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Old 07-05-2014, 12:25 PM   #1
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Is 93 Octane worth the extra money?

Should I use 87 or 93 octane? I use 93 but would be nice to save the money if it would not cause performance issues. 2004 TJ X 4.0L about 116,00 miles. Auto, A/C.

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Old 07-05-2014, 12:33 PM   #2
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87 is all you need anything else is a waste of money.

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Old 07-05-2014, 12:38 PM   #3
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The 4.0 runs best with 85 since it isnt a Hipro engine!
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:11 PM   #4
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Octane level is an indicator of the fuel resistance to ignition. High compression, forced induction, and engines with advanced timing require higher octane to resist preignition and detonation. There is no more "power" in higher octane fuel. Your engine only needs 87.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:11 PM   #5
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:16 PM   #6
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Negative ghost rider. If you wanna spend extra cash on fuel then buy non-ethanol. It's more efficient, but not enough to justify the cost IMO.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:22 PM   #7
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If you have a high compression motorcycle or corvette, 91 to 93 octane is usually called for. On a TJ, basically, your Jeep engine (loose tolerances, inefficient, tractor-like) has no idea what to do with 93 octane but to just burn it inefficiently. It needs no more than 87 octane to be happy. Keep the extra 20-30 cents per gallon in your pocket and out of Exxon's.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:29 PM   #8
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Neil F. nailed it. Stop wasting your money on high octane gas.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:52 PM   #9
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I run 93 octane in my chevelle. As you can imagine there is a slight performance difference between our TJs and a vehicle that actually requires high octane fuel.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:00 AM   #10
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Damn pretty Chevelle! I run cheap 87 from the lowest priced station. I've tried running higher priced gas from a brand name. No difference in mileage or performance.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:14 AM   #11
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I run 85.5 because that's the cheap stuff here. It runs fine on that. I pay an extra 3 cents to get it from the no ethanol stations, and my 2.5 runs about 18 mpg in town and 22 highway average. If I'm pulling my ATV its down around 15 & 19 or so.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Cole View Post
I run 93 octane in my chevelle. As you can imagine there is a slight performance difference between our TJs and a vehicle that actually requires high octane fuel.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:34 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Rickys03svt.cobra View Post
nice 69 chevelle , I hope it has a big block in it .
wouldnt it be a malibu if it didnt?

general rule of thumb, run the lowest fuel that an engine can run on and not ping. for a TJ, 87 is fine and the lowest available to me.

my 68 firebird requires 93 plus octane booster or lead additive due to a 12.75:1 compression ratio. anything less sounds like there are marbles floating around in the engine. if you dont know that noise, you've problem never used to low of an octane level.

personally, i stick to gas stations that have their own tanker trucks, Shell, BP, Mobil. otherwise all the discount gas is the same stuff no matter where you get it
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:47 AM   #14
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As everyone here has already stated, use the lower octane gas. Do, however, on occasion, run a bottle of fuel injector cleaner through a tankful of gas just to keep things cleaned out. I like Chevron's Techron myself.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:06 AM   #15
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I've owned both a 90 4.2 and 60th black, with over 300k miles using 87octane exculsively. With a bottle of STP complete fuel system cleaner every other oil change and never had any issues in regards to fuel.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:59 AM   #16
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There's no need any more, and there hasn't been in many years, to add more fuel injector cleaning additives to the gasoline. Modern major brand gasolines all contain more than enough fuel injector cleaners to keep them clean. The EPA even mandated that back in '94 or so.

Dirty/clogged injectors used to be a favorite topic of mine to chat about with the mechanics of the Jeep & truck dealerships I used to have as customers. Newer mechanics all agreed they had never seen a clogged or dirty injector and the old mechanics all agreed it had been many years since they had seen one.

And those $120 fuel injection cleaning jobs all the new car dealerships push? That's just a quick way for them to earn about $100 in profit. That job simply isn't needed any more.

And yep, avoid higher than 87 octane. Here's a few facts about octane that few realize... that a higher octane burns more slowly, and that it is harder to ignite than a lower octane gas is. As such, running a higher octane than is required can actually cause more deposits to be left behind in the engine. Octane is added to fuel to make it harder to ignite so it won't ignite prematurely from over-compression in a high-compression engine.

Gasoline producers have been laughing all the way to the bank ever since they learned calling a higher octane gasoline something like "Supreme" can fool the masses into thinking it's a better grade of gasoline worth paying for for normal engines, it's not. The earn an extra ten cents a gallon of gasoline for something that costs them an extra penny per gallon to add.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:12 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
There's no need any more, and there hasn't been in many years, to add more fuel injector cleaning additives to the gasoline. Modern major brand gasolines all contain more than enough fuel injector cleaners to keep them clean. The EPA even mandated that back in '94 or so.

Dirty/clogged injectors used to be a favorite topic of mine to chat about with the mechanics of the Jeep & truck dealerships I used to have as customers. Newer mechanics all agreed they had never seen a clogged or dirty injector and the old mechanics all agreed it had been many years since they had seen one.

And those $120 fuel injection cleaning jobs all the new car dealerships push? That's just a quick way for them to earn about $100 in profit. That job simply isn't needed any more.

And yep, avoid higher than 87 octane. Here's a few facts about octane that few realize... that a higher octane burns more slowly, and that it is harder to ignite than a lower octane gas is. As such, running a higher octane than is required can actually cause more deposits to be left behind in the engine. Octane is added to fuel to make it harder to ignite so it won't ignite prematurely from over-compression in a high-compression engine.

Gasoline producers have been laughing all the way to the bank ever since they learned calling a higher octane gasoline something like "Supreme" can fool the masses into thinking it's a better grade of gasoline worth paying for for normal engines, it's not. The earn an extra ten cents a gallon of gasoline for something that costs them an extra penny per gallon to add.
Jerry,I generally always agree with you BUT,I did a injector cleaning using the BG injector cleaner which is 2 parts(did it myself).The machine screws into the fuel pressure port and then you disable the f/p so its running on just the cleaner.I did it on my XJ,4.0.Before the cleaning I got barely 16.0 mpg.Right after doing the cleaning I now get 16.8 to 17.0 mpg.I havent notived any increase in power but my fuel mileage has def increased.Keep in mind I dont work for BG or have any other reason to give positive input on it.Just the facts.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:36 PM   #18
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I've been considering something like that BG cleaning when I hit 60k miles here soon, along with replacing all fluids. I've seen it used to good effect on TV shows like Wheeler Dealers, which wouldn't really have any reason to over hype it since they never mention brand names. Motorweek also recently did a segment where they put a camera into a new engine and one with like 50k miles on it, and there was a significant difference in carbon buildup...
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:15 PM   #19
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Not everyone will agree with my contention that the fuel injectors don't usually ever need a separate cleaning operation but I'm sticking to my guns on that.

Fuel injector cleaning additives/cleaners are hyped by the auto parts stores and TV automotive programs because they make more $$$ or keep their sponsors happy. Even if the typical Saturday morning automotive TV programs don't mention a brand-name, such "fluff" is just a simple and easy/inexpensive way to fill air time and attract viewers which keeps the advertisers/sponsors happy no matter what the subject is. Few weekend wrenchers realize their injectors don't normally need extra cleaning so they swallow everything said on such programs and then pass it on as the gospel because they saw it on TV. I have to laugh at much of the "tech" on such TV programs which is usually beginner oriented and often questionable at best.
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:37 PM   #20
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I buy most all of my gas from Costco. When I had a Ford 3.0L pickup it seemed to get more miles per gallon than other brands. Now with my Jeep I don't know I think I get about 10 miles per gallon maybe a bit more. I have now learned what fun per gallon means compared to miles per gallon...LOL. I loved my pickup but so glad to get rid of all that wasted space in the back and nobody can bug me to help them now. I turn my head in my Jeep and I can see where it ends. I love the way it handles, I am a short guy and it fits me like a glove.
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Old 07-08-2014, 04:13 AM   #21
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I used to drive 120 miles per day, back and forth to work.
I did this for 11 years.
I went through several vehicles, and a lot of gasoline.
I found that the higher octane fuels from Amoco (ultimate) , and Shell (premium), offered a slightly higher MPG , and this offset their higher cost per gallon.

In other words, it cost no more to use premium fuel.

I now own a 2006 jeep wrangler, and I do NOT commute 120 miles per day!

Thank goodness!

But I still run Amoco ultimate or Shell premium, as often as possible.
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Old 07-08-2014, 04:15 AM   #22
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I also use Lucas fuel treatment and Seafoam about twice a year.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:34 AM   #23
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Negative ghost rider. If you wanna spend extra cash on fuel then buy non-ethanol. It's more efficient, but not enough to justify the cost IMO.
+ 1.

It's amazing how it positively impacts an engine and fuel system.

For a while where I live the non-ethanol was a nickle a gallon more.

Then a new owner took over the particular station and figured out those are the only pumps where people wait in line to fill up.

Now, unfortunately, it's a quarter more a gallon... For my weekly miles the net result of that greedy maneuver was a $3.00 a week increase in a tank of gas.

I went back to the corn-likker version of petrol and about three times a year I dump in a can of Seafoam. $30 a year as opposed to $150.

Anyway, if you can stomach the added cost, ethanol free is the way to go.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:01 AM   #24
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I run the 85 octane in all my vehicles. I also run non-ethanol fuel every chance I get! Depending on driving conditions, I see a 3-5% gain in mileage using real gas!
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:23 AM   #25
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.... And yep, avoid higher than 87 octane. Here's a few facts about octane that few realize... that a higher octane burns more slowly, and that it is harder to ignite than a lower octane gas is. As such, running a higher octane than is required can actually cause more deposits to be left behind in the engine. Octane is added to fuel to make it harder to ignite so it won't ignite prematurely from over-compression in a high-compression engine.

Gasoline producers have been laughing all the way to the bank ever since they learned calling a higher octane gasoline something like "Supreme" can fool the masses into thinking it's a better grade of gasoline worth paying for for normal engines, it's not. The earn an extra ten cents a gallon of gasoline for something that costs them an extra penny per gallon to add.
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... I found that the higher octane fuels from Amoco (ultimate) , and Shell (premium), offered a slightly higher MPG , and this offset their higher cost per gallon.
Higher octanes than the engine was designed for will ABSOLUTELY not improve MPG. Positively, no way will they do that, that is not octane's purpose. Additional octane cannot and will not do that. Did you even read the entire thread where what octane does and its purpose was explained?

If it was as simple as just running a higher octane to gain better MPG, you can believe the EPA would be forcing us to only run higher octane gasolines.

Or if you did read it and didn't believe what I explained, read what the EPA says about it in the following link... and stop wasting (!) your $$$ on higher octane fuels which can actually leave more deposits behind in your engine than the correct 87 octane gasoline.

Click on
Paying a Premium for High Octane Gasoline? | Consumer Information.

Here's a good summary quote from that EPA article... "using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage, or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner's manual."
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:22 AM   #26
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Jerry is the man. I just did this text and tried 87, 89 and 91 for the heck if it and I didn't get any difference in miles at all. Other then waste the few dollars. I used 91 with a can of seafoam and I will tell you the seafoam worked great but has didn't matter. Anywyas Jerry is the man to go to and I listen to the most experienced for advice. That's why this site is great.
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Old 07-09-2014, 02:51 AM   #27
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Negative ghost rider. If you wanna spend extra cash on fuel then buy non-ethanol. It's more efficient, but not enough to justify the cost IMO.
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Old 07-09-2014, 04:57 AM   #28
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I run the 85 octane in all my vehicles. I also run non-ethanol fuel every chance I get! Depending on driving conditions, I see a 3-5% gain in mileage using real gas!
Your post, like others on this thread, leaves out the fact that you live above sea level. This leads people to believe they can ignore the manufacturer's octane requirement at sea level. Fortunately, you can't buy 85 octane anywhere it's likely to cause damage to an engine spec'ed for 87.

Buy the non-ethanol 85 while you can. It's disappearing even in Wyoming. In the NW corner of the state, I can only find zero ethanol 91 octane at one station.

By the way, octane requirements drop 1.4RON per 300 meters altitude. If your engine is spec'ed for 87RON, it only needs 85.6RON at 984 feet altitude.

I live at 5,120 feet (1,560 meters) and had my 2004 Mach 1 dyno tuned on 91RON at sea level. We advanced the timing as much as possible, so the engine really needs 91RON. At my current altitude, the engine requires 7.28 fewer RON or 83.72RON. Since my normal operational radius includes altitudes from 3,900 ft. to 10,990 ft. (Beartooth Pass in Montana), I run 87/88RON and have been doing so for ten years with zero problems.

(Note: That 1.4RON drop per 300 meters was one study. I like a cushion.)

There also seems to be a general misunderstanding of how engines react to RON above design requirements. The ECU will retard the timing of my Mach 1's engine if low RON fuel triggers the knock sensors, BUT IT WILL NOT ADVANCE TIMING FOR RON ABOVE THE DESIGN MINIMUM. (This is something I personally confirmed with Brian Young, the Ford calibration engineer on the Mach 1's engine.)

Some new cars spec 91 or 87. Some mistakenly believe these engines produce bonus HP on higher RON, but in reality these engines were spec'ed for 91 and reduce HP on 87.

The bottom line: You can't make more HP on higher RON unless you recalibrate the ECU for higher RON.

I also found the comments about no fuel system cleaner required hilarious. Gasoline quality and additive packages can vary widely. that's why several auto manufacturers got together years ago and came up with a set of standards.

Read this:Top Tier Gasoline

Not all gasoline is TIER I and it is amusing to note that ARCO (known for discount prices and 24 hour convenience stores) was the first supplier to offer TIER I gasoline in all grades at the pump. Not Shell, not BP, not Chevron, not Mobil.... ARCO - the guys with the 128oz. soft drinks and discount gas prices. Back then, no "car guy" would be caught dead at an ARCO station because they just knew ACRO gas was crap and no amount of proof could change their minds. Twenty years later, it's the same only now crap is spread on internet car forums through anecdotal evidence. You never see a Lamborghini or Ferrari at an ARCO station. (Maybe that's because Italian supercar cup holders can't manage a 64oz drink?)

The website linked above has information on what happened to detergent additives in gasoline as EPA requirements continue to become more stringent. Detergents have been reduced by as much as 50% since 1995.

I run a bottle of Chevron Techron through my cars once a year. Why Techron? Because when I researched the product years ago, I found out Techron was the only fuel system cleaner approved by BOSCH (manufacturer of fuel system components including fuel injectors). While I can't prove it works, it makes me feel good and O'Reilly's has a buy one get one sale at least once a year.
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Old 07-09-2014, 05:25 AM   #29
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Negative ghost rider. If you wanna spend extra cash on fuel then buy non-ethanol. It's more efficient, but not enough to justify the cost IMO.
There might be another reason to buy non-ethanol fuel for cars that are a few years old. There have been reports of oxygenated fuels harming seals and fuel systems in pre 2011 cars. Given a choice, I wouldn't run E10 in anything built prior to 2011. And, even in 2011 not all car fuel systems were designed to handle E10. Most, but not all.
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:16 AM   #30
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i havent seen non ethanol gas in my area for years. i've looked many times, stuck with the crap and pay the most

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