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Old 05-25-2011, 06:16 PM   #1
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Increasing Your Horsepower? Read

I think this has been discussed long enough to be eligible to be made a sticky. Can any mod make this happen?

The question always comes up, "will adding a cold air intake (CAI) or an exhaust add more horsepower to my Jeep?" Others ask about adding a supercharger or a turbo and maybe even swapping in a V-8.

I feel that we have come to the conclusion that intakes and exhaust may make your Jeep sound better but to increase your horsepower is another thing.

There is no doubt though that adding force induction to your Jeep will increase your HP as will swapping in a V-8.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is, from you more experienced or experts... How can you increase your horsepower on your Jeep Wrangler/ CJ? Please give facts or numbers on what to base your opinions on. We want to help new comers and those still debating on what to do next.

Again: HOW CAN YOU INCREASE YOUR HORSEPOWER ON YOUR JEEP WRANGLER/CJ?

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Old 05-25-2011, 06:22 PM   #2
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Has anyone tried decking the head on a 4.0L to increase the compression ratio?

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Old 05-25-2011, 07:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieldlg_13 View Post
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, from you more experienced or experts... How can you increase your horsepower on your Jeep Wrangler/ CJ? Please give facts or numbers on what to base your opinions on. We want to help new comers and those still debating on what to do next.

Again: HOW CAN YOU INCREASE YOUR HORSEPOWER ON YOUR JEEP WRANGLER/CJ?
Theres three things worth looking at:

1. Cam swap. Requires new valve springs specific to the cam duration to be installed. Requires a piggyback chip to tune. If you pull the head for this, you might as have a machine shop do a 3-angle valve job and port it.
2. Forced induction. Turbo/supercharger. Requires bigger injectors and piggyback chip to tune.
3. Stroker. Requires pulling the motor, full disassembly and machine work. Usually includes a valve job & head work with a performance cam...its all torn apart, so you might as well. Requires larger injectors and preferably a piggyback chip for tuning.

#1 will get you around 15-20hp/20 ft-lbs.
#2 will get you around 80-100 hp/ft-lbs depending on boost pressure, tuning & fuel grade.
#3 will get you around 40-150 hp/ft-lbs depending on bore, stroker, cam choice, tuning & fuel grade.

Building a high dollar stroker with a supercharger will get you about 200hp/320 ft-lbs at the wheels. Thats about a $10-12k engine and requires 93+ octane. You can get that on 87 octane with a V8 for $4k...which brings up the next point - strokers cost about $3-4k new. Depending what parts you use & who does the machine work you can stretch that down to $2k or so. Forced induction will run $1k for a cheapo DIY setup using a $150 chinese crappy turbo and you welding & fabrication most other parts. A well designed forced induction setup will run around $4-5k. The cam swap will run around $1k by the time you're done. If you have unlimited money and don't mind race gas or E-85, you could build a very high dollar boosted stroker that puts out around 700hp...one of the magazines did that...full standalone ECU and forged everything.

Also note the cam swap requires pulled the entire front of the jeep apart. Everything has to come off...radiator, front grill, everything on the front of the motor, including the timing chain.
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:41 PM   #4
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Also have to factor in the cost up drivetrain upgrades to handle a certain amount of power.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:12 PM   #5
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put a Chevy 350 motor in its cheaper and you'll have more HP then you'll know what to do with
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:20 PM   #6
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I would like to see someone with a 4BT jump in this discussion.....
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:42 PM   #7
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The magnum v8 is by far the cheapest, easiest swap for a 97-02 tj. Magnums came in many dodge and jeep vehicles. The pcm works with factory gages. Except for the motor mounts and the radiator this swap can be done with factory production parts found in salvage yard everywhere. I had a total of $1200. Into my swap, then sold my old engine and trans for $600. Bringing the final cost to $600. My 5.9 efi v8 makes 245hp, 335lb tq and reads obd2 like it came factory with a magnum v8.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:47 PM   #8
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I would like to see someone with a 4BT jump in this discussion.....
I don't have one, but i've researched it pretty extensively.

It can definitely be done, has been done, and works quite well. And yes you will need some beefy axles because you're looking at some serious torque. Burnsvilles Off-Road did a 4BT in a YJ, it had Waggy D44s. The 4BT made close to 500ft-lbs of torque...they said it was able to start from a stand still in 5th gear...

The easiest & cheapest swap is a Cummins 4BT w/ a NV4500 or TH700R4, used atlas or rebuilt Dana 300, D60 rear, D44 front. That is mostly bolt up...have to fab motor and trans mounts. Painless wiring and the harness from the donor vehicle would help. You would need to reinforce the frame quite a bit. The 4BT weighs about 750lbs, whereas the 4.0L weighs 450lbs...so its nearly twice the weight. This will have major considerations in spring rate in front end & frame reinforcement. You'll need stiffer springs up front, and a stock TJ D30 isn't going to be happy with 400 more lbs on it.

The 4BT comes standard with either 105 or 120hp usually....but its the same engine in marine applications that makes 250hp, just dial up the pump. They are completely mechanical, no computers or anything to break or fry. These things run in commercial generators wide open for years on end, for 10s of thousands of hours...stopping only for oil changes. Basically if you can find one with less than 200k miles on it, it should run another 200k miles before you need to think about taking it apart.
Another thing to think about...diesels don't make vacuum like the gassers, so you will either need a vacuum pump and a reserve, or hydroboost brakes. Also the gearing is totally different. You'd run 3.73s or 4.10s at the most with 35s.
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:51 AM   #9
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Good info from JGORM:
I did 18 dyno pulls on my jeep for intake testing. The end result is that you might gain a couple hp on average, but its not statistically significant in the least.
Jeep Wrangler 18 dyno pulls for CAI testing - Trick Tuners Forums



[code]
Condition Avg HP Avg TQ 3SD HP 3SD TQ
stock 140.92 177.49 2.79 3.68
No Horn 142.12 176.69 3.73 6.06
Tire pressure 146.96 181.20 2.07 10.54
No Intake 151.72 183.12 2.46 5.54
Cowl Intake 149.32 185.71 5.57 5.75[/code]
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:01 AM   #10
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You would need to reinforce the frame quite a bit. The 4BT weighs about 750lbs, whereas the 4.0L weighs 450lbs...so its nearly twice the weight. This will have major considerations in spring rate in front end & frame reinforcement. You'll need stiffer springs up front, and a stock TJ D30 isn't going to be happy with 400 more lbs on it.
I don't know that another 400 lbs is THAT much of a consideration, is it?

If you slap on some of the ridiculous front bumpers you and I have both seen on rigs, add a 9500 rated winch with steel cable, OBA via a York, dual batteries and a few other bits here and there, you're easily 400 lbs plus on the front axle, no?
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:04 AM   #11
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I have a K&N CAI, Quadratec Headers, and Flowmaster Exhaust. How much HP does that gain?

I bought the vehicle like this, I have the 4.0L, 33X12.50 and a 6" lift. It sounds really nice but im surprised how slow it is.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:12 AM   #12
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Why such a desire for more HP? I know most guys, probably lots on WF, that crawl with 42s and thier mostly stock 4.0s. If you want your Jeep to run a sub 11 second 1/4 mile then I can understand the urge.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:05 PM   #13
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Why such a desire for more HP? I know most guys, probably lots on WF, that crawl with 42s and thier mostly stock 4.0s. If you want your Jeep to run a sub 11 second 1/4 mile then I can understand the urge.
Thats great for crawlers, but I run sand dunes . If you try to crawl those you get nowhere fast.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Why such a desire for more HP? I know most guys, probably lots on WF, that crawl with 42s and thier mostly stock 4.0s. If you want your Jeep to run a sub 11 second 1/4 mile then I can understand the urge.
This thread is to give insight on what will and what will not give you desired HP. Also it will clear up (hopefully) this misconception that just adding a Cold Air Intake and exhaust will give you the necessary power that one was looking for.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by headbasha View Post
I have a K&N CAI, Quadratec Headers, and Flowmaster Exhaust. How much HP does that gain?

I bought the vehicle like this, I have the 4.0L, 33X12.50 and a 6" lift. It sounds really nice but im surprised how slow it is.
KNN CAI not only does nothing for your engine but actually hurts it. Headers meh, and lol exhaust..

Regear! Regear! Regear! It will bring your Jeep back to it's stock power.. If you want to gain HP's and Torque you will need to do a engine swap, stroke your 4.0, or put in a supercharger..
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Old 05-26-2011, 01:12 PM   #16
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I don't know that another 400 lbs is THAT much of a consideration, is it?

If you slap on some of the ridiculous front bumpers you and I have both seen on rigs, add a 9500 rated winch with steel cable, OBA via a York, dual batteries and a few other bits here and there, you're easily 400 lbs plus on the front axle, no?
I'm assuming one will be adding lots in accessories, plus 400lbs for the motor....just saying its something to consider. I couldn't see somebody dropping in a 4BT to run 3.07s, 31s and keeping all stock accessories...but at that point V8 ZJ springs might work. Not saying you need to swap in a Rockwell...but I'd want something bigger than 2.5x1/4" tube.

By reinforcing the frame, i'm talking plate the inside where the motor mounts are welded with 1/4" or 3/16". That 4BT is gonna vibrate a lot more than the 4.0L ever did on its worst day, and there will be a more significant mass concentrated in one area of the frame...you gotta fab the mounts anyway, might as well reinforce the frame for good measure. But maybe I'm overly-cautious I got nothing against diesels...i love em Wish Jeep sold one here. I'd be running that sucker on french fry grease.
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Old 05-26-2011, 01:17 PM   #17
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I posted this in a 4.0 thread, but it goes for most engines.

if you want HP... Generally (with most engines) you want to improve the entire fuel/air/exhaust path like this to maximize performance. Most people will add one or two of these things and wonder why it does not help that much. From the time the fuel/air comes in, to the the time it exits the muffler, this is its path and how to make it better.

high flow fuel pump (to get gas from the tank faster)
bigger carb/jets or turbo for fuel injection (to put it in the engine faster)
High flow air intake (to get better air flow to mix with the higher levels of fuel coming in)
high flow intake manifold (to allow faster flow of fuel/air mixure to the valves)
port and polish intake port (head) (faster more effective flow through head)
larger cam shaft (to open valves further to get more flow)
port and polish exhaust port (head) (to exit the burnt gasses faster)
headers (to exit the burnt gasses faster)

To really gain benefit from any of the above, you want all of the above. But also keep in mind, once your crankin' high HP you want a strong bottom end. Good crank/bearings, good rods, stronger pistons, etc... You can also get racing pistons shaped to help speed up the flow through the cylinders as the gasses come in, burn then exit. Sounds like a lot but HP isn't cheap! Especially when things start breaking!
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Old 05-26-2011, 01:27 PM   #18
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very nice thread!
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sevenservices View Post
I posted this in a 4.0 thread, but it goes for most engines.

if you want HP... Generally (with most engines) you want to improve the entire fuel/air/exhaust path like this to maximize performance. Most people will add one or two of these things and wonder why it does not help that much. From the time the fuel/air comes in, to the the time it exits the muffler, this is its path and how to make it better.
Chris,

I couldnt agree with you more. After conciderable research, I finally built a Hesco 4.6 stroker.

My recomendation is to call Bernie at hesco, He's is a great guy and wealth of information and parts.

They make a couple of cams as well as some custom pushrods for those that want to deck the block. They did a custom grind for mine as i pull a trailer....

Best thing and money I ever spent on my Jeep.
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:46 PM   #20
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With my dyno testing I conclusively proved that there are no gains to be had with the intake system. Even with NO intake there were no statistical gains. Another thing to think about depends on what state you live in. Sure a 302 or 350 swap would be a cheap way to gain a bunch of power, but its not smog legal in CA and many other states. Most engine swaps are not smog legal. From what I have found out it needs to be from the same manufacturer, (DCX) from a newer year, and retain all the smog crap and ecu from the donor vehicle. A 5.7 hemi swap would be pretty damn bad ass. SRT8 swap anybody? I might throw a turbo on mine for a while. Seems like it be fun to see how far I could push it with the stock guts. The 05 and 06 jeeps can be flash tuned and don't need a piggyback system. Piggybacks sometimes leave a lot to be desired. If you want to go cheap, fill her up with 91 octane and spray a 50 shot with the stock tune. I bet it would work just fine.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:30 AM   #21
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I've been considering using higher ratio rockers for more valve lift. It would also need stronger valve springs to get them closed faster.
It would accomplish about the same thing as a taller cam. I've been told there's enough room to do it safely. But check it first.
Since it's fuel injected, increasing the valve duration or even retarding the cam slightly will cause intake vacuum to become "too bumpy", driving the MAP sensor nuts! (It really makes a rough idle) Increasing lift doesn't affect it as much.

I've done it on several engines - but they were all carbed, and not a 4.0.
It's a cheap and easy project that works.

But - check the valve clearances first! Valve to piston clearance.

I'm told mustang rockers are similar and have the slightly higher ratio. I'm not sure if the hole the pushrod goes through is open enough, check it too. They may have to be opened up a little.
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:04 AM   #22
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Nitrous Oxide

aka NOS
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:22 AM   #23
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Nitrous Oxide

aka NOS
You mean NAWWWWWS right?
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:24 AM   #24
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In my 1990 YJ I pulled the 4.2 and threw a worked Hemi in. I went from
10mpg to almost 20mpg. Granted I do run on 93 octane. But I have almost 450hp on tap. And if you take it to get emissions ran on it, it even shows the Jeeps V.I.N. number. And California if the worst state on the union. I'd rather live in Mexico.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:25 AM   #25
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"""""I'd rather live in Mexico. """""
The only place that has more Mexicans than East LA is Mexico City.

To do an engine swap in California, there are rules to follow, but unlike in some states it's legal. After it's in compliance, they give you a sticker the smog station uses to test it next time.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:38 AM   #26
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It's legal in most states. Just each state has its own rules. Hemi's fit perfectly on a YJ. Even bolts up to a 231. It does clock a 231 down a bit. That helps with front driveline angle though. Pretty much everything else goes back were it came from when you put it back together. I even put on in my Dakota. Fit perfect. Even plugged into the power distribution center. Truck fired right up. No codes. All factory gauges work. That's your answer to a lack of horsepower.
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:32 PM   #27
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You mean NAWWWWWS right?
yes sir, the kind that explodes when in a green eclipse and takes rapid gun fire from Asian men on dirtbikes. The kind that makes blue flames shoot from your exhaust.

=P hahahaha
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:48 PM   #28
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yes sir, the kind that explodes when in a green eclipse and takes rapid gun fire from Asian men on dirtbikes. The kind that makes blue flames shoot from your exhaust.

=P hahahaha
And it can put you in Hyperdrive when you push the Naawwws button, which makes everything look like you are in a wormhole!!! Ah, to live 10 seconds at a time would be bliss...
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:54 PM   #29
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Man, you just need a cold air intake. I made this one myself!
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:04 PM   #30
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That's awesome.

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