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Old 08-19-2012, 01:13 PM   #1
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Jacking point question

I rotated my tires for the first time yesterday (I am a newb at this), and discovered the front axle on the driver's side does not seem to have any good jack points. The manual says to lift on the axle tubes and the diagram shows placing the jack under the lower control arm bracket. That works fine, except that there is no room for a jack stand with the pumpkin so far to one side. For safety, I never want to remove a wheel just using the jack for support. Besides, I had to move the jack to the rear axle to lift it at the same time to rotate the tires.

Where would be a good location to place a jack stand?

I assume I should not put it under the pumpkin, isn't that too fragile? The other side of the pumpkin is the centerline, so that wouldn't balance correctly. Is it safe to place it under the lower control arm itself? It looks like a bad angle though. Putting it under the frame allows the wheel to still drop, so that doesn't help.

I suppose I could get a hi-lift bumper jack instead, that would free up the jacking point under the axle for the jack stand. To get around the problem yesterday, I raised the rear axle first, and placed it on a jack stand. Then I jacked up the front axle without placing a jack stand. That really makes me nervous though. There's got to be a better way. Any ideas?

Yes, I could just let the tire shop rotate the tires, but I don't like them putting the lug nuts on with @#$%! air wrenches!! I had to use a 36" breaker arm to get some of them loose yesterday. That would have been real fun if were changing a flat out on a trail!

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Old 08-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #2
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The pumpkin is the STRONGEST part of the axle. I always jack up my axle under the pumpkin. You can lift both tires off the ground at the same time that way.

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Old 08-19-2012, 01:24 PM   #3
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I use my differential in the rear for both tires, and in the front I have too much flex to use the diff for both sides, so i use the diff for the driver side, ans control arm mount for the passenger side. They're cast housings, so they're plenty strong.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #4
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Just to add to the pumpkin strength comments, either pumpkin is more than strong enough by itself to support the entire weight of the Jeep.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:46 PM   #5
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When you guys are lifting under the pumpkin, are you using a floor jack with a large cup that would disperse the weight somewhat? I should have mentioned that I'm using a bottle jack. I would think the single point could punch a hole through a cast housing. What about lifting at the jacking point and then just placing the jack stand under the differential? My other concern would be could it put too much pressure on the seals?
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:46 PM   #6
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And to add to it... Yes you can lift off the diff
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #7
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I would think the single point could punch a hole through a cast housing... My other concern would be could it put too much pressure on the seals?
Stop, you're killing me!!
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniels Jeep
When you guys are lifting under the pumpkin, are you using a floor jack with a large cup that would disperse the weight somewhat? I should have mentioned that I'm using a bottle jack. I would think the single point could punch a hole through a cast housing. What about lifting at the jacking point and then just placing the jack stand under the differential? My other concern would be could it put too much pressure on the seals?
Yeah I use a floor jack. Not sure what to do about the bottle Jack
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniels Jeep View Post
When you guys are lifting under the pumpkin, are you using a floor jack with a large cup that would disperse the weight somewhat? I should have mentioned that I'm using a bottle jack. I would think the single point could punch a hole through a cast housing. What about lifting at the jacking point and then just placing the jack stand under the differential? My other concern would be could it put too much pressure on the seals?
Have you read all of the above comments that are trying to reassure you? If not, please read or re-read them. The axle pumpkin is made from heavy thick cast iron. We regularly get our Jeeps hung up them from rocks etc. and they regularly/easily withstand violent encounters with trail obstacles, even sharp trail obstacles. The only possibly vulnerable part of our axle is the differential cover which is still not easily damaged or punctured.

In other words, stop worrying about the axles, housings, pumpkins, etc. and especially stop worrying about using the bottle jack on any part of the axle or pumpkin housing. Consider them bulletproof for all reasonable intents and purposes.
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:05 PM   #10
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Thanks for the advice guys. I suppose I should have guessed the differential would be strong enough, after all it is a Jeep.
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:06 PM   #11
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I just use the pumpkins but the front can be a PITA if your jack isn't tall enough.
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:08 PM   #12
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I just use the pumpkins but the front can be a PITA if your jack isn't tall enough.
Place the jack under the control arm mount where it will be tall enough for even 37" tires.
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
Have you read all of the above comments that are trying to reassure you? If not, please read or re-read them. The axle pumpkin is made from heavy thick cast iron. We regularly get our Jeeps hung up them from rocks etc. and they regularly/easily withstand violent encounters with trail obstacles, even sharp trail obstacles. The only possibly vulnerable part of our axle is the differential cover which is still not easily damaged or punctured.

In other words, stop worrying about the axles, housings, pumpkins, etc. and especially stop worrying about using the bottle jack on any part of the axle or pumpkin housing. Consider them bulletproof for all reasonable intents and purposes.
I know I've smacked a rock with it at 7 mph and it didn't do much.
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:54 PM   #14
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And yes you can stick your stands under the lca mounts. X2 on the diff it's not going anywhere. Stronger than the frame.
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:04 PM   #15
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And yes you can stick your stands under the lca mounts. X2 on the diff it's not going anywhere. Stronger than the frame.
Expessially if your frame looks anything like Spencer's
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:08 PM   #16
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i have been known put the jack stand under the spring perch, grabbing the forward lip.

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Old 08-19-2012, 06:31 PM   #17
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I think your question was answered on where too jack and support so I will comment on the shop rotation.

I get mine done for free at DT for life so I just use their service. What I do though is make sure that they use a torque wrench to the right specs when they install the lug nuts. I also use anti-seize to keep them easy to remove. I also check them before trips to make sure they are right by slightly loosening and torquing them back. I very rarely have any issues on any vehicle or trailer.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:41 PM   #18
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What I do though is make sure that they use a torque wrench to the right specs when they install the lug nuts. I also use anti-seize to keep them easy to remove. .
If you're tightening lug nuts to spec after applying antisieze, you're overtightening them. Once antisieze has been applied to the threads, you need to reduce the ft-lbs. by approximately 30% to provide the same clamping force.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:46 PM   #19
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I thought that only applied if you got it on the area at the base of the lug nut where it contacts the wheel. I just put a little on the end of the thread and hand tighten it down snug.

Edit - hand tighten then torque to spec.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:48 PM   #20
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If you're tightening lug nuts to spec after applying antisieze, you're overtightening them. Once antisieze has been applied to the threads, you need to reduce the ft-lbs. by approximately 30% to provide the same clamping force.
True. I remember seeing a chart showing torque specs for with and without anti-seize. I wish I could remember where I saw that. One day I'll google for it but for now, I'll live by the 30% rule.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:50 PM   #21
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I thought that only applied if you got it on the area at the base of the lug nut where it contacts the wheel.
No, that 30% reduction in ft-lbs. applies when antisize is applied to the threads. That is because the antisieze lubricates the threads which makes it easier to turn before the torque wrench sees enough resistance to make it click. That in turn has increased the clamping effect with less effort (torque) as indicated by the torque wrench.
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:00 PM   #22
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Ok then I will drop it down to make sure not to over tighten.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:00 PM   #23
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I think your question was answered on where too jack and support so I will comment on the shop rotation.

I get mine done for free at DT for life so I just use their service. What I do though is make sure that they use a torque wrench to the right specs when they install the lug nuts. I also use anti-seize to keep them easy to remove. I also check them before trips to make sure they are right by slightly loosening and torquing them back. I very rarely have any issues on any vehicle or trailer.
You have to watch those guys like a hawk...a lot of them are just kids. If they don't use torque sticks on the impact the torque wrench is pointless. I've seen them bottom out the impact and then go around with the TW just going through the motions. "Of course it's going to click the damn lugs are torqued to 300 ft/lbs!!" Yea I hate lazy "techs".
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:31 PM   #24
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You have to watch those guys like a hawk...a lot of them are just kids. If they don't use torque sticks on the impact the torque wrench is pointless. I've seen them bottom out the impact and then go around with the TW just going through the motions. "Of course it's going to click the damn lugs are torqued to 300 ft/lbs!!" Yea I hate lazy "techs".
I usually will not use a place if I do not see torque sticks installed on the guns laying around, and unless someone makes me move, I stand there when they rotate so I can make sure. I also give the kid a few bucks if he does it right. I still check them after 50-100 miles because I learned that way and I will show my ass if I cannot move a lug nut.

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