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Old 04-13-2012, 11:50 AM   #31
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Theres a big difference between hockey pucks, duct tape, bailing wire, and the OP's tires, that said, is the problem with law infocement in the 1st place, too much room for interpritation. It all depends on how the officers day is going.

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Old 04-13-2012, 11:53 AM   #32
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In response to the deputy sheriff who was shot then had to use deadly force, these situations are what you are trained for, you made the decision to be an officer and always knew the consequences, I am truly sorry you had to take someones life as killing someone is easy, its living with it after thats tough. I live in Texas and have a Chl license, I pray I never have to use my weapon for any reason, but if I do, I will do what I must to stop the threat, not just kill because I have a good reason. These things happen evryday, thats just the world we live in, but the fact of the matter is some cops just go above and beyond to be ridiculous. You sound like a good man from that post and you are the exception to the rule, I commend you for making the choice to be an officer and carry that resposibility for 25 years,

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Old 04-13-2012, 12:04 PM   #33
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Ditch the spacers.. or if you can find them the stock tomb raider rubicon flairs are bush wackers and extend about 5-6" out...again check the law on that.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:07 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geiman
In PA, NO part of the tire is allowed to protrude past the fender, period. And like the officer told you, after-market flares aren't really an option because that would still be illegal. Yes I know, they are very dumb rules, but it is what it is. You can try and fight it, but I've yet to hear of anyone being successful.

I'm from South Central PA, and most everyone in our club has tires that stick out at least as far as yours. I drive over 100 miles a day, sometimes over 200 miles a day, and I'm almost always guaranteed to pass one or two state troopers a day minimum. With all that driving, I've yet to be pulled over in the 2.5 years that I've had my Jeep lifted and mine stick out farther than yours. It seems to just depend on who you pass and how much of a moron the cop happens to be. I've met some officers who shared the same thoughts as us, and I've met others who have the same attitude as the one you dealt with.
Would that be the Blue ridge jeepers? I to am a member. Im from the shippensburg area.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherpa

That's nice that you feel this way, but your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the Pennsylvania state laws pertaining to vehicle modification... and what they say, goes. Period.

Myself, I am not familiar with PA's laws. Apparently, neither is the OP. If I were the OP, the first thing I would do is find out exactly what the state laws say I can and cannot do when modifying my Jeep. The second thing I would do is bring my Jeep into compliance with these laws. Finally, I would demonstrate my compliance with said laws and have the citation thrown out.
Or, we all could do this like the sheep we are! Or we could be like our fore fathers and fight this new police state. This above statement; is why this country has homeland security and programs like the TSA. F that cop, fight it in court!
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:25 PM   #36
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Here is a prime example of why flares covering tires is a safety precaution. Look at the wheel n tire 100% encased in mud, yet very little if any actually made it outside of the fender well due to the extended flare. I bought these flares after while out wheeling, a rock came flying off one of my tires and hit me right in the side of the head, hard! That is the main reason behind the law, to keep stuff that gets picked up and thrown off by the tires under the vehicle.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:27 PM   #37
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Your tires stick out about as much as mine does, with stock flares. Though I'm also running 33x12.50, so guess I shouldn't be driving in PA anytime soon. I'll stick to my trails here in CO
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:30 PM   #38
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I can actually go wheeling with other guys coming out of the same mud with their Jeeps completely covered in mud and you can barely even tell I was in it unless you look underneath. I like it, to me mud isn't a badge of honor like some believe. Now my Jeep isn't as aggressive looking as it was before the wide flares, but it is much more functional for my likes. I say get the flares.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:52 PM   #39
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Would that be the Blue ridge jeepers? I to am a member. Im from the shippensburg area.
Yep that's it. I don't recognize your Jeep from your profile pic, so that means you need to get out to an actual meeting if you haven't already! Like the one next week! If I have met you before, ignore what I said and carry on.

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I can actually go wheeling with other guys coming out of the same mud with their Jeeps completely covered in mud and you can barely even tell I was in it unless you look underneath. I like it, to me mud isn't a badge of honor like some believe. Now my Jeep isn't as aggressive looking as it was before the wide flares, but it is much more functional for my likes. I say get the flares.
The only problem with that is the aftermarket flares are also illegal.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:56 PM   #40
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You think they would know they are aftermarket? They make extended ones that look stock.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:37 PM   #41
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To those individuals above slamming the PA. officer, it is unfortunate that this officer decided to pull over the OP however his job is to uphold the law, all laws within his jurisdiction whether you agree with them or not. It was the state legislature that created the law not the cop enforcing it. I agree with the officer from Michigan, no need for name calling.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:43 PM   #42
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I thought MO was bad.....state troopers are worthless IMO
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:51 PM   #43
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To those individuals above slamming the PA. officer, it is unfortunate that this officer decided to pull over the OP however his job is to uphold the law, all laws within his jurisdiction whether you agree with them or not. It was the state legislature that created the law not the cop enforcing it. I agree with the officer from Michigan, no need for name calling or “F@ck that cop”.
I am not one that you could say was name calling and I didn't say that he was wrong about upholding the law. I am sure your post wasn't aimed at me either. But I did say that it was kinda a wast of time and tax payers dollars for the minute reason for the citation when he could have used his time more wisely to maybe cite the speeders and reckless driver or even the girl driving past trying to text and apply her makeup while driving and eating her breakfast. Maybe a little over exaggerated there. But just like in any job in this country there always a few @$$ holes and that's in any job including law enforcement. What he does is a very respected job by all means but, what I think alot of the people here are saying why use ur position as a Leo to be a @$$ over something relatively stupid. I have a couple of friends that work in law enforcement one with the Georgia state patrol and one as a local city cop and they to can tell you there are times that they pull people over for bs violations. No saying he is a bad cop but he went a little over board.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:59 PM   #44
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Looks like 1 inch wider flares will do it...they made them stock on some models..just replace them...as far as the officers go just tell them you removed spacers, dont even mention the new flares.


I think law enforcement has better things to do, with that said however you are ridin dirty
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:11 PM   #45
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To those individuals above slamming the PA. officer, it is unfortunate that this officer decided to pull over the OP however his job is to uphold the law, all laws within his jurisdiction whether you agree with them or not. It was the state legislature that created the law not the cop enforcing it. I agree with the officer from Michigan, no need for name calling or “F@ck that cop”.
The OP was pulled over for "needing smaller tires", as stated on his citation. I'm not familiar with PA law, so please cite which PA law the officer was enforcing, which specifically states the maximum diameter and width of tire that can be installed on a vehicle.

I understand the duty of the officer to enforce laws that actually exist, but the officer did not cite him for tire coverage (which probably does exist).

As stated on the citation, the OP was specifically cited for having tires that were too large, but if there is no PA law that forces a limitation on the maximum diameter and/or width of the tire that can be installed on a vehicle, the OP recieved a citation for a law that does not exist.

Semantics? yes, and thats exactly how laws operate.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:13 PM   #46
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I thought MO was bad.....state troopers are worthless IMO
You know getting tickets and what not when the reason may seem dumb does suck, but without those "worthless" troopers and other police this country would be much like Somalia. We NEED troopers and all policeman alike to keep the crazies, thugs, punks, drug dealers and folks like that from running the country over. I thank God for the awesome work all of these officers do to keep my family safe. Whether you know it or not, you are being protected right this very moment due to the police presence in your town. If they weren't there you couldn't be able to cruise anywhere in your Jeep without someone trying to rob, steal, kill and destroy you. The people in this nation would be just as barbaric as some of those third world countries if not for the police. To any policemen reading this, I thank you for what you do!
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:31 PM   #47
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After reading my post, I'm thinking it was unnecessary for me to make mention of the comments some in this posting were making about officers. It was probably even less necessary to mention how I was injured in the line of duty. Each day I read several police related news sites from around the Country and over the last couple of days there has been a lot of officers shot and killed across the U.S. That includes a Chief of a small town in New Hampshire that was shot and killed just two weeks away from his retirement date. In that incident, four other officers were shot. Four were shot in New York yesterday and one killed in California. I had just read all these articles and my emotions about them and my incident were a little raw and the criticism of the officer got me a little angry. I lived that experience and it affects me every time I read a storty about this. Emotions calmer now and I'm not so excited about it and wish I hadn't posted my story. I have seen officers spit on, called every name in the book and disrespected more than I can explain over my years working as a Deputy. My skin is much thicker than I led everyone to believe when I posted my first post, so I take back my negativity. It does suck when you get a ticket for something like this gentleman did (to start the post). I've seen officers write these kind of tickets and I would sometimes tell them that there are plenty of "good" tickets out there and no need to write the "chicken-shit" ones. I've said enough. Good luck with your situation. Sorry I couldn't offer advice.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:53 PM   #48
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You may want to read up on the vehicle code he cited you for, because as someone else mentioned, it looks like he is citing the tires, and not the flares.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:11 PM   #49
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:29 PM   #50
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The OP was pulled over for "needing smaller tires", as stated on his citation. I'm not familiar with PA law, so please cite which PA law the officer was enforcing, which specifically states the maximum diameter and width of tire that can be installed on a vehicle.

I understand the duty of the officer to enforce laws that actually exist, but the officer did not cite him for tire coverage (which probably does exist).

As stated on the citation, the OP was specifically cited for having tires that were too large, but if there is no PA law that forces a limitation on the maximum diameter and/or width of the tire that can be installed on a vehicle, the OP recieved a citation for a law that does not exist.

Semantics? yes, and thats exactly how laws operate.
There ya go. Buy some wider flares, mount em, and get this BS thrown out.

There probably isn't even a law in Penn about tire size.

And, IMO it was a BS stop.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:40 PM   #51
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You know getting tickets and what not when the reason may seem dumb does suck, but without those "worthless" troopers and other police this country would be much like Somalia. We NEED troopers and all policeman alike to keep the crazies, thugs, punks, drug dealers and folks like that from running the country over. I thank God for the awesome work all of these officers do to keep my family safe. Whether you know it or not, you are being protected right this very moment due to the police presence in your town. If they weren't there you couldn't be able to cruise anywhere in your Jeep without someone trying to rob, steal, kill and destroy you. The people in this nation would be just as barbaric as some of those third world countries if not for the police. To any policemen reading this, I thank you for what you do!
Thats all fine and dandy but that's not the way it is in this state....they do nothing by traffic offenses, most of which are a joke.....its pretty bad when the local law enforcement cant stand the state boys either.
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:44 PM   #52
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I love these kinds of threads. There are all types of cops, some picky and some not so. I am glad that you can have larger tires out here in Comifornia because that is one less thing for them to get nit picky about.
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:45 PM   #53
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Actually the warning card did say stuck out past flares. I just took a pic of it close to show the need smaller tires. Didnt realize it cut off the flares part. When i got home from work tonight i removed the spacers and hammered down the part of the spring perch (reason for the spacers) so it wouldnt rubb the tires. Guess ill stop by the garage tomorrow on my way back from scouting turkeys and have them fill out the card.

Never ment for the post to disrespect the men who serve us just a little bewildered and upset when i consider my jeep the smaller jeep compaired to guys i wheel and hangout with.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:02 PM   #54
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Stock rubicon flairs are 1" wider I believe... they would still be considered "stock"...
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... The tires must safely be covered by the tire well and should have a mud flap behind the rear tires to limit debris that could damage other cars."... I have to rig up mud flaps on all four tires to get it inspected, and have to have extended flares to cover the tires all the time.
greenhead17, if I were you, I would get the Rubicon flares and some removable mud flaps. Then, I would put the spacers back on to reclaim your turning radius and stablility.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:37 PM   #55
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I am a police officer and also highly intelligent.....you need to be careful about your generalities
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:16 PM   #56
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Take off the spacers, get the inspection and then put them back on.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:39 PM   #57
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I'm from PA too. I often see Jeeps with fat tires and stock flares and wonder how they get away with it! I know wheel spacers used to be illegal here for street use so I wouldn't mention them to a LEO or inspection station. Aftermarket flares being illegal is a new one on me but I haven't been up on the inspection laws for 15 years now.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:29 AM   #58
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I'm not going to jump on the 'police hate' bandwagon, but I've been pulled over by far too many bad-eggs to say that bad policeman are an isolated rarity.

That said, I've lived in PA for four years and regularly travel up and down the eastern coast (live in Stroudsburg). As well, I also travel regularly to South Jersey and have YET to be cited for my tires (which are 12.5 width and stick out like a sore thumb). I'm riding with MCE fenders up front and stock rear flares. Even from the front, you can see my tires clearly stick out past the fenders. Have yet to get cited for it, and it's a damn shame that you did.

That said, PA is definitely the strictest state when it comes to lifted trucks and 4x4. PA does have safety laws that do make it illegal to remove your doors and remove your hard top. You probably would never be cited for it, but I know a more then a few Jeepers who were cited over in York County. While NJ did have the strictest lift laws prior to removing safety inspections, PA's "safety-feature" law blankets everything from changing bumpers, taillights, seats, and any other addition that came stock with the Jeep and could be interpreted as a safety-feature. As well, they have a 3-inch flare law that was mentioned before and is correct. Plus, if mud-flaps were not original specifications, they cannot be added to address flare concerns.

Most NJ clubs dealt with the old safety inspections by maintaining a set of "club wheels," essentially a set of stock wheels members could use to go get their vehicles inspected with every two years. The problem was, NJ set lift heights at certain intervals (I believe total 4 inches) where anything higher required a specialty inspection where they wrote your tire size on the inspection sticker. I'd hook up with a local group and try to figure out a way to fix your vehicle for the ticket (if the budget boost didn't work). If you're in NEPA, I'm always happy to help in whatever way I can. Unfortunately, I don't have a set of tires to lend, I actually failed three times for 31s and stock flares during inspection... while finally passing at another inspection station without changing a thing.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:07 AM   #59
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Ok I was a State Inspection/Emissions tech for PA. When the rules changed, somewhere around 1999-2000 if I remember correctly they had all kinds of little stuff they snuck in. This was right around the time the State Troopers were relieved of inspection monitoring and it was given to a private company.

Such as bumper height and width. No tires outside the body, no tires larger then what was listed on the door sticker, and they even had how many angle degrees from the bottom of a rear mudflap to the rear of the vehicle.

Even stuff like how and where an exhaust could exit the vehicle. That was a fun one, as the rule stated the exhaust had to extend out past the body lines.

All these new rules with one disclaimer, Unless it came from the factory different or was an option.

Drove us nuts. Wife was driving a ZR2 Blazer at the time, only way it got around the rules was it was built that way at the factory. Tires stuck out, bumpers were too high, exhaust didn't clear the body line. Could have got me on the lights though.
PA law, maximum of two fog lamps and/or two driving lamps. It had 8 additional driving/off road lamps. Used the rules for that, long as they were covered they were ok.



And what most did to get around it was remove the goodies on inspection day, get the stickers, and then return home and reinstall the goodies.


Cops are cops, there are good and bad ones. Tough job.

I once had a cop in PA stop me for accelerating too fast when the speed limit on the road went from 25 to 45. Course a bright red 1970 GTX does tend to get noticed.
Especially when the hammer gets put down.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:33 AM   #60
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"mjbuck" you are a hero to stand up and make the decision to serve and protect the people of this great country on our homefront. Thank you!

I have been in law enforcement for 18 years now with an agency that deals primarily with traffic/equipment regulations. Vehicle equipment laws are established for one reason "highway safety". Although you may not agree with what the officer is telling you the fact is that you live in PA and need to abide by those regulations. I am always amused at people who blame the officer for THEIR violation, when in fact the violator never took the time to educate themselves on what is/is not legal in the first place.
Yes, every State has different laws or variations of those laws. That is why you need to be familiar with you HOME State laws if you plan modify anything beyond the "stock" equipment. As long as you are legal in your "home" state you can travel through other States without the worry of being in violation.

greenhead17, my advise to you would be to take the time and contact the officer or his "post" or headquarters. Be polite and ask for clarification and what can be done to remedy the problem. Politely ask for an extension in order to give you the time to save up some money and fix the problem. Most officers, myself included, would rather see you put the $$ into fixing the problem rather than paying a citation.

Below is the State Statute that was cited on your equipment warning notice. Good luck and let us know the outcome.

§ 4107. Unlawful activities.
b) Other violations.--It is unlawful for any person to do
any of the following:
(1) Willfully or intentionally remove (other than for
purposes of repair and replacement) or render inoperative, in
whole or in part, any item of vehicle equipment which was
required to be installed at the time of manufacture or
thereafter upon any vehicle, by any law, rule, regulation or
requirement of any officer or agency of the United States or
of the Commonwealth, if it is intended that the vehicle be
operated upon the highways of this Commonwealth unless the
removal or alteration is specifically permitted by this title
or by regulations promulgated by the department.

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