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Old 09-01-2007, 12:53 AM   #1
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im new to manuals i want to make sure everything is ok.

keep in mind i dont know anything about clutches just how to drive them. not too new to em but never owned one before. i can drive one fine but sometimes like in 1st and i push the clutch back in it will kinda clunk. is that a bad thing? i was told from the previous owner its a new clutch.

other than that is it bad to down shift to slow down or to shift quicker to try and save gas and bring to rpms to like 1700 or so. i also read that its bad to let the clutch out a little bit to keep me from rolling back on a hill. is that true?

basically i just want to know the dos and donts of manuals.

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Old 09-01-2007, 01:01 AM   #2
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http://www.edmunds.com/advice/youngd...0/article.html

http://www.10w40.com/individual/100186.asp

http://www.standardshift.com/faq.html

A couple of these links start out with some basic MT driving tips that might be common knowledge but there are several things that first time owners should know. Good one about common myths.

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Old 09-01-2007, 02:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmer View Post
i can drive one fine but sometimes like in 1st and i push the clutch back in it will kinda clunk. is that a bad thing?.
like you are in traffic and you go up to 10-15 miles and let go of the gas and step on the clutch and you hear the clunk? Thats just backlash in the gears inside the gearbox..


btw wranglers tend to have loud gear box so if you notice low grinding noise coming from the gear box that disappears when you step on the clutch.. its normal.


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is it bad to down shift to slow down
Unless you can match the rpm of the engine with the rpm of the gearbox and hold brakes at the same time. Don't do it. Just shift to neutral and hold the brakes. Usually what i would do is slow down with the brakes and stay in the gear i'm in and just let go of the gas so you also use the engines drag to slow down and once the rpm goes down to 1200-1300 i shift to neutral and continue slowing down with the brakes. I've heard when the engine is decelerating its not getting any fuel at all. When i'm hyper I do heel and toe to match the rpms but thats a bit hard to do so i woudlnt recomend it for beginers.

I believe if you try to take your licence in a manual you have to hold the brake (to signal you are slowing down) and downshift otherwise its considered "out of control" since its not in gear so if you just shift to neutral and slow down with the brakes they might cry about it. I do it whenever i get lazy or try to save gas.

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to shift quicker to try and save gas and bring to rpms to like 1700 or so.
Shifting too fast/slow also wears out the clutch faster. You shift fast and the engine it self hasnt slowed down enough, you gotta scrub the clutch again so the rpm of the engine slows down and the rpm of the gear box speeds up. The best way that i shift is to try to match the rpms. The way i learned is let say you are on first gear and you step on the clutch and let go of the gas and shift to 2nd. When you let go of the clutch if the rig feels like it kicks you in the back then you are shifting too fast so shift slower. On the other side you shift from 1st to 2nd and the rig just feels like you just slammed on the brakes there.. than you are shifting too slow so shift faster.

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also read that its bad to let the clutch out a little bit to keep me from rolling back on a hill. is that true?
so you are uphill and holding the clutch down and the rig in 1st gear on a red light?

Shift to Neutral and just hold the brakes there. When the light turns green continue holding the brakes with your right foot step on the clutch shuv it in 1st gear and slowly let off the clutch just so you feel the rpm of the engine slowing down at which point you can ease up on the brakes and step on the gas.

When i was complete beginner and wanst used to the clutch and the engine would die out on me (my learner car didnt have much low end torque either) so what i used to was i would pull the hand brake and when the light turns green i would hold the clutch shuv it in first and then control the gas and the clutch at the same time and control the braking with the hand brake.

Now i am pretty used to manual so i practice doing "heel and toe" again. Pretty much left foot is only for the clutch. The right foot controls the gas and the brakes. Well i bend my right foot and control the brakes and the gas at the same time.


Heel and toe is also useful for slowing down to turn and then kick the gas to match the rpms for the new gear...

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Old 09-01-2007, 03:21 AM   #4
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Don't use your clutch for a brake, it will only wear out sooner. You can actually shift without the clutch, if you time it just right.
Practice your shifting, different engines have different shift-points. Some engines like high RPM's. Some don't. The 4.0 doesn't like high RPM's, all the power is designed to be at the bottom end of the power curve (torque). Use the least amount of accellerator pedal possible to get you moving for the best possible milage.
It is not a bad thing to use your engine as a brake. You shift up or down to keep your engine at the most efficient power band.
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Old 09-01-2007, 03:27 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjseel View Post
Don't use your clutch for a brake, it will only wear out sooner. You can actually shift without the clutch, if you time it just right.
Practice your shifting, different engines have different shift-points. Some engines like high RPM's. Some don't. The 4.0 doesn't like high RPM's, all the power is designed to be at the bottom end of the power curve (torque). Use the least amount of accellerator pedal possible to get you moving for the best possible milage.
It is not a bad thing to use your engine as a brake. You shift up or down to keep your engine at the most efficient power band.

my buddy does that with his jeep. he can shift without using the clutch but i cant. but i do shift just fine with it..lol

by the way, theres nothing you can do while driving a clutch that is "good" on it...only things that dont wear it down as fast
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:36 AM   #6
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triple88a had some good answers.
Its not good on the clutch to downshift, unless you match the revs really good. I jus slow down in the gear I am in, using engine compression, until the engine drops close to stall point ( around 700 rpm) then press the clutch.
At a red light, its not good to hold the clutch out to hold yourself on a hill, but sometimes idiots get so close that you don't have a choice.
And like dw said, nothing is good on a clutch, its a part that is designed to take wear ( so your engine and transmission don't).
Another pointer, at a red light, don't leave it in gear and press the clutch, put it in nuetral and let off the clutch, it saves the throw out bearing.
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:19 AM   #7
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i have to say thank you to you guys, i learned a lot, i can do the clutch part of it, from my CJ, but i didnt know any of the stuff about what ot do when slowing down etc, b/c we HAD to use the eng ine to slow down, and there were not stop lights etc.
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Old 09-01-2007, 10:04 AM   #8
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Last night after i posted this i watched a movie that made a good point. Use your brakes to slow down instead of your transmission. Brakes pads cost ~40 bucks a pair while a transmission is much more than that so brakes are cheaper to fix than the transmission.
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Old 09-01-2007, 04:16 PM   #9
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alright thanks for all this info. i normally when on hills let the clutch out maybe 1/2 to 1 inch and ill feel it start to grab then let off the brake and hit the gas and it wont roll back at all.

and i was at a gas station today and heard some guys wrangler also clunk coming up to the stop sign so im glad thats not a bad deal.

and i did notice that at like 2000 rpms you can hear the gearbox kinda spinning is how i would call it--- and i was worried about that too but thanks to all this info im pretty relieved now.
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Old 09-01-2007, 04:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmer View Post
and i was at a gas station today and heard some guys wrangler also clunk coming up to the stop sign so im glad thats not a bad deal
I'm guessing he just let go of the gas so the clunk was from the back lash in the gears.
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Old 09-01-2007, 05:56 PM   #11
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Last night after i posted this i watched a movie that made a good point. Use your brakes to slow down instead of your transmission. Brakes pads cost ~40 bucks a pair while a transmission is much more than that so brakes are cheaper to fix than the transmission.
A transmission takes very little wear slowing down, engine compression provides a fraction of the force it applies when accelerating.
Shifting, either up or down, is also going to cause very little wear to a clutch.
It's always a good idea to keep your vehicle in a gear, you never know when you may need to accelerate to avoid an accident, or a light changes and you forget which gear to go to next.
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:19 PM   #12
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It's always a good idea to keep your vehicle in a gear, you never know when you may need to accelerate to avoid an accident, or a light changes and you forget which gear to go to next.
thats why heel and toe comes in handy many times .
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:31 PM   #13
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No, that's why they put synchros in trannies.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:17 PM   #14
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No, that's why they put synchros in trannies.
youre thinking of the wrong thing man. double cluthing is to save syncrose. Heel and toe has nuthing to do with the syncrose. When downshifting you are at a higher gear so lower rpm and you need to go to lower gear thats at a higher rpm so you need to speed up the engine a bit. I use heel and toe to do that so i can control the brakes and the gas at the same time so i match the revs instead of obusing the clutch by letting it slip and help the engine catch up. It's quite nice when you dont have any jerking around
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:28 PM   #15
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Ever drive a semi? we have no synchros, we have to match engine speed to road speed in order to successfully shift.
That's where double clutching came from and the reason for it.
The stresses put on the clutch and tranny during deceleration are minuscule compared to the stresses from normal acceleration. What you might save in wear and tear don't come anywhere near what you risk by trying to operate two peddles simultaneously with one foot.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:34 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
What you might save in wear and tear don't come anywhere near what you risk by trying to operate two peddles simultaneously with one foot.
I'm sorry i gues i just know how to do it. It's confusing at first and it looks confusing but once you're used to it. Its quite hard to mess up because even if your heel slips you have your toes on the brakes. Again once you do it few times it becomes so slow.

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Old 09-01-2007, 07:45 PM   #17
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Like I said, I have no synchros in the semi, in fact I don't even use the clutch in the semi except to stop and start. I have no choice but to match the road speed with engine speed in order to shift.
I do not try to manipulate 2 peddles at once., If I need the brakes I need my foot on the brakes not just my toes. toes can slip off.
You are not driving a race car, you are not driving a semi, you have sychros so you don't need to match road speed to engine speed to shift.
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:15 PM   #18
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That is one of the gayest movie scenes I've ever scene!
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
You are not driving a race car, you are not driving a semi, you have sychros so you don't need to match road speed to engine speed to shift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a
sychros are for double clutching.. heel and toe is different...
...
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:10 PM   #20
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The only difference between heel and toe is whether the clutch peddle is depressed. you are attempting to match engine speed to road speed plain and simple.
They do it in race cars to avoid loss of traction when going into corners at high speed.
They do it in semis and old cars without synchros because that's the only way to shift. It's all the same goal, Match engine speed to road speed.
You may feel it's different but it's not.
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Old 09-01-2007, 10:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
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That's where double clutching came from and the reason for it.


actaully double clutching came form old cars that didnt have syncros, even b4 they had huge semis
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Old 09-01-2007, 11:11 PM   #22
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That is one of the gayest movie scenes I've ever scene!
I was watching it, going to say the same exact thing and then I saw your post and just lost it.
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:07 AM   #23
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My .02
The heel and toe method is not recommended for beginners.
For starting out on a steep hill you have an easily acessable
e-brake, put the e-brake on leave out clutch slightly until you hear the engine rpm drop or feel it grab, leave hand brake off and go! Same pricncipal maybe a little easier.
You will not harm the engine by using it to slow down, I strongly recommend keeping it in a gear, if you ever had a vehicle that the brakes went out on a steep hill you at least will have some control instead of gaining speed.
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:19 PM   #24
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One last piece of advice (apart from the whole heel 'n toe discussion):

you will definitely want to ignore the stupid yellow arrow in the cluster trying to tell you that it's time to shift up. If I followed that suggestion I'd be driving around in 5th gear anytime I go faster than 35 mph
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:22 PM   #25
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they wont let you do the ebrake method on your driving test, i asked my driving instructor, so im gonna have ot get heel-toe down int he next 8 weeks!
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:32 PM   #26
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they wont let you do the ebrake method on your driving test, i asked my driving instructor, so im gonna have ot get heel-toe down int he next 8 weeks!
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard - from a safe driving perspective. You are so much more likely (as an unexperienced manual driver) to slip off a pedal using heel and toe and then hit the wrong pedal in a panic then you are doing it wrong with the handbrake - worst thing to happen there is you kill the engine.
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:34 PM   #27
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wel im nto sure its about that, its about them having control of the ebrake at all times incase u skrew up!
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:52 PM   #28
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Derek, i gotta agree with Catoct here. Heel and toe is NOT to be used until you at least get used to drive manual comfortably. I didn't try learning it until 2 months ago.. i've been driving manual for about 2 and a half years.

Instead of doing heel and toe or pulling the hand brake. Here is another safer way than doing heel and toe and i think its acceptable when taking your drivers license.

When the light turns green continue holding the brakes with your right foot step on the clutch, shuv it in 1st gear and slowly let off the clutch just so you feel the rpm of the engine slowing down at which point you can ease up on the brakes and put your foot on the gas.

Something else. If you have to stop in a hurry (something runs in front or some one stops or whatever the case might be) always step on both pedals. Clutch and Brake instead of just the brake, reason being is once the clutch is pressed the engine wont be putting unnecessary load against the brakes so it stops more efficiently/faster.
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catoct View Post
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard - from a safe driving perspective. You are so much more likely (as an unexperienced manual driver) to slip off a pedal using heel and toe and then hit the wrong pedal in a panic then you are doing it wrong with the handbrake - worst thing to happen there is you kill the engine.
x100000

Just drive normal. Under no circumstances is it worth the risk of heel and toe driving in everyday driving situations. You know who does Heel and Toe when driving around town? The same idiot that gets themselves killed by skidding off the road in their civic at 130mph because they were concentrating on being in the fast and furious 9 and not paying attention to driving their damn car like a human.

Also, I may be wrong, but I believe if you tried to do heel and toe while in a driving test, you would fail. It is not safe practice to drive with both feet. The point being that if you drive with one foot you can only use the brake OR the gas, not both. This is what they told us in driver's ed so many years ago. Things do change, but I doubt that's one of them.
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Triple88a View Post
...If you have to stop in a hurry (something runs in front or some one stops or whatever the case might be) always step on both pedals. Clutch and Brake instead of just the brake, reason being is once the clutch is pressed the engine wont be putting unnecessary load against the brakes so it stops more efficiently/faster.
Actually you stop faster by hitting JUST the brake. Hit the clutch right before the stall. The resistance of the engine helps to slow you down. Try it and you'll see. Drive normal and let off the gas, see how u slow down. Now try letting off the gas while pushing in the clutch, you'll coast faster.

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