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Old 09-23-2011, 09:17 PM   #1
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Losing significant gas mileage

After taking my 97 2.5SE to my mechanic for loss of power and gas mileage. He initially diagnosed it as a bad catalytic converter. But after getting a new cat converter to replace the old onw, he tells me that the current cat converter was actually good. He narrowed the problem down that my loss of gas mileage is caused by a bad fuel pump...I would normally fill back up after 245mi or more but with this issue at hand, I don't even get that much anymore. 200mi at the most. Do guys think that a bad fuel pump is the reason for my loss of mileage?

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Old 09-23-2011, 09:21 PM   #2
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Try cleaning the throttle body and idle air control valve. I got about 2 mpg and my power back
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/the-...ody-76468.html

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Old 09-23-2011, 09:23 PM   #3
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No, I would blame a lazy O2 sensor, bad TPS, or stuck EGR valve for your loss of power/gas consumption problem. A weak fuel pump would cause a loss of power, but wouldn't effect fuel consumption..Atleast in my experience..

If he actually measured the backpressure in the exhaust (should be no more than .5 psi) and it was excessive, the muffler could be the culprit.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:07 PM   #4
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A sudden loss of mpg and power that isn't caused by a bad cat could very likely be a bad upstream 02 sensor.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by wwch99tj View Post
Try cleaning the throttle body and idle air control valve. I got about 2 mpg and my power back
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/the-...ody-76468.html
This suggestion never hurts and dirt cheap.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:50 AM   #6
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A sudden loss of mpg and power that isn't caused by a bad cat could very likely be a bad upstream 02 sensor.
My cat converter and exhaust system were all replaced this Apr and there was no mentioning of 02 sensors going bad even after the time I brought it in initially and thought that the problem was with a bad cat.

As far's the power issue I was having, my Jeep struggles trying to get up to 55-60mph, and when it does, it will gradually slow down even when I have the gas pedal to the floor...

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Try cleaning the throttle body and idle air control valve. I got about 2 mpg and my power back
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/the-...ody-76468.html
How often should the TB be cleaned? My Jeep just had a tune up in Apr and the TB were cleaned out as well.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AirWick

How often should the TB be cleaned? My Jeep just had a tune up in Apr and the TB were cleaned out as well.
I clean mine every couple oil changes every 10k or so. I don't know if there is a recommend interval to clean the tb
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:25 PM   #8
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I second Jerry on this... O2 sensors and sudden loss of gas mileage frequently go hand in hand.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:36 PM   #9
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I second Jerry on this... O2 sensors and sudden loss of gas mileage frequently go hand in hand.
If that's the case, i'd rather try changing out the 02 first vs buying a new fuel pump assembly, which is also going to save me at least $400 for replacing it. Is this something I could do or have someone else help me with or will it need to be done by a professional mechanic?
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:45 PM   #10
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Can you turn a wrench? That's about all that's involved, Ok other then unplugging the sensor. You will have at least two sensors, some have 4, soak it the night before with some PB Blaster, use a 6 point wrench, or they do make a socket designed for O2 sensors. It's like changing a spark plug with a wire on it.

Coat the threads on the new one with anti seize, install it, plug it back in.



But after all that you losing power may be an entirely different problem from the gas mileage one. That in fact sounds like the restriction in the exhaust, and or the fuel pump.

Easy enough to check both both, with a vacuum gauge and a fuel pressure gauge.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:51 PM   #11
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Coat the threads on the new one with anti seize,
I've never seen an 02 sensor whose threads didn't come precoated with antiseize. Have you?
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
I've never seen an 02 sensor whose threads didn't come precoated with antiseize. Have you?
I've seen 3 of them so far. Bosch comes with a packet included.
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:44 PM   #13
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Airwick i am having the same problem. I got my jeep last week and 3 days after i got it mine did the same. Did you check for any codes. I am getting
P0442 Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected (small leak)
P0455 Evaporative Emission system gross leak
I took my cat out to see if it was good. and did a bunck of other stuff people said to try like new gas cab and stuff like that. also checked all the vacum line and couldnt find any leaks. I am taking to the shop monday to see what they can figure out i gave up on figuring it out my self
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:59 PM   #14
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Airwick i am having the same problem. I got my jeep last week and 3 days after i got it mine did the same. Did you check for any codes. I am getting
P0442 Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected (small leak)
P0455 Evaporative Emission system gross leak
I took my cat out to see if it was good. and did a bunck of other stuff people said to try like new gas cab and stuff like that. also checked all the vacum line and couldnt find any leaks. I am taking to the shop monday to see what they can figure out i gave up on figuring it out my self
The only P-code I got after picking up my Jeep from the shop was "P0171-System too lean" and did notice a loud leaky air noise coming from the middle undercarriage when I pressed on the gas. I brought it back to the shop to have looked at, took them 15 mins. and the noise went away. My initial thought was probably a loose clamp in the cat converter since he took it apart to see if that's what causing my "loss of power" issue. Now if a new 02 sensor can't fix the gas decrease then i'm taking it to another mechanic for a second opinion since they think that it could be a bad fuel pump assembly. Good luck on yours! Hope they figure it out!
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:35 PM   #15
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A sudden loss of mpg and power that isn't caused by a bad cat could very likely be a bad upstream 02 sensor.
Hey Jerry, i'll be changing my upstream O2 sensor this weekend. After all is said and done, what should I expect? either good or bad? Would I encounter any P-codes? Thanks!
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:47 PM   #16
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I would disconnect the battery while you change the 02 sensor. Not for safety reasons but to reset the computer so it will start afresh with the new 02 sensor. It might even run a bit rough or odd until the computer relearns all its parameters. So don't expect results as soon as the new 02 sensor is in. Give the computer (PCM) a chance to get itself reprogrammed with the new 02 sensor.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:02 PM   #17
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If you had a wide band air fuel sensor I suspect it would show rich. Most likely a bad O2 sensor. May want to check compression too.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:54 PM   #18
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I would disconnect the battery while you change the 02 sensor. Not for safety reasons but to reset the computer so it will start afresh with the new 02 sensor. It might even run a bit rough or odd until the computer relearns all its parameters. So don't expect results as soon as the new 02 sensor is in. Give the computer (PCM) a chance to get itself reprogrammed with the new 02 sensor.
Great! A friend had suggested cleaning my TB first prior to changing out the O2 to keep gunk away from the new one? Is this necessary or something could be done without? Your thoughts?
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:00 PM   #19
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Cleaning out the throttle body is never a bad idea and if you're going to do it, I'd do it before installing the new 02 sensor.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:09 PM   #20
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Cleaning out the throttle body is never a bad idea and if you're going to do it, I'd do it before installing the new 02 sensor.
Thanks to you and all that chimed in for the information! I'm hoping that replacing the O2 sensor will narrow down or fix what's causing my gas mileage decrease vs buying a new fuel pump as my mechanic suggested. Will be keeping you posted...
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:23 PM   #21
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Do guys think that a bad fuel pump is the reason for my loss of mileage?
No way. If the fuel pump was on the way out the jeep would die when you gave it full throttle. It would also run like crap
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Originally Posted by wwch99tj View Post
Try cleaning the throttle body and idle air control valve. I got about 2 mpg and my power back
]
Sorry, but there is no way that you got 2mpg from cleaning the throttle body. Even if it was 30% clogged up with crap (like you run in the mud with no air filter), it would only affect the WOT operation. I watch the map sensor all the time and you would be surprised to know that the jeep is basically at full throttle sometimes as low as half throttle if the load is high. I'm calling a map of 13+ being wot. You will also see very little change when going from 50% throttle to full throttle on the map sensor. Most people can feel that the jeep doesn't go much faster when you push the gas all the way down vs 50% to 75% throttle.
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A sudden loss of mpg and power that isn't caused by a bad cat could very likely be a bad upstream 02 sensor.
+1
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I would disconnect the battery while you change the 02 sensor. Not for safety reasons but to reset the computer so it will start afresh with the new 02 sensor. It might even run a bit rough or odd until the computer relearns all its parameters. So don't expect results as soon as the new 02 sensor is in. Give the computer (PCM) a chance to get itself reprogrammed with the new 02 sensor.
There is no need to unplug the battery. The ECU learns really fast and will correct for any adjustments within about 1 minute of startup. It updates the learned data many times per second.
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If you had a wide band air fuel sensor I suspect it would show rich. Most likely a bad O2 sensor. May want to check compression too.
I can't imagine anyone putting a wideband on a jeep (well, except me because I have one I got for free just sitting on my shelf). Low compression can also cause a loss of mpg and power, but that is more rare than an O2 sensor and will also require $$$$$ to fix.

If you hear a hissing, or ticking sound, you might have an exhaust / header leak. This will also cause a loss of mpg if its upstream of the first o2 sensor. You can usually hear exhaust leaks at low speed, low rpm, and moderate to heavy throttle.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:33 PM   #22
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dumb question-can someone explain how a bad fuel pump would hurt mileage? I mean shouldn't it either pump or not--?--unless revving the engine to run pump harder if manual tranny?
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:52 PM   #23
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You can put a wide band on the jeep for about 40 bucks just to get a reading. It's not a big deal.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:37 AM   #24
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You can put a wide band on the jeep for about 40 bucks just to get a reading. It's not a big deal.
Thats not a wideband, its a narrowband. The cheapest wideband you will find is at least $200. If it hooks into the stock o2 sensor, then its junk and only useful between about 14.2 to 15.2.
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:19 PM   #25
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I was referring to using a dyno shop that can strap-on a wide-band to perform a test either on the street or on the rollers. I see prices range from 40 to 60 bucks.

I have used them myself.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:36 PM   #26
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haha, got it $40-60 is pretty cheap! I charge $125 for hp pulls with AFR on my dyno.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #27
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That's probably a club rate that I posted. Typical daily rate might be higher.

I think a dyno is a great, very under utilized tool. I wish there were more around.
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:55 PM   #28
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Hey guys, in addition to a possible bad upstream O2 sensor causing the loss of mileage, could a clogged fuel filter be a possible culprit? If so, is this something that could be done by me or a mechanic?
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Old 10-22-2011, 01:24 PM   #29
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I cleaned my TB and changed the upstream O2 sensor today. Man, what a significant difference in my idle and how she's running now. I noticed that I can crank the speed up at 60 mph in 3rd gear without any struggle vs the issue I was having before with loss of power. Hoping that I can notice an increase with my gas mileage on my next fill-up.

This is my old O2 sensor on the right, assuming that this is the stock one and hasn't been replaced 112,XXX miles ago. NTK sensor on the left.

Thanks again guys...never would've thought i'd be able to do this by myself if it weren't for your inputs!

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Old 01-06-2012, 07:15 PM   #30
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I cleaned my TB and changed the upstream O2 sensor today. Man, what a significant difference in my idle and how she's running now. I noticed that I can crank the speed up at 60 mph in 3rd gear without any struggle vs the issue I was having before with loss of power. Hoping that I can notice an increase with my gas mileage on my next fill-up.

This is my old O2 sensor on the right, assuming that this is the stock one and hasn't been replaced 112,XXX miles ago. NTK sensor on the left.

Thanks again guys...never would've thought i'd be able to do this by myself if it weren't for your inputs!

airwick its been a few months now.. any updates?

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