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Old 08-07-2013, 11:48 AM   #1
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For those with MC track bars and not on JF

Just thought I would share and let others know that aren't following that thread over on JF.

You guys with the MC track bars will be getting some goodies from Matson for your track bars coming up.

Here's what he posted over on the MC vs Currie Track bar thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matsonian View Post
Thank you all for your great posts and feedback... we've built Metalcloak on one very important principle... we LISTEN to our customers.

Some time ago, on this thread, the discussion was focused on the frame-end of the Track Bar and the recommended need for a Safety Washer.

We paid attention to the discussion and put our engineers on it.

The result... a full and complete safety system for the frame end of our TJ/LJ Solid Chromoly Track Bar...





All track bars shipping now will come with this upgrade.

But, what about the hundreds of customers who already purchased their trackbar with the original spacers (including Imped)?

We've got you covered...



We put together kits for all our past customers.





Whether you purchased a single track bar or a complete suspension system, you will be receiving this kit over the next couple weeks.



We have great confidence in the current configuration, but wanted to do what we always strive to do... take that extra step to make our products even better.

If you purchased your products through an Authorized Installer, the shop will have your kits within the next week.

Not trying to start anything with which company is better or that MC is the almighty power god of jeeps. Just want to inform others with the MC track bar about the safety feature they are sending out to per-existing customers with their TB.

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Old 08-07-2013, 12:04 PM   #2
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A couple other things that weren't mentioned.....

The new spacers have some added material on the mating surface to help combat mechanical precession and are now made from heat treated chromolly (as opposed to stainless) to stand up to the clamping requirements of the bolt.

So basically, once the new spacers, nut and lock washer are installed and the bolt is torqued to spec (230 ft lb), you'll never have to worry about the assembly loosening or the rod end from completely losing its connection if a very, very rare failure occurs.

This makes an already-good track bar excellent.

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Old 08-07-2013, 12:48 PM   #3
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Another very easy to do mod also is to put the current bolt on a drill press vise and drill an 8th inch hole through the threads towards the top and replace the locknut with a castle nut and cotter pin. Really easy to do.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:01 PM   #4
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Another very easy to do mod also is to put the current bolt on a drill press vise and drill an 8th inch hole through the threads towards the top and replace the locknut with a castle nut and cotter pin. Really easy to do.
There isn't an issue that exists that that would address.....
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Imped View Post
A couple other things that weren't mentioned.....

The new spacers have some added material on the mating surface to help combat mechanical precession and are now made from heat treated chromolly (as opposed to stainless) to stand up to the clamping requirements of the bolt.

So basically, once the new spacers, nut and lock washer are installed and the bolt is torqued to spec (230 ft lb), you'll never have to worry about the assembly loosening or the rod end from completely losing its connection if a very, very rare failure occurs.

This makes an already-good track bar excellent.
What about the longevity of the heim? I know the strength is there, but don't heims wear out faster?
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:02 PM   #6
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What about the longevity of the heim? I know the strength is there, but don't heims wear out faster?
Rod end longevity is a function of quality (tolerances) as long as they are not exposed to travel outside of their boundaries.....that's a non-issue here since I doubt anybody using this will be using 16" shocks. I've dealt with some very high quality rod ends in the past and this feels and looks comparable. So far, it's been problem-free. The nice thing about rod ends in this application is that they're metal-on-metal, providing no deflection at all. That results in very positive steering feel, providing the rest of the components aren't worn or loose. If it was an issue, I wouldn't be using this track bar or recommending it so highly.

But, like any other rod end/TRE/joint, it won't last forever.....it is a wear item. When that time comes, it's a cheap and easy part to replace.

Prior to this track bar hitting the market, the Currie 9120TJJ was the highest-clearance aftermarket track bar around for the TJ factory bracket. While it's still a very good track bar, I think the MC bar makes more sense for someone in the market for a new one.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Rod end longevity is a function of quality (tolerances) as long as they are not exposed to travel outside of their boundaries.....that's a non-issue here since I doubt anybody using this will be using 16" shocks. I've dealt with some very high quality rod ends in the past and this feels and looks comparable. So far, it's been problem-free. The nice thing about rod ends in this application is that they're metal-on-metal, providing no deflection at all. That results in very positive steering feel, providing the rest of the components aren't worn or loose. If it was an issue, I wouldn't be using this track bar or recommending it so highly.

But, like any other rod end/TRE/joint, it won't last forever.....it is a wear item. When that time comes, it's a cheap and easy part to replace.

Prior to this track bar hitting the market, the Currie 9120TJJ was the highest-clearance aftermarket track bar around for the TJ factory bracket. While it's still a very good track bar, I think the MC bar makes more sense for someone in the market for a new one.
I didn't realize you were running their TB's. What's the advantage of running a heim at that end vs. a JJ or TRE?
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bobthetj03 View Post
I didn't realize you were running their TB's. What's the advantage of running a heim at that end vs. a JJ or TRE?
Been running it for a while......worked with them on the new hardware kit.

In an ideal world, a TRE is superior in a single shear setup due to it being a zero-clearance connection and they don't take up much room. Under most circumstances, the misalignment capability will be less than a JJ or rod end.

JJ's are great but take up a lot of room (relatively) in this particular application--stock TJ single shear bracket. And while it's very minor, there is a little bit of longitudinal deflection in a JJ.

A rod end takes up far less space than a 2.5" JJ, which can be directly related to the big increase in clearance. As long as the assembly (rod end, misalignment spacers, bolt, washer) is torqued properly and the tolerances between the parts are minimal then there will be no movement. And as long as the rod end is of good quality then it will last a long time with no maintenance requirements aside from washing it off with the rest of the vehicle.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Been running it for a while......worked with them on the new hardware kit.

In an ideal world, a TRE is superior in a single shear setup due to it being a zero-clearance connection and they don't take up much room. Under most circumstances, the misalignment capability will be less than a JJ or rod end.

JJ's are great but take up a lot of room (relatively) in this particular application--stock TJ single shear bracket. And while it's very minor, there is a little bit of longitudinal deflection in a JJ.

A rod end takes up far less space than a 2.5" JJ, which can be directly related to the big increase in clearance. As long as the assembly (rod end, misalignment spacers, bolt, washer) is torqued properly and the tolerances between the parts are minimal then there will be no movement. And as long as the rod end is of good quality then it will last a long time with no maintenance requirements aside from washing it off with the rest of the vehicle.
That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. Clearances haven't been an issue with me yet since I'm on a small lift. My concern with the heims was debris getting in the heim, but like you said, if it's a quality joint, and the tolerances are very tight, then I'd assume they'd be pretty much self cleaning with just occasional washing being needed? 230ft lbs is a crapload of torque! That's getting close to the max a normal torque wrench can tackle!
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthetj03 View Post
That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. Clearances haven't been an issue with me yet since I'm on a small lift. My concern with the heims was debris getting in the heim, but like you said, if it's a quality joint, and the tolerances are very tight, then I'd assume they'd be pretty much self cleaning with just occasional washing being needed? 230ft lbs is a crapload of torque! That's getting close to the max a normal torque wrench can tackle!
Correct, they essentially self-clean. But remember, they're a wear item just like a tire or any other end on any other track bar. A good one will last longer but not forever.

As for the torque, I don't think 230 ft lb is needed but that bolt and the rest of the assembly can take it. The higher that torque setting, the less the small tolerances between the parts matters (research 'mechanical precession'). Realistically, quite a bit less would be fine but don't quote me on that. I haven't determined the minimum amount of torque needed to provide a reliable connection....I just know the maximum torque load of the bolt and shoot for under that. 230 is actually a bit high....175 should be sufficient but don't quote me on that. I've been known to not give a crap about torque values.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Correct, they essentially self-clean. But remember, they're a wear item just like a tire or any other end on any other track bar. A good one will last longer but not forever.

As for the torque, I don't think 230 ft lb is needed but that bolt and the rest of the assembly can take it. The higher that torque setting, the less the small tolerances between the parts matters (research 'mechanical precession'). Realistically, quite a bit less would be fine but don't quote me on that. I haven't determined the minimum amount of torque needed to provide a reliable connection....I just know the maximum torque load of the bolt and shoot for under that. 230 is actually a bit high....175 should be sufficient but don't quote me on that.
Got it! Since the rod end can be replaced without having to replace the entire TB, I can see the advantage when the heim wears out. The initial investment is considerably less than many other choices too!
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:01 PM   #12
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I am not nearly as mechanically adept as Imped, but I am running the MC TBs front and rear. I love them. I have no major clearance issues and they are extremely beefy.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:37 PM   #13
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Matson is a good guy.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:28 PM   #14
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I have mine at 175 ft/lbs without issue. When I get the new spacer I'll bring it up though. Still nothing though in regards to a spacer/washer for the recess?
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:03 PM   #15
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I think 220 foot pounds on a 5/8th inch locknut and lock washer is just a TAD high.......by like at least 100 foot pounds. 220 foot pounds is what I torqued the pinion nut on my D44 axle to. IMO that's gotta be a typo.............
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeskier View Post
I have mine at 175 ft/lbs without issue. When I get the new spacer I'll bring it up though. Still nothing though in regards to a spacer/washer for the recess?
Again, why do you think something needs to be in that recess? The included lock washer will fit in the recess.
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I think 220 foot pounds on a 5/8th inch locknut and lock washer is just a TAD high.......by like at least 100 foot pounds. 220 foot pounds is what I torqued the pinion nut on my D44 axle to. IMO that's gotta be a typo.............
They can handle it, not a typo. ~180 ft lb should do very well.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:20 PM   #17
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Again, why do you think something needs to be in that recess? The included lock washer will fit in the recess.

They can handle it, not a typo. ~180 ft lb should do very well.
Assuming a typical zinc plated grade 8 nut and bolt......5/8th inch size torque would be around 150-190 foot pounds tops. I think 220 is far excessive. I think around 175ft. lbs. would be a safe bet.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:20 PM   #18
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Like I've said before mine didn't come with a washer of any type and I had to make one that fit, so if they are now coming with washers then good to know.

I don't know the exact thread pitch of the provided bolt, but it's definitely in the category of "fine". It depends on what chart you look at but for a dry, 5/8, fine pitch grade 8 bolt max torque is almost 300 ft/lbs. 230 ft/lbs is well under the safe maximum torque.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:21 PM   #19
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Assuming a typical zinc plated grade 8 nut and bolt......5/8th inch size torque would be around 150-190 foot pounds tops. I think 220 is far excessive. I think around 175ft. lbs. would be a safe bet.
You have to look at thread pitch, it makes a huge difference. 150-190 is for a "course" thread 5/8 grade 8. It's much higher for finer pitches.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:28 PM   #20
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I don't know the exact thread pitch of the provided bolt, but it's definitely in the category of "fine". It depends on what chart you look at but for a dry, 5/8, fine pitch grade 8 bolt max torque is almost 300 ft/lbs. 230 ft/lbs is well under the safe maximum torque.
Correct.

5/8-18 zinc plated.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:31 PM   #21
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I have these track bars front and rear on my lj and if it wasn't for you you guys posting this info on WF I wouldn't have known about the upgrade, so I would just like to say thank you.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:45 PM   #22
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I have these track bars front and rear on my lj and if it wasn't for you you guys posting this info on WF I wouldn't have known about the upgrade, so I would just like to say thank you.
Please understand, we only announced the new kit yesterday. It also does not matter if you are aware or not we are sending the kit to all previous customers. It is not necessary to call and ask for it.

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Old 08-07-2013, 09:56 PM   #23
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Please understand, we only announced the new kit yesterday. It also does not matter if you are aware or not we are sending the kit to all previous customers. It is not necessary to call and ask for it.

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Ya I got that I just appreciate the heads up.
This is a really awesome thing you guys are doing, I don't know of many/any companies that would be willing to upgrade customers the way you guys are. To be honest I've been running heims on various steering and suspension components for the last 20+ years and really wasn't concerned with the current setup. You guys build a top quality product and I look forward to ordering more from you in the future.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #24
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My upgrade kit showed up in the mail today. Thank you MC!
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:42 PM   #25
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My upgrade kit showed up in the mail today. Thank you MC!
Mine also. Now to find time to install.

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