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Old 01-15-2012, 04:38 AM   #1
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Jeep TJ Engine swap, need advice!

I am new to this forum (actually to any forum) so I am not sure if I am doing this correctly or not. I have wanted a jeep since I was a child and recently started setting money aside to buy a jeep to work on. My first plan of action was to buy a jeep that had been wrecked that I could salvage and build myself, but I have little experience rebuilding vehicles. I ended up lucking out by finding a jeep wrangler that a friend had purchased and upgraded before the jeeps motor blew out. My friend was having a hard time getting the time and money to get into fixing the new motor, so I had them make me an offer. I lucked out and bought the jeep for $2500, including the new tires, wheels, lift kit, suspension upgrades and a 10,000 lb winch. The only thing that sucks is that the motor is gone... and its a 2.5L 4 cyl. I have enlisted my fathers help with the swap since he has experience doing motor swaps, but we aren't seeing eye to eye on the new motor installation because I want to upgrade to an I6 or a V8 while he wants to simply put a new 4 cyl in it. Like I said, I have no experience with this, so can someone please give me some advice on which route to go? I know that there will be more work involved with upgrading, but I want to get this done right the first time, that way it won't be a concern for a good few years. I know that there will be more things involved with upgrading (such as the clutch and transfer case) but I am willing to work toward it. This jeep is going to be my everyday (or at least every other day) driver with some trails on the side for the weekends. I basically want a reliable vehicle during the snow and nasty weather (a step up from my 4cyl ford ranger). I would really appreciate every bit of input that I can get.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:40 PM   #2
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I don't think a 4.0L engine swap would be TOO difficult...it may need a new tranny, but I think the 2.5L uses the same tcase. I bet in the end you can have this all done for pretty cheap overall...and that looks like a REALLY nice Jeep for what you'll have into it.

IMO...the 4 cylinder is a slug...I've driven both. I drove the 4 cylinder first and afterward I had no desire to own a Jeep. It was NOT impressive in the slightest. I drove a 4.0L Jeep a couple years later...and THEN I wanted a Jeep. lol. Stick with a factory installed engine though (2.5L or 4.0L)...if you don't have much experience with rebuilds, installing a factory engine will be a much smoother process than putting in something that was never designed to go in the Wrangler.

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Old 01-15-2012, 02:20 PM   #3
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Your a novice, right?

Put a 4 cyl back in it.

Then, when it's back driveable, put a for-sale sign in it. Sell it for fair market value, and use that money to buy an factory I6 TJ in comperable condition. Sometimes it's just easier to buy and sell, than to re-engineer or modify.

Regarding building a V8 TJ, everything needs to work as a unit. When you upgrade the engine, you also need to upgrade the transmission, transfer case, drivelines, axles, exhaust, intake, fuel lines, cooling system, etc..... Otherwise, you end up breaking all kinds of components.

edit: Or you could sell it to me, just like it is, without an engine, and make a profit
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:12 PM   #4
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Well I am basically going to be using it for driving during the week to an from college (on the days I don't ride my bike) and to my job about 45 minutes away during the summer once the season starts again. It won't be used for anything really crazy, just for commuting and trail and fire road driving in my free time. I would love to get on with a search and rescue team in the area. I would also like to have the horsepower to help motorists and friends when they get stuck during bad weather. I really want to learn the ins and outs of jeep tinkering... I guess I just really hoped that I had found a great deal for the price and that this would be a great project for me and my old man.
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:23 PM   #5
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That is an awesome price especially considering all the goodies you got with it! Yes, replacing the four cylinder would be easiest, but with your dad's help I don't see that putting in a 4.0 would be that big of a deal. If you could find a seriously wrecked 4.0 that had a usable engine you should have no serious problems.

Don't pay any attention to Tree Climber, he's just lusting after your jeep.

Oh, what year is your jeep?
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:32 PM   #6
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Don't pay any attention to Tree Climber,
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:37 PM   #7
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If you are serious about a swap ,a Mopar V8 can be done for about the same $ as a 4.0, in some cases maybe less.
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:42 PM   #8
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I'm sorry, Tree Climber, I didn't mean it like that. Yes, I agree that a V8 swap would be a very bad choice, but really, a 4.0 is not going to be that difficult. He's going to have his Dad's help who doesn't sound like a novice so what is the big deal? If he has a wrecker to cannibalize he should be fine. He'll learn a lot in the process and if he gets bitten by the bug he could grow up just like you...
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:06 PM   #9
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I'm sorry, Tree Climber, I didn't mean it like that. Yes, I agree that a V8 swap would be a very bad choice, but really, a 4.0 is not going to be that difficult. He's going to have his Dad's help who doesn't sound like a novice so what is the big deal? If he has a wrecker to cannibalize he should be fine. He'll learn a lot in the process and if he gets bitten by the bug he could grow up just like you...
I think you just called me a Cannibal.

But yes, he would learn a lot. But it's an expensive lesson, both in time and money, which isn't neccessarily the best lesson for a novice. Often, simply learning how to install the *correct* engine, first, is enough of a lesson.

In order to install the I6, you'll need the heavier duty radiator, entire engine and transmission, exhaust system, and engine wiring harness, along with intake. I can't remember, but I thing the motor mounts on the frame rails are also different, so you might need to weld them on also (but as stated, I cannot remember) To install the OEM 4 cyl, all you need is an engine.

His TJ, once it's running and driving, will be worth twice, or thrice, what he paid for it. That's a nice downpayment towards a Sport or Sahara.

My first rig was a 79 CJ5 with a blown engine. I bought a Gremlin, for the 304 V8, and replaced the blown 304 with the Gremlin 304. I learned a lot from that build. The next build was much easier, yet more complicated. And each build thereafter got progressively more envolved.

Whichever way the OP ends up going, it's going to be a fabulous father-son endeveour.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:23 PM   #10
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70's CJ5 is what I lust after. Just made for a SBC swap, and no EPA crap to deal with.

You covered about everything. But that's why he needs the 4.0 wreck for parts. Without that he could end up getting nickle and dime'd to death.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:31 PM   #11
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Here's a useful link: 4 cylinder to 6 cylinder - JeepForum.com

Even Jerry B. gets his two cents worth in.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:56 PM   #12
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Here's a useful link: 4 cylinder to 6 cylinder - JeepForum.com

Even Jerry B. gets his two cents worth in.
Holybatpoop. Jerry's advice is the same as mine. Whodathunkit?
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:24 PM   #13
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Holybatpoop. Jerry's advice is the same as mine. Whodathunkit?
No kidding, Dude, I got a really good laugh over that one. I sat here wondering: Who is quoting whom?
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:37 PM   #14
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oldguy- its a 2000 model. It has a small rush spot on the front right fender. Hopefully if I can find a donor jeep with a good motor and trans, I should be able to find an undamaged fender as well.

Treeclimber- I will make sure that you are the first person to notify if I decide to get rid of the jeep. haha. I know putting a new motor in it would double or triple its value and I could get much more money out of it... but the problem is I would be worried that I wouldn't be able to find a buyer.

I appreciate you guys helping me out. Like I said this is my first endeavor in jeepery. You guys have def given me some great info and some great links with information to help make my decision. I am going to start looking around at local salvage yards and dig into some info on V8 swapping.
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:59 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=WolfManJack84;1925233]oldguy- its a 2000 model. It has a small rush spot on the front right fender. Hopefully if I can find a donor jeep with a good motor and trans, I should be able to find an undamaged fender as well.[QUOTE]

Well you've got seven years in your favor, ten on the fender, you'll do fine

[QUOTE=Treeclimber- I will make sure that you are the first person to notify if I decide to get rid of the jeep. haha. I know putting a new motor in it would double or triple its value and I could get much more money out of it... but the problem is I would be worried that I wouldn't be able to find a buyer.[QUOTE]

Find a buyer, ha, flash it on the for sale forum, and you'll have more than Tree Climber figuring transportation costs

[QUOTE=I appreciate you guys helping me out. Like I said this is my first endeavor in jeepery. You guys have def given me some great info and some great links with information to help make my decision. I am going to start looking around at local salvage yards and dig into some info on V8 swapping.[QUOTE]

I think we might have Tree Climber II in the making
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:09 PM   #16
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Listen to your father.

Aren't you dependant on his help? It doesn't sound like he wants a real involved project right now.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:48 PM   #17
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from what you said the 4cyl sounds like the best option... just get it in there and have a reliabe jeep for little $$$... you can always sell the engine and do the 6cyl conversion down the road... i do work on my jeep all the time with my dad, its a lot of fun and time that you will enjoy...
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:05 AM   #18
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20 G' s will get you 1 of these all set up, motor, tranny, radiator, etcClick image for larger version

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Old 01-16-2012, 02:08 AM   #19
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Definitely listen to Dad's advice. If you can get him to agree to the I6, I think you'll be happier with that motor. its been around for years, makes great torque, super reliable too. There is a reason you wont hear of too many people swapping out the I6 for the 4 banger If you ever do want to sell the jeep (you probably wont) i suppose your resale will be better with I6. Definitely don't sell it to anyone giving advice to go buy another jeep, you got a heck of price on a project vehicle - congrats!
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:56 AM   #20
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Having swapped a Small Block Chevy 350 in my jeep ill tell you its a really fun jeep and a cool project. But it takes a lot of research, money, patience and time for people like you and I. Some more experienced people have done V8 conversion in a couple weeks. But mine took 2 years of researching and saving money to get it all together. Then about another month to take care of all the work with a couple buddies and some beer.

The other thing is whos paying for all this? If its your father then you really should just go with the 2.5. If you have a automatic transmission in it you could try to talk him into the inline six because then all you would need to change is obviously the motor and mounts but the pcm and wiring harness. It would be a plug and play essenstially. But if you have a stick then you need to change all that and get the ax15 with a np231j tcase that has a 23 spline input gear or rebuild your stock tcase with a 23 spline input gear. PM me if you want more detailed answers for your questions in my 2 years of research for my V8 conversion I did a lot of reading and studying on the jeeps drivetrain and suspension for both tj and yj.

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Old 01-16-2012, 11:51 PM   #21
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oldguy- Thanks for everything haha. I will hopefully have some sort of update on which path to take and tons of pictures to go with.

Daisy cutter- If its a better buy, don't you think it would be worth the trouble to upgrade to an I6 or to at least get this one fixed up and sale it to put forth money towards one with an I6.

OOTJ- I really look forward to getting the parts to fix it up with my old man and to that first drive in it since he is going to get the old CJ out and take it for a back roads cruise to celebrate the completion of the project!

Eliminator- WOW! Only 20G's?! haha

Gashman- Thanks man! I was hoping that I didn't get taken when I bought it, but after getting it I really am impressed with myself. I tried to talk the guy down to a lower price, but it didn't work.

yjkid95- thanks for all the advice too man.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:48 AM   #22
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:47 AM   #23
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The 4 banger will treat you just fine. Everyone can complain about them all they want, but offroad, the 2.5 will walk through, around, or over any thing a 4.0 can. On road, they both can do just fine. The 2.5 is a dog as far as acceleration, but it does get up there just fine. I can cruise mine down the freeway at 75-80 as much as I want to. I build and race drag cars, so I get my speed fix there, but it also means I understand power and the need for it. Never once have I said my Jeep needed more power to do the things Jeep intended it to do. Matter of fact, the only time I can remember saying it needed more power, was when passing cars on the highway.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:33 AM   #24
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The 4 banger will treat you just fine. Everyone can complain about them all they want, but offroad, the 2.5 will walk through, around, or over any thing a 4.0 can. On road, they both can do just fine. The 2.5 is a dog as far as acceleration, but it does get up there just fine. I can cruise mine down the freeway at 75-80 as much as I want to. I build and race drag cars, so I get my speed fix there, but it also means I understand power and the need for it. Never once have I said my Jeep needed more power to do the things Jeep intended it to do. Matter of fact, the only time I can remember saying it needed more power, was when passing cars on the highway.
I agree. My 95 YJ 2.5L 5 speed softtop with 31's was a great jeep (looked alot like that TJ you got, but a YJ). I drove it all over Colorado and out to Moab (from Denver). Sure, it did not like the mountain passes on I-70, or trying to go 80 where the speed limits were higher, but it was perfect for the offroading out there (mostly rock crawling). Put it in 4 LO and 1st, and let it idle over the rocks. There were times being a little under powered probably saved me getting into trouble, on and off road!

I had it for a few years when I moved to NY. It was much better here on road due to the lower altitude and flatter land. The only time I really cursed it was loaded up with a head wind trying to keep speed down the thruway. It was fine in the mud, loose hills climbs, and milder offroad here.

I had a 98 XJ 4.0 auto with 31's after the YJ, and have a 06 LJ 4.0 6 speed with 31's now, and yes it is nice to have that extra power on tap, but most of the time I only need it when towing or maintaining speed on the highways.

Long story short, for what your doing, it sounds like a 2.5 will be sufficent as long as you keep the build and tire size mild. Most can barely tolerate 31's with the stock 4.10's....

EDIT: Also wanted to mention that I think your better off putting a 2.5L back into it. The jeep is setup for it, so it should be a bolt in affair. It'll be a good father/son project still, and not too over your head.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:17 PM   #25
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Look up the website Quadratec.com and call them they have a i6 and tranny for 5500. Idk what else you would need but my understanding is the tc is universal!
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:55 PM   #26
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I've been looking fort a blown 4 cyl, ill buy it from you!!
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:38 PM   #27
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jeepgarza- your wanting to buy the blown engine or the jeep?

Jeepinmike- well, the tires that the previous owners put into it are 32's-33's. Do you suggest getting smaller tires (if I put a 2.5 back in it) or adjusting the gear ratio or tc?
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:19 AM   #28
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Gear ratio if it's not been done. If you know for a fact you'll never go with bigger tires than 33's, run 4:56. If your not sure, go with 4:88. Thats the biggest you can get in the d30/35's in the TJ's.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:27 PM   #29
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The next time I go back home I will have to check the gear ratio out. I will get back to you all once I figure out what its at now.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:25 PM   #30
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I got ahold of the previous owners to ask about the gearing ratio. According to them the Jeep is geared at 4.10. So should I still upgrade the ratio?

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