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Old 12-30-2008, 09:42 PM   #1
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Gearing quote

Ok, I've been running 35"s with stock 4:11 gears and it's been bugging me (and lugging my jeep up hills).

So, I've heard that some local shops are having sales on ring/pinions AND labor, so I got another quote today...

$1057.00 out the door for 4:88's. That's everything, ring/pinions, rebuild kits, labor and taxes.

I've got the money. Things will be a bit tight around the house for a month or so. Not "eatin' catfood" tight, but no extra fun tight.

Wife is giving me the over the reading glasses glare, so I wanna pass along "your" opinions.

So, if you have one, give.

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Old 12-30-2008, 09:47 PM   #2
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In video games, the bad guy's bullets travel much slower than the good guy's bullets.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:59 PM   #3
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Yes and no.

I drive it to/from work on average 1-2 days a week. Motorcycle the rest of the time.

Gears will be better for everything anyway and I can give it to the shop for as long as they need it, so no issue there.

I just don't think I'm gonna find a better deal on the gears and labor.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:04 PM   #4
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:24 PM   #5
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I would call Hooper Rear End in Sun Valley. It is a bit of a drive for you, but I think they will come in cheaper, and they do a great job.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:14 PM   #6
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Then I say do it unless there is something else more important to spend your money on, are you running the stock cage? All armored up?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff@Bestop View Post
In video games, the bad guy's bullets travel much slower than the good guy's bullets.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:42 PM   #7
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Then I say do it unless there is something else more important to spend your money on, are you running the stock cage? All armored up?

4:11's with 35's couldn't be that bad, I'm running 3:07's with 33's and I can ride on the freeway at a good speed no problem. For the bigger hills I go down to 4th but its no biggie.

What would you go up to, 4:56's?
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1991 XJ Cherokee, 4.0, AW4, NP-242, SYE
HP D30, Rusty's axle truss, Currie HD steering, diff. slider
C8.25, Powertrax locker
4.5" RE up front and Rough Country out back
33" BFG A/T's 15" soft 8's
Suspension seats, rock sliders, plated rear corner panels,
trimmed fenders, CB, exhaust, lights, remote locks and start, etc.
Past jeeps:97 TJ, 99 TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff@Bestop View Post
In video games, the bad guy's bullets travel much slower than the good guy's bullets.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:56 AM   #8
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I would call Hooper Rear End in Sun Valley. It is a bit of a drive for you, but I think they will come in cheaper, and they do a great job.
Thanks, I'll check em out and get a quote.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:00 AM   #9
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Then I say do it unless there is something else more important to spend your money on, are you running the stock cage? All armored up?

4:11's with 35's couldn't be that bad, I'm running 3:07's with 33's and I can ride on the freeway at a good speed no problem. For the bigger hills I go down to 4th but its no biggie.

What would you go up to, 4:56's?
I'm armored with the exception of the lower control arm brackets, which I have incoming now and a buddy with a welder is going to help me weld up. No cage yet, but that is #2 on the list behind the gears as I can keep off the turtling rocks until I get that done.

4:11's on 35's is pretty bad on the road and I am excited about getting the ratio back on the rocks too. My last jeep had 31's and 3.73's and was perfect!

Nope, 4.88's. If I drove it less on the road than I do now, I'd go 5.13's.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:02 AM   #10
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After you recover, you know she's gonna get furniture!!!
Dangit, that wasn't on the table until YOU put it there...
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Old 12-31-2008, 07:18 AM   #11
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Who makes the gears they will be installing? What is the shop warranty on the install?
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:15 AM   #12
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if they're having a sale on ring and pinions that should mean at least they know what they'r doing. thats most important. i'd say every shop i've been in i've been the only guy with the tools, and ability to set up gears. just cuz its a shop, doesn't mean they're right for ring and pinions.

so just make sure they are a reputable gear place, and do it.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:57 AM   #13
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The price seems to be about right. I'm in the same process, but buyin gears and installs on line.Porc gears and installs 400.00 both front and rear, with lifetime warrenty.Been quoted 200.00 to 300.00 per axle install. Gonna hook up with fellow jeep for install. Want to be able to watch, learn,: and help.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:35 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 4Jeepn View Post
Who makes the gears they will be installing? What is the shop warranty on the install?
R & P and rebuild kits by Precision. Lifetime on the R & P's and 12 mos on the install.

Shop is the local 4 wheel parts. I've found a couple other places that do the work locally too, but didn't beat the price (or have I heard better or worse reports about) than 4wp's shop.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:46 PM   #15
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That's a very good price but I would also check Offroad Warehouse, especially if you could have their San Marcos location do the job. I trust that location a lot (!) more than any of the 4Wheel Parts stores, all of which I know very well since I used to work for 4WP's parent company and I was at all their SD area stores all the time.

Give Wally a call at the San Marcos ORW location and tell him I sent you and tell him what 4WP is offering, he'll likely be able to match/beat it. He has a tech named Kenny who did mine who is very good with R&P installations. I did have one problem with a defective gear (Spicer no less) after the installation but they quickly took care of it without any problem. Wally's number is (760) 746-3193.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:04 PM   #16
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Thanks Jerry.

I don't have any experience with the shop at 4WP, but the ORW guys here in El Cajon are OFF my list...Maybe it's just a store location/management issue, but I have had really bad experience with ORW down here.

Never heard of a bad spicer gear, but then, I haven't heard too much bad stuff about any of the brands (at least for R & P's).

I'll give em a call on Friday and see.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:46 AM   #17
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I agree on their El Cajon location, it's just a people thing. That's why I specifically recommended you speak with Wally (the manager) in their San Marcos location who is a friend of mine I've known for at least ten years. His tech, Kenny, is very good and is who did my last re-gearing.
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Old 01-01-2009, 01:20 PM   #18
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whatever u end up going make sure you talk to them about warranty even on parts they didnt replace. Gears braking can obviously break something else.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:45 AM   #19
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Any updates on this? I've been wrestling with the same issue - though I am on 33's. I was at ORW yesterday (I go to the one on Balboa - in Clairemont - those guys treat me right) - and talked at length to some of them about which way to go. I was originally thinking about going to 4.88's from the 4.10 in the Rubi axle. They were emphatic that even if I went up to 35's, it would be too much gear. I have the 4.0L engine and a manual tranny. We talked in depth about this...when I know that most web wheelers out there say to go 4.88's for 35's for certain...and I like power....what I finally realized is that we were talking apples and pears. The ORW guys told me that, yes, 4.88's would be AWESOME in the dirt - on the rocks - on the trail - etc. However, I use this as my DD as well and on the freeway I would get into the high RPMs so quickly that I would lose out at the higher speeds - with 4.88's I would gain power and peel rubber from a dead stop...shoot right out of the gate - but it isn't what I would be looking for... When it finally got through my thick head, I said ok but what if I want to go to 35's with my next set of tires? Answer was still 4.56's emphatically.

I also mentioned the price quote you received and their response was that the brand you would be getting from 4WP will last you about a year or so in there - that they are really terrible. They priced me a couple of hundred more than that with the top of the line gears - from West Coast Differentials.

I am also curious about the whole "thick" gear thing. ORW tells me I need the thick gears for the Rubicon - the standard ones won't fit in the housing. Some other guy on JF had told me the exact opposite when I was talking to him about possibly buying his thick gears... I tend to trust ORW on this...but I didn't push to get more specifics.

I don't know if you have pulled the trigger yet, Larry, but hopefully I have helped the discussion a bit. I'd be interested to see what Jerry and everyone else has to say about my discussion with the guys at ORW...

I am still not quite decided myself...but I am leaning toward taking their advice and going back to 4.56 (I had 4.56's stuffed in my D30/D35 before I got ahold of some D44 4.10 Rubicon axles with lockers and all...btw, my old axles are for sale if anyone around SD is interested). Going from 4.10 to 4.56 doesn't seem like much difference, but I hate the loss of power in the 4.10's -especially up hills, etc...
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:59 AM   #20
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Any updates on this? I've been wrestling with the same issue - though I am on 33's. I was at ORW yesterday (I go to the one on Balboa - in Clairemont - those guys treat me right) - and talked at length to some of them about which way to go. I was originally thinking about going to 4.88's from the 4.10 in the Rubi axle. They were emphatic that even if I went up to 35's, it would be too much gear.
I know the ORW guys and half of them barely even wheel... most only repeat what someone else told them. While 4.56 "works" with 35" tires, 4.88 works MUCH better... both street and offroad. I've been running 4.88 with 35" tires on my daily driven TJ for probably 6-7 years now and I am SO happy I didn't listen to the web-wheelers who swore 4.88 was "too much gear". I did that once (listed to the web wheelers) when I only geared to 4.10 for 33" tires instead of 4.56 my more experienced trail buddies recommended and it was a huge mistake... never again.

And that 4.88 recommendation is for the manual transmission. If you have the 4-speed automatic, I'd go even lower to 5.13 due to the 4-speed automatic's extra-deep overdrive gear ratio. Once again... even for the street... you'll love the slightly lower ratio of 4.88 over 4.56. Don't forget you have to compensate for a lot of things here... the TJ's increased wind resistance from the wind from the lift and taller tires, the tire's heavier weight, their increased leverage (longer radius) against the drivetrain, and their increased rolling resistance. So you need slightly higher rpms to compensate for all that than you would probably suspect.

Finally... even the factory loads the Rubicon with lower ratio gears... 4.10 with 31" tires. So going with those rpms, 4.56 for 33", and 4.88 for 35" gives about the same rpms. Go for 4.88, you won't be disappointed and you will quickly learn the rpms are not exessive. Personal experience speaking here, not web-wheeler experience.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:46 AM   #21
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Thanks Jerry - I was hoping you would chime in - I have seen your thoughts on the subject before, but I wanted to get a situation-specific brain-dump...like you did. I appreciate it. So - it may be a long time before I (if ever) switch from 33's to 35's...would you still recommend I go 4.88 with my current 33's? (I have a manual, not automatic). Thanks.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:18 AM   #22
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Oops brain fart... I thought you were going to 35" tires. For 33" tires, 4.56 is more appropriate. But you're currently at 4.10 which is what Rubicons come with sod I would not spend the big $$$ to only regear from 4.10 to 4.56... too little of a difference to warrant the cost in my opinion. I'd wait to regear until you go to 35" tires and then I'd regear to 4.88.
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:29 PM   #23
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2x .... Great info Jerry!
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:46 PM   #24
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Update asked for, so:

We had a little family emergency which required my wife to fly to SLC and spend a week there, so after plane tickets, car rental et al, I'm still running 4:11's

I have gotten 3 quotes. The 4wp's at about 1400 was for "labor on sale" price with, as mentioned, unknown gears (they would be happy to warranty them for $225), a quote from Wally at the San Marcos ORW for a bit more (thank's for the hook up Jerry, I wish I lived closer, I can tell he has his crap in one sock) and another from a jeep specific place mom and pop place (M.I.T) here in El Cajon. $1700 from them. Better gears and I believe a better level of service and parts/support than 4wp and the closer to me ORW.

So, I'm waiting until I can find time to do my taxes and do it then.

I'm going to re-do it all, but I am going with 4:88's as I run 35's and have the 6 speed manny.

BTW, if I was even considering running 37's, I'd go 5:13's and think about turning it into a trailer queen (for the runs a good driving distance away).

Poo (sorry, hadda shorten that), I got a good contact at the ORW that Jerry deals with BUT the ORW much closer to where I live are off my list. I can't tell if they only know buggy stuff or are true flat liners. Everything is overpriced and I can't find anyone that knows how to find simple parts for my Jeep. Hell, the last time I called them, I had to look up and provide a part number to find out if they had something in stock!

Well, anyway, after I pull the trigger, I'll provide an update.

Larry
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:31 PM   #25
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Thanks for the update Larry! Check your PMs - I am going to send you one in a bit.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:21 PM   #26
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Sorry to hijack the thread a little but I have 32x11.50 and 3.07 gears with a 4.0 and manual. It is not my DD but I do take on vacation(about 5 hr drive). That being said would 4.10 be about right or should I look at the 4.56? Thanks!
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:30 PM   #27
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If you plan on going to 31's or staying at 32's forever and use it on the road a lot, go with the 4:10's

If you ever want to go to 33's go to 4.56.

Too bad you don't have 3.73's already, you could probably be pretty happy with the setup you have now.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:35 PM   #28
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Sorry for the hijack! Thanks for ansering my question!
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:57 AM   #29
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I personally would be wary of using MIT. Their quality of labor is highly variable... luck of the draw on who does your work you might say. I definitely would not use 4WP if it were me. I trust ORW and their management far more than either of those other two.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:31 PM   #30
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I personally would be wary of using MIT. Their quality of labor is highly variable... luck of the draw on who does your work you might say. I definitely would not use 4WP if it were me. I trust ORW and their management far more than either of those other two.
I have a little story...

One Sunday I was up very early and driving out along the 8 to meet up with a JustRuns group to tackle Corral Canyon...it was about 7am and there were very few cars. Anyway, CHP motorcycle cop pulls me over for speeding - I think he got me for 74 in a 70...yeah, it was the end of the month. So he walks up and starts talking about Jeeps and how he has a YJ and on and on...I am thinking cool - a fellow Jeeper - I wasn't going very fast anyway, so no ticket. WRONG! I was super nice, asking him all about his Jeep, etc...and he still gives me the speeding ticket!

Why am I posting this here you ask? Hang on, I am getting to that. So he writes me the ticket, then starts talking Jeep some more...and the last thing he talks about is basically "Hey if you need work done in the future, you should go to MIT in El Cajon." ...and on and on... He kept pushing the place like he owned stock in it or something. Did he really think that I would give my business to a place that he was pimping after he gave me a BS ticket like that and cost me all that money and time and a mark on my record? NO WAY! I know it is a personal grudge and perhaps MIT isn't owned by this clown's brother in law or something...but I throw it out there just like it happened and let you decide if you want to give them business! That was almost a year ago and I am still pissed about it - can you tell?

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