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Old 03-02-2012, 09:18 AM   #1
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I want to go up 4 more inches

I've got a 2in body and I am wanting to do a four in suspension lift now. With it being 6in total am I going to have to do anything else that you guys might recommend?

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Old 03-02-2012, 09:24 AM   #2
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In all these lifts, does the chassis move up at all or it is just the body?

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Old 03-02-2012, 09:58 AM   #3
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I've got a 2in body and I am wanting to do a four in suspension lift now. With it being 6in total am I going to have to do anything else that you guys might recommend?
If you want it done right, you'll have to do a metric ton of shit. How much do you want to spend? Regardless, there's nothing 'right' about a 2" BL and just going up to go up IMO.
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In all these lifts, does the chassis move up at all or it is just the body?
Suspension = more space between axles and frame. Frame goes up. Body = more space between frame and body. Only body goes up.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:58 AM   #4
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By frame you mean body or chassis? Seem to me you don't really gain more clearance if just the body goes up.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:07 PM   #5
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By frame you mean body or chassis? Seem to me you don't really gain more clearance if just the body goes up.
By frame he means frame. The tub/body sits on top of the frame. The TJ is not unibody construction.

A body lift simply lifts the body from the frame, allowing for more tire clearance in the fenders. It also provides more clearance for the transmission/transfer case and gas tank.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:13 PM   #6
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By frame you mean body or chassis? Seem to me you don't really gain more clearance if just the body goes up.
Frame and "chassis" are the same thing in this case. The body is the body.

There is more than one type of clearance and there's more than one way to clear space for larger tires and not all of them have anything to do with lifting anything up. A small body lift provides the means to gain clearance under the rig in a very efficient manner. Not taking advantage of that ability is a waste of time.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:24 PM   #7
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4" suspension equals:coil springs, shocks, bumpstops, front lower control arms, adjustable rear lower or upper control arms, sye, rear driveshaft, adjustable front track bar, longer rear track bar or relocation bracket, longer front and rear sway bar links, longer brake lines. I might be missing some things too.

Also most put 35's on that much lift so you also have to upgrade steering, brakes, rear axle, and regear.

Total cost easily over 3k
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:31 PM   #8
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Your best bet it to just get a 2" suspension lift and put on 33's, much less money required. Get a flat t-case skid and raise the gas tank and you will be going places guys on 35's will be getting stuck on. Then you can get tube fenders later when you get 35's and do the axle upgrades then.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:37 PM   #9
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Total cost easily over 3k
EASY......

Gears, tires, and a full set of quality control arms (yes, that's needed) will run you that. Now all you've got left is steering linkage, brake rotors and pads, coils, shocks, bump stops, good track bars front and rear, SYE, double cardan drive shaft, and sway bar links. That's another $3k if you buy good parts.

The funny thing is that's a bare minimum for a rig that will see the road and you're up to 6k. If you plan on wheeling, you've still got the stock front sway bar (sucks), stock belly pan, stock brake lines, and NO ARMOR to protect that tub. All of that is another $2k if you buy good parts.

And you've still got the stock shock mounts and control arm mounts......

And you haven't even addressed the rear axle, axle shafts, or locking diffs.

This is why anyone who knows recommends a $10k starting budget for a high quality rig on 35's done right. And even then, there's so much more that can be done (and needs to be done in certain cases) that it's not even funny.

Good luck.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:43 PM   #10
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x2 on everything Imped said. I was going to put 5k easy but decided not to include tire/wheel cost and just go bare minimum cost of lift. Don't skimp out or you will be lucky to get 5k miles before everything you decided not to upgrade starts to break/wear and requires you to upgrade or break down.

Keep with 33's and a lift to match and your wallet will be much fatter and happier.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:48 PM   #11
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Hmm. I on the otherhand, ran 4susp and 3 bodylift.and 38s..no major upgrades....other then the usual...and jumped, bogged, and beat on my Jeep for years...and it never had a problem. Anything that broke...was usually due to too much alcohol...or diminished common sense at the time. I reckon if your playing in rocks...or got a E-peen issue for the perfect build then you could spend endless amounts of money doing things "the right way". Tons of good information dont get me wrong, but at that point, it aint fun no more. Take everything you read and learn with a grain of salt and balance the crazy perfectionists with 5:13 gears and 33" tires compared with the 3:73 and 38" tires and find a happy medium. Its your Jeep, build it how ya want. If it breaks, fix it. But have fun doing it.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:50 PM   #12
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For 10K a guy could build a whole different rig or buy one.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:59 PM   #13
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With 10k I could put on 1tons and 44" tires. But it still takes 5k to get 35's reliably on a jeep including cost of tires. Again reliably. It can be done for 3 but just won't last if you DD.

Mudweiser I have no idea how your jeep is screaming for release with 38.5 on your stock axles. Doing jumps with that much weight without trusses and upgraded axle shafts seems impossible on weak jeep axles.

Just giving advice for what I would personally do. The beauty of this sport is you can do whatever you want. It's your rig and the final decision is yours.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:01 PM   #14
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^^^^Id hope you could do that for 10K lol
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:50 PM   #15
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Hmm. I on the otherhand, ran 4susp and 3 bodylift.and 38s..
So you're obviously the authority on building a nice rig around here.

And judging by your location, I'm not surprised your axles have held up. A lack of traction (aka, sand and mud) tends to cater to not-so-stout drivetrains.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by TheTJRod
Your best bet it to just get a 2" suspension lift and put on 33's, much less money required. Get a flat t-case skid and raise the gas tank and you will be going places guys on 35's will be getting stuck on. Then you can get tube fenders later when you get 35's and do the axle upgrades then.
Okay that sounds much better than the metric ton of shit my man the top of the post was talking about! Lol I was actually thinking if not wanting to dump money into doing 4 more on top the 2in body I wanted do I really good 2in suspension like an old man emu!
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:33 PM   #17
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EASY......

Gears, tires, and a full set of quality control arms (yes, that's needed) will run you that. Now all you've got left is steering linkage, brake rotors and pads, coils, shocks, bump stops, good track bars front and rear, SYE, double cardan drive shaft, and sway bar links. That's another $3k if you buy good parts.

The funny thing is that's a bare minimum for a rig that will see the road and you're up to 6k. If you plan on wheeling, you've still got the stock front sway bar (sucks), stock belly pan, stock brake lines, and NO ARMOR to protect that tub. All of that is another $2k if you buy good parts.

And you've still got the stock shock mounts and control arm mounts......

And you haven't even addressed the rear axle, axle shafts, or locking diffs.

This is why anyone who knows recommends a $10k starting budget for a high quality rig on 35's done right. And even then, there's so much more that can be done (and needs to be done in certain cases) that it's not even funny.

Good luck.
X2, and 10K is kinda low - I have spent more then I would have liked to, to make my Jeep capable on 35s. But it has been fun and I love my Jeep.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:54 PM   #18
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And to help break the supposed-relationship between tire size and cost--these guys would laugh at my "$10k minimum" number. This is a ~$75k rig and that's probably being conservative if you consider labor costs....and it's on 35's....and it dominated @ KOH.



Cost is a function of what you want out of the rig and how far you want to take it. If all you want is a half-ass rig that can play on the bunny trails and do OK on the road, that's fine. Personally, I want it to be able to wheel anywhere in the midwest, drive it there and back, and to work the next day with zero worries....and do that over and over with minimal headaches. I've put the time and money into it now so that when I get home on Sunday, I can do what I want to do--and that's not work on the Jeep.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:53 AM   #19
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Problem with that scenerio is that you can't have it all. Bulletproof, driveability, capability, reliability, mileage, horsepower, ride, comfort....in a daily driver that you wheel. The guys who really wanna have a good time and wheel hard bring it on a trailer so they aren't laying under it trying to patch it back together to get home. And to build that kind of rig that doesnt have to be driven on the road can be done for alot less cash and make monkeys out of the street drivers at the same time.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:53 AM   #20
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I've got a 2in body and I am wanting to do a four in suspension lift now. With it being 6in total am I going to have to do anything else that you guys might recommend?
To answer your question, you will definatly need extented brake lines.

a decent 4 inch suspension lift kit should come with most everything you should need depending on the kit. Your 2 inch body lift should not make the process any more complicated.

There are a lot of other mods you may choose to do as your build progresses but this will get you on the road.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:55 AM   #21
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Problem with that scenerio is that you can't have it all. Bulletproof, driveability, capability, reliability, mileage, horsepower, ride, comfort....in a daily driver that you wheel. The guys who really wanna have a good time and wheel hard bring it on a trailer so they aren't laying under it trying to patch it back together to get home. And to build that kind of rig that doesnt have to be driven on the road can be done for alot less cash and make monkeys out of the street drivers at the same time.
Then I must be doing something wrong.

Out of 11 rigs on our last outing to Mission Impossible in Attica (one of the toughest trails in the midwest, right there with Harlan) I was the only one not to trailer it and was one of 2 or 3 to finish the trail without breaking, bending, or tweaking a thing....and I assure you, you can't get through MI without bashing the hell out of about everything--belly, corners, rockers, tie rod--and going WOT on a few of the walls. Being the smallest rig there with guys that are bashing on 40's, I bashed harder on the same stuff. And to top it off, there are very few bypasses. I was aired up and ready to go home before most were strapped down on the trailers. So again, what am I missing when I can do that and drive home at 75mph comfortably, one hand on the wheel, with no wobbles, wandering, vibrations, or any issues at all? Then drive to work for the next week.....

Bulletproof? Maybe not, but so far it's damn close. The few issues I've had with the Jeep in its current state were my fault. They're fixed now and were fairly minor.
Driveability? Extremely. I DD the thing. I have yet to drive a better-driving TJ in terms of handling, ride quality, braking, and the general ease of driving. The new rear AR adds to that.
Capability? Not an issue. I'm normally the smallest rig at the MI outings and generally have few issues aside from getting high-centered every once and a while (19" belly). The small group of us that don't break anything are the best-built for the tire size, period.
Reliability? 100%. Any reliability issue I've had were my fault or a design issue--bent rear truss(design) and one broken weld on a link mount (my fault).
Mileage? Average 16
Horsepower? Stock 4.0 on 4.88 gears and 35's. Plenty of giddyup.
Ride? Excellent
Comfort? Excellent

You keep SAYING it can't be done. I keep PROVING that it can.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:09 AM   #22
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Sorry man, but I'm from the show me state so your gonna have to show me

Drive um all the way over here and go with us to Washita. I bet you will change your mind about how rough you want to be on it if your that far from home.....but maybe not.

My real point is this: To me it makes no sense to spend all kinds of cash on a DD that you plan on bashing up when you could build an entirely different rig that will outperform it and have no worries about making it home for half of the 10K you all say it takes to make it trail read. The other thing I always think about is resale. I know everyone says they will never sell anything, but things happen. No one is going to give you the 15-25K you have in your rig that is all bashed up.....I've yet to make anything less than 2500.00 on every trail rig I've built.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:20 AM   #23
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That matches the longest I've driven the rig to wheel....about 6 hours. On that trip to Big Rock, KY I flopped the Jeep on its side and drove it home after wheeling for a couple more hours and having some steak with the boys.



The damage: Scratched up paint on the passenger side windshield frame and top of the driver's door that's close to invisible now. The corners got a bit scratched up but that's why they're there, right? Zero tub damage, door damage, or any issues other than paint. After that and wheeling all day (10 hours), it drove just as well home as it did there. Well-built, well-armored, no big deal. And it's far better built now in terms of suspension and also has a cage. It didn't then. Two weeks later, I drove it to Nashville, TN to wheel Golden Mountain with a buddy. No flops but it wasn't cake.
Using the tie rod as a battering ram


I agree, a buggy would probably make more sense but it doesn't have the same appeal to me. I LIKE having a do-it-all rig that will do 95% of the stuff in this country and drive on the highway as good as most cars. Regardless, I plan on building a buggy on 40's since I don't plan on going bigger than 35's on this TJ. As for resale, I have no plans on selling but at the same time, I like it to look pretty. It's well-armored for a reason--to keep it looking pretty.

The kind of company I have at MI:
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:11 AM   #24
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I should have clarified lol....when someone from MO says show me, it means in person. Those pics are cool but they don't look real challenging to me. Not knocking your stuff but body armor doesnt keep a jeep pretty because when you take it off there are holes all over the place and scuff marks where it rubbed the paint.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:19 AM   #25
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when someone from MO says show me, it means in person.
My apologies, didn't know MO had their own definition for "show me." How hardcore.

Of course I know what you meant. Unfortunately, I'm beat from wheeling yesterday and can't drive out to MO today to show you in person so a few pics will have to do. Of course they don't do any justice since you're not seeing pics from the difficult stuff, but again, they'll have to do. Feel free to show me what your definition of difficult is.

As for the body armor, I make an assumption that IF I were to ever sell this, the buyer would be buying it in order to use it like I did. Therefore, the armor is staying. If I were buying a Jeep, I'd rather have the $1k in armor than a bunch of holes. Regardless, resale hasn't ever entered the equation with this thing. It's mine, it's paid off, and it's got a whole wad of cash in it. It works, it works well, and does what I ask of it. That's all that matters to me.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #26
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Look man I'm not here to argue, just here to tell newer wheelers other options before they go and spend tons of money. I guarantee that for 10 grand I could build a rig and buy a truck and trailer to haul it to and from the trails.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:36 AM   #27
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My apologies, didn't know MO had their own definition for "show me." How hardcore.

Of course I know what you meant. Unfortunately, I'm beat from wheeling yesterday and can't drive out to MO today to show you in person so a few pics will have to do. Of course they don't do any justice since you're not seeing pics from the difficult stuff, but again, they'll have to do. Feel free to show me what your definition of difficult is.

As for the body armor, I make an assumption that IF I were to ever sell this, the buyer would be buying it in order to use it like I did. Therefore, the armor is staying. If I were buying a Jeep, I'd rather have the $1k in armor than a bunch of holes. Regardless, resale hasn't ever entered the equation with this thing. It's mine, it's paid off, and it's got a whole wad of cash in it. It works, it works well, and does what I ask of it. That's all that matters to me.


Our TJ's are nearly the same except I stuck with 33's. Like you my TJ can take just about any trail I put in front of it. My idea of capable change dramatically when I visited Area BFE last summer. You could certainly wheel your TJ on 35's at BFE but you will be watching REAL rigs attempt some insane obstacles.

A lot can be said for both schools of thought. That is why I intend to have both a TJ that can go like mad and look good doing it and a YJ on Rocks and 49's
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:54 AM   #28
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Look man I'm not here to argue, just here to tell newer wheelers other options before they go and spend tons of money. I guarantee that for 10 grand I could build a rig and buy a truck and trailer to haul it to and from the trails.
And I guarantee I could not. We've gone over this before....our definitions of a trail rig differ quite a bit. $10 would take care of my axles, diffs, and steering. There's still quite a bit remaining, including a link suspension. No leafs for me.
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Our TJ's are nearly the same except I stuck with 33's. Like you my TJ can take just about any trail I put in front of it. My idea of capable change dramatically when I visited Area BFE last summer. You could certainly wheel your TJ on 35's at BFE but you will be watching REAL rigs attempt some insane obstacles.
Notice I said 95%. I'm cool with "real rigs" being able to do things I can't do. There are some things that I can do and they can't, and that's what I want out of it. I assure you that my future buggy/juggy will be a "real rig." As for insane obstacles, I appreciate those. I bent my rear truss on what most would consider a pretty insane obstacle. A Yota buggy on 40's and plenty of wheelbase tried after me and didn't make it as far as I did before backing off. His junk suspension and worn TSL's didn't help him.

And no offense, you've got a nice rig--but I don't think ours are nearly the same.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:02 PM   #29
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And I guarantee I could not. We've gone over this before....our definitions of a trail rig differ quite a bit. $10 would take care of my axles, diffs, and steering. There's still quite a bit remaining, including a link suspension. No leafs for me.
I dont use leafs either on my trail rigs. You could spend 10K on axles and steering? Holy buttlips batman....please let me guide you when you go to bigger stuff, I'd hate to see you spend so much on so little.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:16 PM   #30
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Well, let's see....

Build me a Ford HP60 front with ARB, RCV's, Reid knuckles, and 4340 heat treated chromolly linkage with a PSC box, ram, cooler, and pump, good new calipers, rotors and pads and FF14 rear with ARB, disc brakes, and full-width trusses on both. Link mounts also mounted where I want them. And I want the 14 trimmed. Good luck with that budget.

Also, 14" ORI's, 4340 heat treated lower links with JJ's at both ends, 2" x .5" wall uppers with JJ's at both ends, and a rear link crossmember for my dual triangulated setup (undecided on if I would go dual or single on the buggy). 3 link and panhard bar up front...heat treated panhard please.

Oh, and some 40" MTR Kevlars on 17x9 Racelines.

It won't be a cheap rig dude. For that kind of money, might as well just order up a Currie RJ70 rear and RJ60 front and build those. Bigger tubes, F450 outers, pimp diffs. Again, it won't be a cheap rig no matter how you look at it.

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