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Old 10-31-2012, 12:46 PM   #31
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I hope you aren't really believing you'll get an additional 22hp out of the 4.0L engine with an aftermarket header when compared to the headers that already come on the 4.0L. That type of figure is a best-case when comparing headers vs. an inefficient cast exhaust manifold which is not what comes on the TJ's 4.0L engine. Ads & marketing hype that talk best-case scenarios like you obviously read are carefully worded to fool most readers of them. And at 5,000 RPMs?

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Old 10-31-2012, 12:51 PM   #32
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Effort to install is the least of my worries. A weekend in my garage and I'm good. As for pricing, again I haven't looked into them much yet. Also, IF the dyno above is anywhere near correct 22 whp gains are not insignificant. At 140 whp that is an increase of 15%. Not exactly small.
The cracking is a drawback, unless you take the necessary steps to keep the engine movement at a minimum.

Again, this all boils down to what you want out of your vehicle.
We are also talking about at 5000rpm...it's not a race car lol?

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Old 10-31-2012, 12:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I hope you aren't really believing you'll get an additional 22hp out of the 4.0L engine with an aftermarket header when compared to the headers that already come on the 4.0L. That type of figure is a best-case when comparing headers vs. an inefficient cast exhaust manifold which is not what comes on the TJ's 4.0L engine. Ads & marketing hype that talk best-case scenarios like you obviously read are carefully worded to fool most readers of them.
They only claimed 22hp when the banks torque tube header was used in conjunction with the banks monster cat back as well. Headers alone would be around 10hp at 5000rpm.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:53 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I hope you aren't really believing you'll get an additional 22hp with an aftermarket header when compared to the header that already comes on the 4.0L. That type of figure is a best-case when comparing headers vs. an inefficient cast exhaust manifold which is not what comes on the TJ's 4.0L engine. Ads like you obviously read are carefully worded to fool most readers of them.
Let me help you out here:

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Originally Posted by willms81 View Post
Effort to install is the least of my worries. A weekend in my garage and I'm good. As for pricing, again I haven't looked into them much yet. Also, IF the dyno above is anywhere near correct 22 whp gains are not insignificant. At 140 whp that is an increase of 15%. Not exactly small.

The cracking is a drawback, unless you take the necessary steps to keep the engine movement at a minimum.

Again, this all boils down to what you want out of your vehicle.

See that part in red? Go ahead and reread it.

I'll wait.

I don't randomly believe any add thrown at me. To think all advertising is true is asinine. This is where researching and making an EDUCATED decision comes into play. I know this is hard to understand on an internet forum, but there are other people that may actually have some sort of intelligence.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:56 PM   #35
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They only claimed 22hp when the banks torque tube header was used in conjunction with the banks monster cat back as well.
Good catch. So looking at the "dyno" again, header alone is a gain of 10-15 whp maybe?

Also, as I stated earlier where the power comes in has an effect as well. Another thing is I see no torque numbers. Another part of making an educated decision.

Even if those numbers are more truthful, that is a better gain than you will get on a 4 banger with a header over an OEM header.

Also keep in mind this isn't your ls-x that will add 30+ hp with the installation o0f a set of long tubes.

But again, I would have to see an actual dyno sheet, not the computer generated crap posted above before making any decision on purchasing a header system for my 4.0
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:20 PM   #36
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If these are all cracking from engine movement, why not find some solid poly motor mounts or at a minimum motor mount inserts to keep the motor from moving so much? If anything you can fill the oem mounts with window weld and it will also help.
the reason the header cracks has absolutely nothing to do with the motor mounts.

the cracking issue is a result of the collector design itself. the 4.0L has a long head, and as such when it heats up it expands quite a bit in all directions. that means cylinder 1 is moving away from cylinder 6 as the motor generates heat. this movement means the headers and exhaust parts connected for some distance need to be able to deflect enough to account for this movement. if you look at a single piece header as a bending piece of steel, like someone is pulling cylinder 1 and 6 apart, the leverage point occurs wherever all the cylinders come together....at the collector (which is trying to serve as a hinge).

ok, now heat cycle that collector a bunch of times from freezing temps to 800°+F combustion temps, while loading the area with the leverage described above. If the design isn't flexible enough - it will break at the collector every time.

look at the one piece headers that crack - they all do so at the collector where multiple tubes come together, when they are in the same plane as the exhaust ports.

Jeep recognized that, and changed the exhaust manifold design in 2000. They went from a 6-into-1 "header-tube" collector style to a two-piece design. The 2-piece cast manifolds not only strengthened the "tube", but basically allowed the two sides of the head to flex separately with heat. they then attached a flexible two pathway downpipe, where the collector was under the oil pan - completely eliminating the possibility that collector could serve as a stress point.

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Most people install headers for power gains. That's is the only reason I would install a set. Which may happen eventually.
well the power gains are negligible, so don't bother.

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But again, I would have to see an actual dyno sheet, not the computer generated crap posted above before making any decision on purchasing a header system for my 4.0
the problem is dyno's are easy to fool, and 10hp is well within the normal variability of these things.

look up jgorm's 18 dyno pulls on his Jeep. Just to prove how easy it is to skew a dyno, he saw a near 10hp gain by doing nothing but going from 30psi to 50psi in the tires. similarly, take a Jeep with 35s with 4.88s and dyno it against a stock Jeep with 3.73s and 30s...all other things being equal. The Jeep on 35s will show a heck of a lot less power. Or go the other way...take a Jeep on 35s, do a dyno pull, then swap on a set of 29s and do another pull. Bingo, you just gained 20hp....or did you?
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:45 PM   #37
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Thank you for taking the time to explain that. I am coming from inline 4 cylinder experience and wasn't an issue. Our issues stemmed from motor movement and an exhaust system that wouldn't flex or move with the engine. I am admittedly new when it comes to this motor and am trying to figure out how much of my prior knowledge will carry over to this platform.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:47 PM   #38
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I also agree with what you say about dyno results. There are far too many variables and should only be used as a general idea of what you could gain.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:18 PM   #39
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Thumbs up find the crack...?

Great thread here! I was shopping new headers until I read this...

I too have the "annoying tick tick tick" on my '98 4.0L, (100k+ miles) which is likely a cracked header. Is there a consistent spot on the header where the cracks are being found? Are the cracks visible to the eye? Could it just be a bad gasket?

I'll be adding a cat-back exhaust upgrade while I have it all torn apart, but thats another thread.

Cheers,
Dean
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellsFishy
Great thread here! I was shopping new headers until I read this...

I too have the "annoying tick tick tick" on my '98 4.0L, (100k+ miles) which is likely a cracked header. Is there a consistent spot on the header where the cracks are being found? Are the cracks visible to the eye? Could it just be a bad gasket?

I'll be adding a cat-back exhaust upgrade while I have it all torn apart, but thats another thread.

Cheers,
Dean
Both cracked headers I had were cracked around the collector so that is where I would check first. They were easily seen while still installed on the vehicle. I guess it could be a bad gasket, but with as common as cracked headers are, that would be my first suspect.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:04 PM   #41
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I keep reading on this forum that the Banks Torque Tube Header has a lifetime warranty, but their site says 5 years warranty. Do people here say it has a lifetime warranty by experience?

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