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Old 11-23-2011, 05:50 PM   #1
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in there something wrong? coil question

So like 2 weeks ago a 4wheelparts store install 4 daystar 1.75'' spacers in my 02 TJ. I must say it wasnt a good service at all, because of the information they gave me, they make me buy wheel spacers the day of the install but didnt tell me that before. so they leave me no choice but to buy them because the spacers where already installed.

Back to the problem.:
I noticed something unsual with my front coils. This is the pic:
Im not shure but they doesnt seem to be aligned. I think they might not be centered like they suposed to be.
sorry if Im not make in it clear. but here is the pic.


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Old 11-23-2011, 05:51 PM   #2
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another one:


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Old 11-23-2011, 05:54 PM   #3
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Are you talking about the slight arc in the coils? If so, that is normal after installing a suspension lift. Why did you need the wheel spacers? Did 4WP also install bigger/wider tires at the same time?
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:00 PM   #4
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Are you talking about the slight arc in the coils? If so, that is normal after installing a suspension lift. Why did you need the wheel spacers? Did 4WP also install bigger/wider tires at the same time?
Yes, they seem like ''off center'' dont now how to explain it.
And for the spacers, they told me that it was because of my wheels.(STOCK) and their backspace, but my problem is that they have the time to tell me when I was ordering the spacers and getting the appointment for the install. but they didnt they wait for the install , and then told me that the spacers were necesary, so I had to pay 90 dllrs. for them.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:02 PM   #5
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Again, did you have wider tires installed? Either way, exactly what size tires are you running now?
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:04 PM   #6
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Again, did you have wider tires installed? Either way, exactly what size tires are you running now?
No, didnt install new tires, im running 31'' pirelli muds.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:05 PM   #7
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If those are 31x10.50 tires, you did not need wheel spacers.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:11 PM   #8
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If those are 31x10.50 tires, you did not need wheel spacers.
Yes they are 31x10.50 , but they show me that if I leave the jeep that way the body of the jeep will cut them, not exactly the body but the piece that is where the coil ends (UP). I put my hand in there and it didnt fit, If I move the jeep like that the tires as I said seem to be getting cut.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:11 PM   #9
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sounds like they got ya. id go back and tell them to take them off and show you exactly why you needed them. i doubt they'll rub. if not id complain to management
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:12 PM   #10
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sounds like they got ya. id go back and tell them to take them off and show you exactly why you needed them. i doubt they'll rub. if not id complain to management
they do rub. Just the back tires, but dont know why, they did not supossed to rub.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:15 PM   #11
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If they rub after the lift They should have rubbed before as well. Your talking about the upper cool perch? That seems odd I have never heard of rubbing there.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglerTX

they do rub. Just the back tires, but dont know why, they did not supossed to rub.
How do you know if the spacers were already installed when u got them.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:17 PM   #13
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Yes they are 31x10.50 , but they show me that if I leave the jeep that way the body of the jeep will cut them, not exactly the body but the piece that is where the coil ends (UP). I put my hand in there and it didnt fit, If I move the jeep like that the tires as I said seem to be getting cut.
Is that true on both sides? A suspension lift will move the axle to the side a tad which can make one tire closer to the coil spring bucket than the other. The correct fix for that is a track bar relocation bracket to recenter the axle, not wheel spacers.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:19 PM   #14
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Is that true on both sides? A suspension lift will move the axle to the side a tad which can make one tire closer to the coil spring bucket than the other. The correct fix for that is a track bar relocation bracket to recenter the axle, not wheel spacers.
Actually no, just one side was rubbing. But the only solution they gave me was the spacers.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:23 PM   #15
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Let me take a picture of the back of the jeep, the axles, maybe that can help? Cause If i didnt need the spacers I need to go and tell them , Im not thinking in wasting 100 dllrs in something it doesnt need.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglerTX
Let me take a picture of the back of the jeep, the axles, maybe that can help? Cause If i didnt need the spacers I need to go and tell them , Im not thinking in wasting 100 dllrs in something it doesnt need.
You'll still need the bracket Jerry mentioned but it will be much cheaper.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:28 PM   #17
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Actually no, just one side was rubbing. But the only solution they gave me was the spacers.
Idiots, they should have suggested a rear track bar relocation bracket for less $$$ which would have moved the axle back over a tad which would have recentered it. No wonder so many complain about 4WP.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:29 PM   #18
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I'll take pictures and post em up in the night. what that bracket? Cause they also told be to buy some bolts, bought em, I'll take pictures of them, because they salesman told me that if I didnt put them on the tires will not be align and the wear on them will not be right . For that 30 dllrs. maybe thats what you are talking about?
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:34 PM   #19
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the circle: where the tire was rubing
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:36 PM   #20
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ANd the bolts that they also make me bought:
You can see the easyli. the shiny ones.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:39 PM   #21
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you've lifted it. the axles aren't centered anymore because the track bars are effectively too short. they also installed the cam bolts backwards, you now have less caster than stock. they're idiots.

get a relocation bracket for the rear, and make sure you have bumpstop extensions front and rear. fronts should be 1" extension, rear should be 2" extension. get an alignment, and turn the cam bolts to the proper location.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:42 PM   #22
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you've lifted it. the axles aren't centered anymore because the track bars are effectively too short. they also installed the cam bolts backwards, you now have less caster than stock. they're idiots.

get a relocation bracket for the rear, and make sure you have bumpstop extensions front and rear. fronts should be 1" extension, rear should be 2" extension.
Yes, a week later I also noticed the bumpstops. Definetly never coming back to that store. What do you mean by less caster? The bolts were neccesary?
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:52 PM   #23
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Yes, a week later I also noticed the bumpstops. Definetly never coming back to that store. What do you mean by less caster? The bolts were neccesary?
the bolts were likely not necessary, but they are sometimes. caster is the "return-to-center" of the steering...basically how fast it returns to center after you make a turn. If the caster is too low, the jeep feels really squirrely and will dart around, and the tires will want to follow every uneven groove in the road. You'll feel in less control of the vehicle at highway speeds.

they should have checked the caster on an alignment rack before recommending the cam bolts. if caster was at 6-6.5° after the lift, you wouldn't need them. if it was 4.5-5°, then ok fine you'd need them.

whats really bad is they installed them BACKWARDS! So you probably have 4° caster now, or less. The cam bolts get you ~1.5° caster in either direction. they effectively shortened your lower control arms, lowering the caster...when they should have lengthened them to increase caster.

the cam should be pointing toward the front of the vehicle, to essentially "lengthen" the control arms. and they should only be turned enough to get you back to 7° caster, like stock.

here's what they should look like:


Get the bumpstops fixed, if they didn't install them front and rear, get the relocation bracket and take it to an alignment shop to have them fix the cam bolts and readjust toe. You need to reset toe after changing caster.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:59 PM   #24
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4WP strikes again.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:13 AM   #25
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Thanks for the help. That sounds like more money
definetly never going back to that store.!!

I'll check another one locally. See if they can help me, cause Im kinda learning this jeep things, thats the bad side, they lie or dont know anything about jeeps , just want your money for no help at all.


But getting back to the coil. Is that correct the way it is?
Another bad thing wouldnt surprise me :s
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:37 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by wranglerTX
Thanks for the help. That sounds like more money
definetly never going back to that store.!!

I'll check another one locally. See if they can help me, cause Im kinda learning this jeep things, thats the bad side, they lie or dont know anything about jeeps , just want your money for no help at all.

But getting back to the coil. Is that correct the way it is?
Another bad thing wouldnt surprise me :s
The coil is correct. Basically because your lower coil perches are mounted on the axle and as your raise the jeep your stock control arms rotate. Which slightly rotates your axles. So your not lined up 100percent. And there are a few Other things that can contribute. But the moral is that your fine. I would look at the zone off road bumpstops they have 1 2 and 3 inch pairs very affordable. The bracket may be like 30. And fixing the caster bolts will be free. Make 4wp remove the wheel spacers and get your money back. An you'll have 30 or 40 bucks even after you get the above.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:58 AM   #27
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But getting back to the coil. Is that correct the way it is?
Another bad thing wouldnt surprise me :s
4WP's inept installation of the cam-bolts in front, and the subsequent caster problem, and the off-center front axle is causing the bow in the spring.

with proper caster and aligned bumpstops, what you perceive as a spring issue will be basically gone.

again, fix the terrible alignment/caster problem, get a relocation bracket, make sure 2" bumpstop extensions are installed in the rear, install 1" in front, and re-evaluate from there.

honestly, I'd go back there, raise hell and ask for a full refund. they'll want to fix it and try to make it up to you, but I suggest not giving them the keys to your jeep again. do your own homework, and install the parts yourself....everything to fix this could be done in 3 hrs or so with basic hand tools.
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Old 11-24-2011, 09:12 AM   #28
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Is it me or is that spacer off kilter on the factory isolater in the second pic? Maybe it's just the angle the pic was taken at??
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Old 11-24-2011, 11:00 AM   #29
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Is it me or is that spacer off kilter on the factory isolater in the second pic? Maybe it's just the angle the pic was taken at??
Maybe. Probably. Because the spring is pushing unevenly on it. If unlimited'a advise is followed it should be taken care of.
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Old 11-24-2011, 11:00 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04

4WP's inept installation of the cam-bolts in front, and the subsequent caster problem, and the off-center front axle is causing the bow in the spring.

with proper caster and aligned bumpstops, what you perceive as a spring issue will be basically gone.

again, fix the terrible alignment/caster problem, get a relocation bracket, make sure 2" bumpstop extensions are installed in the rear, install 1" in front, and re-evaluate from there.

honestly, I'd go back there, raise hell and ask for a full refund. they'll want to fix it and try to make it up to you, but I suggest not giving them the keys to your jeep again. do your own homework, and install the parts yourself....everything to fix this could be done in 3 hrs or so with basic hand tools.
I like how you always say the same thing I am trying to just better and more detailed

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