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Old 06-04-2014, 11:01 PM   #1
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Gotta get something off my chest

Yes this will appear to be pointless to some but I feel like it's gotta be said.

Just cause I don't buy the best of the best parts for my jeep doesn't mean I'm any less of a wrangler owner then the next guy. I'm tired of being talked down to just because I think it's crazy to spend 15% of my wranglers actual value on one part when I can get something that will suit my needs for for a fifth of the price. I'm also 17 and very fortunate to be able to buy what I can for my jeep and not that I really take it to heart at all cause I really don't but it's annoying to have someone rain on my parade.

For instance I don't need a light bar that can be shot at by a machine gun and still work (exaggerating). So why should I spend $1,500 if it's way over kill? That's just stupid in my mind.

Again don't get the wrong idea I could care less what other people think about what is the right fit price wise for me, this is more of seeing what other people have to think. Did not mean to offend anyone in anyway.

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Old 06-04-2014, 11:31 PM   #2
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I'm all about second hand. Found some great deals on Craigslist. Just a matter of watching all the time. If you can afford it, go for it. Sometimes, priorities take over. Nothing wrong with a "budget build".

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Old 06-04-2014, 11:33 PM   #3
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Nickylaxer, you are absolutely correct. There is a clique of users of this forum that like to push you very hard to get whatever it is that *they* have. Total tools, simply seeking validation for their own ridiculous purchases.

Keep in mind that a lot of users here also advocate "wasting" money at the dealership for certain parts that would be a mistake to purchase on the aftermarket.

Keep the pushing from both groups categorized correctly in your head and you will be good.

Remember, the one groups just wants you to validate what they have done. The other wants you to spend more up front for a part that will end up costing you more in time and labor despite its low retail price.

Mechanically, it is better to stick with OEM for most critical systems, like cooling or ignition or sensors. Go aftermarket for stuff that you do not *need* to get you home.

As for for mods just get what you want or can afford. Most things in our world survive because it is good, or just good enough. Some stuff is crap, but it will get you going until you can afford what you really want. Some is crap that will make you very sorry that you got it at all. It is your choice to make and your s to deal with. It is your money. It is your Jeep.

I have a lot of less-than-the-best stuff on my Jeep. But I did a buttload of reading and research to find what cheap stuff was actually GOOD and what was to be avoided at all costs.

Just remember that when you research you will want to ask lots of questions. And that leads to the a-holes trying to bluntly convince you to get whatever it is that they have purchased.

Keep your BS filter set to HIGH when you ask questions here. Rather than arguing with some idiot, simply do not reply to them at all. If you start to take a lot of insistent flak just bail from the thread. You can read without answering, which might be the answer in such a case.

Good luck!
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:52 PM   #4
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There is a lot to be said for knowing what the better parts and upgrades are, as well as knowing how to properly plan and put them together. It is also fairly clear who the knowledgeable members are. They have spent many years learning, building, making mistakes, learning and rebuilding. Using their experience as a shortcut in your build plans and even the boring maintenance will save you a tremendous amount of money, work and headache. Even if sometimes the upfront cost is high. Often times, these same people will keep you from wasting money on gimmicks and unnecessary "upgrades". The old adages of do it right the first time and buy once, cry once is both good advice.

Though it may seem like it, very few drop massive amounts of money in their Jeeps at a single time. Most of the good builds are slow and considered. Parts get replaced and upgraded as things wear out. There is no rush. The fact that many here will discourage a huge lift and massive tires when a budget boost and 32's is a more sensible option is proof that this forum is actually useful and helpful to the average Jeep owner.
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:55 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Holton345 View Post
There is a clique of users of this forum that like to push you very hard to get whatever it is that *they* have. Total tools, simply seeking validation for their own ridiculous purchases.

Good luck!
I really think you have the group all wrong. There might be a very small select few who act like this, but the ones you see messaging in most often are not out for there own benefit. They don't recommend currie, or rockmen, or P.S. or metalcloak or others because it makes them feel good, they recommend them because they don't want to see you drop 200 bucks on say, a rocker that does not protect like it says it will, and needs replacing after a few short years when a more expensive, 350 dollar rocker will last a lifetime. Installing new items is enjoyable. Having to install the same item a multitude of times because they wear out prematurely is not.

Does everyone need currie? No. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be recommended to the average joe. But if you are going to eliminate the top line from possibility, you should do yourself a favor and elliminate the bottom handful as well and pretend they aren't even options. Not everyone needs a $3k+ lift kit, but you should equally be worrisome about a $400 lift kit. Where did they cut corners? Is the safety of you and your passengers worth the risk?
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Old 06-05-2014, 03:03 PM   #6
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I think you also need to take recommendations from the forum people in a personal context. Meaning, if you ask about a part (lift, wheels, shocks, etc) you'll probably get responses from people who are very active in the sport and choose to wheel the heavy duty stuff.

If you are not going to run huge, difficult trails, then take their suggestions in context and do some personal research as well. There are several kits people rave about (DPG's Ultimate, Zone Combo) that aren't super expensive and get the job done.

I think that's why so many first or second responses to the question "What lift should I get?" are met with "What do you want to do with it?".

Edit:
I realized this was lift centric, but the same applies for tires, lights, seats, etc. Don't need a 20 ton hydraulic winch with spinners and an iPhone app? Don't buy it, you'll never use it to the full extent.
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Old 06-05-2014, 03:24 PM   #7
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If your expectation is to only receive a confirmation of your own opinion, you have a lot to learn.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickylaxer View Post
I could care less
at least you care

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Keep your BS filter set to HIGH
My BS filter is clogged after reading your blog entry.
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Old 06-05-2014, 03:55 PM   #8
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There might be a very small select few who act like this...
That is what I said. That is what a clique is. And they are mostly loud-mouthed kids who haven't a clue. Yet the bomb threads and give folks crap and the mods do little to nothing about them. So if you say anything it is you who gets talked to.

Most users here are great and are usually seeking help rather than giving it. The experienced ones who give it all the time are frequently of the set that advises that you get the correct part and not some junk lookalike.

I am moderately experienced as a mechanic. I have zero knowledge about a lot of systems but am very experienced with others. I help when I can. I lean towards OEM everything if it is engine related, but am big into aftermarket stuff for simple mods or add-ons.

I have personally been waylaid by the vocal "stupid kid" group a number of times because I did not decide to get "the best" (read: the most expensive" like they did. My rig and I as a person am dirt because of my choices, to this clique of kids.

So the OP is dead on accurate about what crap he is taking. I searched his posts. Some are people "trying to talk sense into him" without taking into account his finances. Others just bash him.

Again, it is his TJ. And seeing how I was treated when I first arrived I completely agree with him. My advice was pretty well reasoned out. And I feel I have dead-on accurately described this online community. Obviously you do not see these posts by these five or six mouthy kids. Great. I do. I have been the recipient of a number of them, too. I stand by my words. I am not condemning WF or its community at all. I am condemning a small group of mouthy kids. I do not know how you misread my clearly worded post. In no way do I dog this site or its users.

Please feel free to quote my post to show me where I said anything that is inaccurate. Just make sure it is in context. Context is everything, unless you are Fox News. Then context is meaningless. HAHAHA!!!

Later!
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:16 PM   #9
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To the OP, you have more wisdom at 17 than some if not most have at 37!!! Keep on keepin' on and do what's right for you!!!
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:04 PM   #10
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haha that is fair enough.
I understand budget. I am by no means rich and have lots of bills (burden of college the size of an elephant). Although I can't afford say, ori struts, or a full lower and upper currie arm lift, I understand there has to be balance. I wouldn't trust a company like rough country even for a mall crawler. Thats just me. I take pride in what I put into it. That doesn't mean I bash all 'cheaper' brands. Zone is on the cheap side but I see a lot of praise for its kits. Budget is all relative to time. Sure you can afford the rough country now, and maybe not something more expensive, but save a year more and all of a sudden you can.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:17 AM   #11
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Remember, the one groups just wants you to validate what they have done. The other wants you to spend more up front for a part that will end up costing you more in time and labor despite its low retail price.
There you have it. This is the same on every forum for every vehicle out there. They all tend to have the style people, the hard-core people and the practical people.

There's good info here, especially for purely "how to" questions. For all l the rest, just pick and choose, and if you ask what people like, don't take it personally if their responses don't agree with what you have in mind. for instance, don't ask me about Chrome unless you're talking CJs.

One other thing... "The other wants you to spend more up front for a part that will end up costing you more in time and labor despite its low retail price."

This is true, but the opposite is true are well. You can spend too much for quality you don't need for your purposes and budget.
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:20 PM   #12
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When I was 17 that $1,500 would go towards my college tuition. Car mods were way down on the priority list.


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Old 06-06-2014, 12:35 PM   #13
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Just cause I don't buy the best of the best parts for my jeep doesn't mean I'm any less of a wrangler owner then the next guy. I'm tired of being talked down to just because I think it's crazy to spend 15% of my wranglers actual value on one part when I can get something that will suit my needs for for a fifth of the price. I'm also 17 and very fortunate to be able to buy what I can for my jeep and not that I really take it to heart at all cause I really don't but it's annoying to have someone rain on my parade.
I'm probably one of the people that you are talking about. HOWEVER, understand there is a lot of logic that you may not see in an experienced persons mind. I had my first Jeep when I was 22...couldn't afford to do the right stuff to it, so I did what I could to make it the best for me. Nothing wrong with that. When you get settled in a career and can afford what you want, then great.

Now, with that said, you'll see it on a regular basis where somebody will come in here looking for advice and then get all butthurt because it's not what they wanted to hear. I want to make one thing clear: I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO RUN ON YOUR RIG! But if you come in here asking for advice, then take it as such. It happens all to often that somebody buys something, only to have it fail, and then end up buying the better product the second time around. You can actually save some money by doing it right the first time, that's all.

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I'm all about second hand. Found some great deals on Craigslist. Just a matter of watching all the time. If you can afford it, go for it. Sometimes, priorities take over. Nothing wrong with a "budget build".
Right on the money! Just because people like me recommend quality parts doesn't mean you need to spend an arm and a leg to get them.

For an example, these are parts on my Jeep that I bought off of craigslist:

*'05 Rubicon rear D44 with locker and chromoly axles and spare shafts $600
*Rubicon 4-1 transfer case $600
*Front HP30 axle with ARB air locker $300
*Carpet $20
*Tuffy rear cargo box $200


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Nickylaxer, you are absolutely correct. There is a clique of users of this forum that like to push you very hard to get whatever it is that *they* have. Total tools, simply seeking validation for their own ridiculous purchases.

Read post above. I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU RUN ON YOUR JEEP!
I simply give advice that will give you a better product that you won't have to replace later. If you still want to run the inferior stuff, that's your right! No biggie.

Quote:
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Keep your BS filter set to HIGH when you ask questions here.
A lot of truth to that, that's why I always recommend your USE the search function. When you find a part you are interested in, focus your search to that part.

Just because somebody has 20,000 post doesn't necessarily mean they know what they are talking about. Just because somebody only has 100 posts doesn't necessarily mean they don't know what they are talking about.

Research and you will see who you can lean on for information.

Lastly, I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WAHT YOU RUN ON YOUR JEEP! If you ask for an opinion though, don't get all butthurt when it's not what you want to hear!

And always start off by telling people your budget!
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Old 06-06-2014, 02:07 PM   #14
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^^^This X2.

I am amazed how many people DON'T use the search function and DON'T read the stickies at the top of the page. The majority of information is usually a quick search away.

Easiest thing someone can do when they post is:

Year and model of Wrangler
Engine and transmission
What their budget is
What type of use will it be used for (DD, off roading, mall crawling, etc)

That would save a lot of heartbreak and get people the right information.
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Old 06-06-2014, 07:34 PM   #15
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LoL! Yep...there are plenty of folks whose main objective seems to be "How much money can I put into my Jeep"?? It's just a part of the culture...I'm more interested in how *little* money do I have to put into my Jeep to make it do what I want"??!
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Old 06-06-2014, 07:55 PM   #16
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Yes this will appear to be pointless to some but I feel like it's gotta be said.

Just cause I don't buy the best of the best parts for my jeep doesn't mean I'm any less of a wrangler owner then the next guy. I'm tired of being talked down to just because I think it's crazy to spend 15% of my wranglers actual value on one part when I can get something that will suit my needs for for a fifth of the price. I'm also 17 and very fortunate to be able to buy what I can for my jeep and not that I really take it to heart at all cause I really don't but it's annoying to have someone rain on my parade.

For instance I don't need a light bar that can be shot at by a machine gun and still work (exaggerating). So why should I spend $1,500 if it's way over kill? That's just stupid in my mind.

Again don't get the wrong idea I could care less what other people think about what is the right fit price wise for me, this is more of seeing what other people have to think. Did not mean to offend anyone in anyway.

Well I am gonna say Cool.. You are 17 you own a Wrangler.. That's one up, and the fact that you can spend money on your wrangler would imply s that you have some sort of a job, that is another one up. Most people at 17 are still lazy kids being yelled at to get out of bed this day and age anyway. Don't let anyone discourage you nothing wrong with lesser brands such as Smittybuilt or Rugged Ridge (I own a lot of R/R products), the people that have a problem with them are usually the people who try to use a cheap slider or armor for bouncing their Jeep off of rocks and cry when it fails (Like Rugged Ridge sliders hat aren't made for sliding on).

Quality does play a big roll in part selection, but its your Jeep build it the way you want and for what you wanna do.. Even if you are on 20's and 1/4 of rubber with 12" of lift I will still wave at ya..
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:23 PM   #17
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This is why I'm weary of getting a wrangler. One because you won't stop upgrading it and gas prices. Two because how expensive some of the parts are.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:09 PM   #18
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I think I'll speak for both sides here.
Like stated above, not everyone needs to have 35 inch tall tires. Not everyone needs to spend $20K+ on there jeep to do what they WANT to do with it. Just because it's not Old Man Emu, Currie, Rokmen, Savvy, and etc, doesn't mean it is complete crap. Some jeep owner want to do lighter trails maybe once and month or so, nothing like running the 4's and 5's on the trails. Some people just want the look and comfort of there jeep for a strict daily driver or weekend get away toy.
Now saying all of that, I will agree with many people on these forums when they talk about buying the higher brand companies. I will admit that I cheaped out on my lift kit, and most of my armor. But I've spent over $1,000 just on my front axle and it's not even locked, chromo shafts, and armor on it. But I also run the 4's and some 5's when I go crawling so I'm not cheaping out on my driveline. I've been in a huge debate on whether to buy Rokmen control arms or metalcloak control arms for the last 6 months. If you HAVE to have a part and have the money, then buy the quality part, but if you don't, then people on the forum need to understand that some Chinese knock off stuff can be just as good as the American stuff as long as it is maintained properly.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:24 PM   #19
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people on the forum need to understand that some Chinese knock off stuff can be just as good as the American stuff as long as it is maintained properly.
Totally disagree.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickylaxer
Yes this will appear to be pointless to some but I feel like it's gotta be said.

Just cause I don't buy the best of the best parts for my jeep doesn't mean I'm any less of a wrangler owner then the next guy. I'm tired of being talked down to just because I think it's crazy to spend 15% of my wranglers actual value on one part when I can get something that will suit my needs for for a fifth of the price. I'm also 17 and very fortunate to be able to buy what I can for my jeep and not that I really take it to heart at all cause I really don't but it's annoying to have someone rain on my parade.

For instance I don't need a light bar that can be shot at by a machine gun and still work (exaggerating). So why should I spend $1,500 if it's way over kill? That's just stupid in my mind.

Again don't get the wrong idea I could care less what other people think about what is the right fit price wise for me, this is more of seeing what other people have to think. Did not mean to offend anyone in anyway.
Livin within yer means AND gettn what u want, is pure genius!
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:12 AM   #21
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I think cheaping out on parts and upgrades is great. I do it just to tweak the legit off roaders. I proudly sport my skyjacker shocks lol. I have a $25 generic skid plate I got off craigslist. I have lockers (cheapest I could buy of course) all off road lights are halogen (even though I'm in the LED light business). The best thing of it all is that I can afford any upgrade money can buy and I chose cheap. Long live the economical jeeper!
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:22 AM   #22
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Sure you can afford the rough country now, and maybe not something more expensive, but save a year more and all of a sudden you can.
AAAGGHH!! I'M WOUNDED!! I have a Rough Country 4 inch lift. I wish I had saved, and saved, and saved, and done it RIGHT the first time, rather than what I have at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I'm "satisfied" with my lift for what I paid for it, and the use I've gotten out of it. (moderate trails and DD) BUT...
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:22 AM   #23
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Totally disagree.
Why's that?
I did not state that all Chinese knock off parts will last as long. I said some. For example, when I bought my Harbor Freight Winch, almost everybody on Wrangler Forum alone told me the first time I actaully use it or it rains, it'll never work again. It's been 2 and half years and I've never once had a problem out of it and it's had 50+ pulls easily. I keep the solenoid box seal up on the side at all times. I don't even run a winch cover on it but I do take care of it. Now saying that, I won't sit here and say that my winch is better than Warn but I will say that I spent $400+ less on a winch that has never once had a problem.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:52 AM   #24
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Every car/truck/Jeep I've ever owned, I've built on the cheap. I'll take used, Craig's List, Ebay, hand me downs, cast off's or make it myself. I've had a lot of fun and great times scoring the best stuff for cheap. Example: my daughter was building a '66 Mustang, a father/daughter thing. Her 6 cylinder 6.75 rear end was howling on the way home after buying it. She wanted to know what we could do about it. A month or two later I see an add on CL for an 8" Mustang rear end for $50. I call the guy and make an appointment to see it. I get there and he has it on a saw horse. It's been painted professionally, I pull the fill plug and it still has set up paste on the ring gear, I look closer and spin the drum and the other turns the same direction. So we get a correct year V8 rear axle with posi in new condition with brakes for $50. He then threw in a set of 5 lug front disc brakes, spindles for another $25. I do it all the time. We just put on a set 4 of lightly used 0-2" Rancho RS9000Xl shocks for $150 off of CL. Picked up a Harbor Freight 9000lb winch brand new at the tent sale for another $150 last night. Pulled all the stickers off, repainting it and ordered some Warn stickers. Ha, take that! Have fun, poke fun at yourself and others. Enjoy your build. If the cheap winch fails, something else will pop up for a deal. No worries.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:20 PM   #25
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Why's that?
You are trying to compare apples to oranges. Name one Chinese manufacturer that makes control arms that are in the same league as Currie/Saavy or Metalcloak.

Even if you maintain your Chinese junk properly it will not perform the same as quality parts. Who wants crap that you can make last but doesn't perform up to your expectations?
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:30 PM   #26
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Livin within yer means AND gettn what u want, is pure genius!

It's not genius. It means that you're either rich or you have low expectations.


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I did not state that all Chinese knock off parts will last as long. I said some.

I guess one in a million qualifies as "some".
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:33 PM   #27
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In all fairness to this thread, what you put on your rig should be aimed toward it's intended use. If you are all show and no go, then cheaper stuff may work fine for you. However, if you are really intent on getting the most out of your rig while on some tough trails, then you'll need to pony up the money for what you are trying to accomplish.

If you are strictly budget limited, then do what you have to do. I've been there.

Am I saying that some rig with chinese junk on it can't go places where mine does? Nope. It can in most instances but who wants to replace poly CA bushings every 6 months? On tough trails, poly bushings can crack or completely tear off a CA mount (just one example). I really enjoy not having a bone jarring ride when i am offroad. A properly set up rig can make all the difference in the world. Where you would TRULY see the difference between products is on the race trail which 99% of us don't do.

Think outside the norm when trying to compare Jeep parts...for example (non-jeep related), would you rather take a Vietnam era M16 into battle or would you rather have a top of the line AR15 with all the bells and whistles? They both shoot bullets right? Why is one better than the other?
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:39 PM   #28
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If you get a response from J. Bransford, take his suggestion as gospel, as I have found him to be the most truthful, and accurate. Been here since 2013, and trust him the most, though I have nothing against the other supporters
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Old 06-07-2014, 06:18 PM   #29
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It is your Jeep and you should do what you want to it. I know that many times I have tried to get by with cheaper stuff and I have regretted it almost every time. I would rather save up some money and do it right once. If you are younger then money could be a concern and you cannot have the best right away. Get the best you can afford.
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Old 06-07-2014, 06:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by hosejockey61 View Post
You are trying to compare apples to oranges. Name one Chinese manufacturer that makes control arms that are in the same league as Currie/Saavy or Metalcloak.

Even if you maintain your Chinese junk properly it will not perform the same as quality parts. Who wants crap that you can make last but doesn't perform up to your expectations?
Well not everyone's expectations meet yours either. You seem like one of those guys that blows others off the trail simply because they don't have American prodcuts on there jeep. I never once said anyone's else control arms or anything for that fact was better than top of the line companies. But being on a budget, that seems to be a lot lower than yours, maybe the rest of us are just stupid. But I will gurantee this, if you abuse any kind of product for along enough period of time, it will break, no matter if it's made in some Chinese factory or an American Factory.
[QUOTE=UnlimitedRubicon;11174186]It's not genius. It means that you're either rich or you have low expectations.
So I guess it's a smart idea to go in debt over parts that we can't afford?

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