sye (driveshaft) or you will have vibes

Sure I'd like to start with a stock d44 or 8.8
8.8 will never break with my use
I'd like to build a d44 to 33spline super44 kit

Wheel it till it breaks,id superior kit what I have that way there's no custom work needed,all bolt on/in parts

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