Eating crow, Fram oil filters, and my visit to Fram's R&D facility in Dayton Ohio - Page 2 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 09-06-2011, 01:05 PM   #31
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wolf Lake, IL
Posts: 712
Thanks, Motorking. I'll buy a Fram from you next oil change.

JeepnJim is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 01:10 PM   #32
Jeeper
 
UnlimitedLJ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,621
Nice write up. Looks like the visit was quite the experience, definitely a once in a lifetime opportunity. Did FRAM cover the travel expenses?

Personally, I'll be sticking with Purolator PL30001 or Motorcraft FL1A, since I have the least drainback/lifter noise with them.

I bet in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter what filter you run...whether its a cheapo 95% FRAM or a fancy $25 high performance filter. As long as you change the filter & oil regularly the engine will live a long life.

UnlimitedLJ04 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 01:11 PM   #33
Jeeper
 
Mr_RPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Howell Michigan
Posts: 784
How did the frams do against filters 3 times their price. I have a TG16 on my jeep now, paid 5 bucks for it. before i grabbed my tough guard filter I saw Companies like Mobil 1, K&N, Pure one..ect run for 10-15 dollars.

can the 5 dollar tough guard do as well or even better then the filters costing sooo much more? I have seen alot from fram and even took their Fram challenge online. their tests seem awesome, but with nothing to compare them to how can we know? the fram may pass their testing but does the Mobil one do 3 times as much? (in a general overall performance)

I will probably stick with the tough guard filter as it seems a very good bang for my buck.
__________________
2001 TJ 4.0L Automatic, D35/30, both hard and soft top, full doors,JKS quicker Disconnects, 31" discoverer ATR, American racing 767 offset 15" wheel. ProComp Genuine steel bumpers front and back. glass pack muffler, Rugged Ridge extended fender flares, 130w KC daylighters, motorcycle light for reverse lights. 86,000k miles (11-7-2012)
Mr_RPM is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 01:14 PM   #34
The Rogue Moderator

::WF Moderator::
 
Cons_Table's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 7,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_RPM View Post
How did the frams do against filters 3 times their price. I have a TG16 on my jeep now, paid 5 bucks for it. before i grabbed my tough guard filter I saw Companies like Mobil 1, K&N, Pure one..ect run for 10-15 dollars.

can the 5 dollar tough guard do as well or even better then the filters costing sooo much more? I have seen alot from fram and even took their Fram challenge online. their tests seem awesome, but with nothing to compare them to how can we know? the fram may pass their testing but does the Mobil one do 3 times as much? (in a general overall performance)

I will probably stick with the tough guard filter as it seems a very good bang for my buck.
Jerry did mention that they test competitors filters as well. Jay also made a comment on it.
__________________
Poor Boy Racing The definition of the EVERYMAN Challenge!

Everyman Challenge XJ Build
Cons_Table is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 01:54 PM   #35
Jeeper
 
UnlimitedLJ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_RPM View Post
I saw Companies like Mobil 1, K&N, Pure one..ect run for 10-15 dollars.
where are you buying filters? maybe it's a local area thing, because both the Motorcraft FL1A, Purolator's PureONE PL30001 are $5 at Advance Auto, but the FRAM ToughGuard TG16 is $7 and the Mobil-1 M1-301 is $13 at Oreilly's. heck, I just noticed the FL1A is $4 at O-Reilly's.
UnlimitedLJ04 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 03:07 PM   #36
Jeeper
 
sonofasailor3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 81
Thanks, Jerry. I sold auto parts for 25 years and a decade ago it was easy to bash Fram with cutaways and anecdotal evidence. I've been on my second career for a while and it's good to know that they have seen the light and turned things around. I appreciate and trust your opinion and will not automatically exclude Fram in the future. Thanks for all that you do.
sonofasailor3 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 03:58 PM   #37
Jeeper
 
Mr_RPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Howell Michigan
Posts: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 View Post
where are you buying filters? maybe it's a local area thing, because both the Motorcraft FL1A, Purolator's PureONE PL30001 are $5 at Advance Auto, but the FRAM ToughGuard TG16 is $7 and the Mobil-1 M1-301 is $13 at Oreilly's. heck, I just noticed the FL1A is $4 at O-Reilly's.
those prices i mentioned are from my local meijer. Fram TGs are in the 5 dollar range (forgetting the exact cost, i know it was 5.??) and the xtended guards are 8.?? dollars at meijer

they also sell mobil 1 filters there and they were 13.??
just wondering if money was nothing if the tough guard is as good as the mobil 1 for short OCIs (3-4k miles)
__________________
2001 TJ 4.0L Automatic, D35/30, both hard and soft top, full doors,JKS quicker Disconnects, 31" discoverer ATR, American racing 767 offset 15" wheel. ProComp Genuine steel bumpers front and back. glass pack muffler, Rugged Ridge extended fender flares, 130w KC daylighters, motorcycle light for reverse lights. 86,000k miles (11-7-2012)
Mr_RPM is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 04:55 PM   #38
Jeeper
 
coolbreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Redding, Ca
Posts: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJeepman View Post
Hey Jerry. That was a great and very informative report. Thanks.
You didn't see me there. I told you I didn't work for Fram when I was defending their products in another thread some time back. :lol:

Although I am presently using 5" by 3.5" Mopar filters (they cross reference to the Ford FL-1A and Fram TG8A), which I purchase for $2.50 plus tax, the Fram Tough Guard 16 and 8A are favorite filters. I have used many of those over the years. Gotta love their high efficiency compared to most other filters (that is if you can find a stated efficiency for most other filters).
So, the TG8A is interchangeable with the TG16? Just double checking.
__________________
2004 Black X 4.0, auto, 3.73's, soft top 31-10.5-15 Toyo A/T's on 8" Ultra 175's, 2" Teraflex BB.
coolbreeze is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 04:58 PM   #39
Jeeper
 
jgorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,923
I usually buy the more expensive filters. If I have to spend another $5-7 per oil change for a marginally better filter, I'm cool with that.
__________________
my 06 LJ rubicon
2.5" SL, 1" BL, DIY highline, 35s with double beadlocks.
jgorm is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 08:02 PM   #40
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 923
I over heard a conversation at a Ford dealer when they were attempting to not honor a warranty because the customer didn't use a Motorcraft filter so as cheap insurance to avoid the same issues legit or not I use Mopar on my Jeep Ram and Cherokee, Motorcraft on wifes Expedition and AC on son's Camaro . At 3000 miles when each is trashed I feel confident none are causing a problem and I am possibly avoiding one . I use Mobil 1 in each also .
__________________
05 TJ Rubicon 4.88s ,2" BDS, Bilstein 5100, Currie Currectlync , Savvy arms/Metalcloak Duroflex joints, JKS BL, 33"Cooper STT's, Mc front Track Bar
Gary2 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 08:18 PM   #41
Jeeper
 
InvertChaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NoVa
Posts: 7,917
Ill keep using my Napa Gold (Wix), its only $5.80.
__________________
|2004 Jeep TJ "Green Machine"|4.0L 5 speed Dana44|33x12.50x15 Goodyear Duratracs|2.5" RC coils + 1.25" body lift|OME NitroSport shocks|4.56 gears|Skid Row Engine Skid|BCC Sliders|Currie AntiRock|
InvertChaos is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 08:52 PM   #42
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 33,157
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary2 View Post
I over heard a conversation at a Ford dealer when they were attempting to not honor a warranty because the customer didn't use a Motorcraft filter...
That is illegal under the 1975 federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Protection Act. Neither manufacturers nor dealers can void a warranty due to the customer's use of aftermarket parts.

Magnuson-Moss Act
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 09:08 PM   #43
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Posts: 339
Send a message via AIM to CapnDean
Great Write up Jerry! Coming from you it is trustworthy. I think what is lost most in the oil and filter debate is that there are no recordable instances where a specific BRAND of oil or BRAND of filter caused any number of engine failures. Sure all filter makers probably experience that one in a mil stuck bypass valve etc.... but any mech will tell you that most oil related failures stem from a) lack of oil or oil pressure or b) improper visc or contaminated oil rather than a BRAND specific issue. Same deal goes for Quicksilver 2 stroke and merc outboards.... Shell, Exxon, Chevron.... THESE GUYS PRODUCE oil.... Not Johnson, Yamalube, Merc etc.....
__________________


1999 TJ Sport 4.0L I6 5 spd Warn 8000
4" susp 1" body 35" AT's
4.88 Gears in Ford 8.8
Adv Adapter SYE
Adam's Driveshaft
CapnDean is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 10:00 PM   #44
Jeeper
 
wwch99tj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Felton Delaware
Posts: 4,948
Great write up I used fram filters in every car I've ever owned and haven't had any problems over the years. I put 140k on my 2.5 in the jeep using the orange standard filter. I replaced the engine couple months back due to a broken piston skirt and the inside of the engine looked like brand new and the engine had 215k on it when replaced. I have no idea what the PO used, but I do use the Tough guard now since I use Mobil 1 synthetic I just figured it would last better with a little longer interval oil change
wwch99tj is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-07-2011, 12:06 PM   #45
Jeeper
 
sonofasailor3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
That is illegal under the 1975 federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Protection Act. Neither manufacturers nor dealers can void a warranty due to the customer's use of aftermarket parts.

Magnuson-Moss Act
x2. The only way they can require the use of their specific part to maintain the warranty is if they provide it for free.
sonofasailor3 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-07-2011, 10:57 PM   #46
Jeeper
 
TJeepman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
So, the TG8A is interchangeable with the TG16? Just double checking.
That's correct. I have used both on my Jeep. TG8A is longer. Base plates, etc. are the same.
__________________
2003 Jeep TJ Sport - 4.0L - 251,430 kms
2002 and 2007 Grand Caravans - Sport & SXT
TJeepman is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-07-2011, 11:49 PM   #47
Jeeper
 
Mr_RPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Howell Michigan
Posts: 784
whats the advantage to using the larger oil filter? just more dirt and oil capacity?
__________________
2001 TJ 4.0L Automatic, D35/30, both hard and soft top, full doors,JKS quicker Disconnects, 31" discoverer ATR, American racing 767 offset 15" wheel. ProComp Genuine steel bumpers front and back. glass pack muffler, Rugged Ridge extended fender flares, 130w KC daylighters, motorcycle light for reverse lights. 86,000k miles (11-7-2012)
Mr_RPM is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-07-2011, 11:54 PM   #48
Jeeper
 
Boom Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 98
That is a great write up, thanks for doing that.

One thing that sticks out to me in all of the pictures if the lack of people working there. You show lots of pictures of fancy sophisticated lab equipment doing all sorts of testing, but where are the people running the show? Who is actually interpreting the results?

Was this just their R&D facility or their manufacturing plant as well?
__________________
God created man. Samuel Colt made them equal.
Boom Stick is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-08-2011, 12:04 AM   #49
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa, FL.
Posts: 188
Looks like a R&D center to me.

Nice thread, just today I was buying oil and a filter. I considered a fram and I normally would not. Didn't end up choosing it, but it's nice to have another option
markzeronine is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-08-2011, 12:13 AM   #50
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
6InARowMakesItGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: right behind you
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_RPM View Post
whats the advantage to using the larger oil filter? just more dirt and oil capacity?
and more filtering media so it lasts longer.
__________________
2003 Rubicon, 4.0L, 5SPD, Custom 4.75" lift, 33" MT Baja Claws
1999 SE, 2.5L, 5SPD, sold it
PM me for wheeling in and around Northern Illinois
6InARowMakesItGo is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-08-2011, 08:22 AM   #51
Jeeper
 
TJeepman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_RPM View Post
whats the advantage to using the larger oil filter? just more dirt and oil capacity?
That's about it, same price or close to it. Some people use the Ford FL-1A filter on their Chrysler vehicles, apparantly they are a good deal at WalMart in the US, not so in Canada locally. The FL-1A is a long filter and cross references to the Fram TG8A as well as to a longer Mopar filter. In Canada, the longer Mopar filter # is FE00148 and is made by WIX. I get Mopar filters, long or short, for $2.50 plus tax, they retail at $4.95 plus tax.
__________________
2003 Jeep TJ Sport - 4.0L - 251,430 kms
2002 and 2007 Grand Caravans - Sport & SXT
TJeepman is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-08-2011, 11:47 AM   #52
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 33,157
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Stick View Post
Was this just their R&D facility or their manufacturing plant as well?
Strictly R&D for oil and air filters.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 09-09-2011, 03:38 AM   #53
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arizona Deserts
Posts: 103
Thanks Jerry!!
THis should be stickied!!!
i have used fram since i bought my first car, 8 years ago!
joehernandez is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-02-2012, 01:49 PM   #54
Jeeper
 
obidya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 1,527
Dear Jerry,
For future consideration please note the emotional and intellectual shocks posts such as
this may cause.
sincerely, obidyas blown mind
__________________
Black 97 Sahara 4.0L 5 Speed - Fully Cloak'd
1.75" BL with 35"x12.5" Wrangler MTR w/ Kevlar 10k Engo winch
obidya is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-02-2012, 01:50 PM   #55
Jeeper
 
obidya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 1,527
Did they run through a K&N oil filter while you were there?
__________________
Black 97 Sahara 4.0L 5 Speed - Fully Cloak'd
1.75" BL with 35"x12.5" Wrangler MTR w/ Kevlar 10k Engo winch
obidya is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-02-2012, 08:55 PM   #56
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seal Beach
Posts: 7,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_RPM View Post
whats the advantage to using the larger oil filter? just more dirt and oil capacity?
A filter media can only pass a so much oil at a given pressure/viscosity/temperature. A larger filter media volume will allow more volume/pressure to the bearings all things being equal. We did pressure readings into and out of filters and found the larger truck style Chevy filters showed less pressure drop than the smaller compact or normal passenger car filters.
Gunner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-02-2012, 09:01 PM   #57
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 33,157
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by obidya View Post
Did they run through a K&N oil filter while you were there?
Not for us, but I did see where they had probably 12-15 different filter brands/models lined up in various test machines scattered all over the labs. I do remember seeing a K&N on one of the testing machines but I don't recall what it was being tested for. Common tests include burst tests where they pump them up to >340 psi before they spew oil out where its o-ring is, shake & bake tests, and filtration efficiency tests where they mix in various specific micron-sizes of lab grade "test dirt" to see how well it is filtered out. The digital read-outs give direct filtration efficiency results in percentage of efficiency.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-02-2012, 09:40 PM   #58
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seal Beach
Posts: 7,279
Jerry thanks for sharing this with us. It is refreshing to see someone fess up and say I was wrong publicly like this. We use to run every single engine out of our shop on a SIM tester which spun the motors and read oil pressure, turning torques and compression. We ran up to 70 motors a day out of the shop. We tested a lot of filters to see which was best. We ran The tall Chevy Frams. They gave us the best pressure and lasted longest before we had pressure drops. This was in the early 90's. As far as crow goes, I have ate so much over the years I fart feathers. I am always learning. Thanks for adding to that and thanks for having Jim here. It is nice to see a MFG on a forum.
Bob
Gunner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-02-2012, 11:21 PM   #59
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 33,157
Images: 2
Nice to see you're from Seal Beach Bob, I spent my 20's living on
Seal Way down by the Dolphin Market. I really miss it there, what a great beach community.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 01:23 AM   #60
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seal Beach
Posts: 7,279
It was nice to finally say good by to the Automotive Aftermarket rat race and retire here. Just sold off all my fast stuff and gonna go slow now. See you were USAF Medical in Nam. I was a Med Evac Door Gunner in Khe Sahn Tet 68.. Thanks for your service. I believe you were who i took them too.
Bob

Gunner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Download our Mobile App

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC