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Old 02-03-2012, 02:33 PM   #1
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Smile Making sure I have all my ducks in a row...

Time is getting close for me to get some upgrades done to my jeep. This is what I foresee getting.

1. Ultimate OME lift from DPG Offroad + Brown Dog MM ~$1418
2. 33x12.5x15 Duratracs + Cragar Soft 8s (x5) from Discount - $1498.02
Q: do all of the Cragar 8s come with 4" BS?
Q: is 4" BS enough? (i think i read that it would but too many numbers to keep straight.)
3. Bestop HighRock 4x4 carrier - ~$329

This should get me set, right? Then later down the road I can re-gear, which is a whole other set of question I have from all the research I have done so far. I'm still on the side of being confused.

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Old 02-03-2012, 03:43 PM   #2
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Sounds like a nice package! The MML may not eliminate all your driveline vibes. Every Jeep seems different, so it's gonna be trial-n-error. Test it before dropping the TC with pucks. Consider upgrading your brakes soon after. You'll know what I mean first time you try to make a panic stop. What gearing do you have now? Consider upgrading your control arms at some point. 4" BS should work fine for the wheels. You'll like the OME's ride!

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Old 02-03-2012, 03:54 PM   #3
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I have 3.73 right now on 31s. No complaints at all. I read that everyone says to go to 4.56s for 33s, and out of the 3 different charts / conversion apps i have found, 4.56 seems a bit off. But that can be another entirely different thread if need be. (again, im slightly confused on why)

I have read somewhere, another off road site, to multiply .12 x tire size to determine what gears you want. If so, .12 x 33 is 3.96 (next best would be 4.10s ??.)

I was considering my control arms, but i really don't have it in my budget to get the 2200 extra super duper ultimate package from DPG. I guess if needed i can get those later down the road.

I was under the impression that you don't need to lower the TC with a 2" lift?

My main goal is to run 33s with a decent lift that isnt going to prevent me from getting into the parking garage at work, and also so the missus doesnt have to use a step ladder to get in, but enough to tackle most trails, while being my DD.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:52 AM   #4
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I think it's mostly a choice of personal preference on the gearing and your daily driving conditions. If your 90% freeway/in town commute with occassional offroading, then 4.10's might be the way to go. I also have 3.73 on 31's, and for the most part, it's ok. Sometimes 5th gear is sluggish on hiway hill climbs, so I have to kick down to 4th. I would be concerned with 33's that 5th gear would be virtually useless. The JKS CA's are nice, but I'm glad you are waiting on those so I can have a chance to convince you to go with Currie's CA's. I'll expain after you get your lift on to see if the infamous DW rears it's ugly head.
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:04 PM   #5
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Looks solid. I think the Cragers are 3.75" BS but I may be wrong. Either way you should be fine IIRC.

As far as gearing goes, its entirely dependent on your engine, transmission, and tire size. For the 6cyl and 5 speed, 4.56 is perfect, the 3 speed 4.10 is perfect, the 4 speed 4.88 is perfect.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthetj03
The JKS CA's are nice, but I'm glad you are waiting on those so I can have a chance to convince you to go with Currie's CA's. I'll expain after you get your lift on to see if the infamous DW rears it's ugly head.
I dont mind the additional information but is there another setup with OME with the currie CAs? I was kind of hoping to get it all in one shot. But from what I have read currie is great but may be overkill for what I want
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos
As far as gearing goes, its entirely dependent on your engine, transmission, and tire size. For the 6cyl and 5 speed, 4.56 is perfect, the 3 speed 4.10 is perfect, the 4 speed 4.88 is perfect.
Well here is my concern. I don't want to be pushing almost 3k RPMs to do 65 -70 down the highway. I regularly do 70 - 75 on 31s sitting at 2250 RPMs and it's perfect.

But again, like I said I have seen 3 different charts. All ( from what I can gather) for the 4.0, 5 speed.

I wish like hell that there was someone by me with 4.10s and 4.56s on 33s so I could decide. The agony of choices.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerwalk

Well here is my concern. I don't want to be pushing almost 3k RPMs to do 65 -70 down the highway. I regularly do 70 - 75 on 31s sitting at 2250 RPMs and it's perfect.

But again, like I said I have seen 3 different charts. All ( from what I can gather) for the 4.0, 5 speed.

I wish like hell that there was someone by me with 4.10s and 4.56s on 33s so I could decide. The agony of choices.
Yeah I get what you're saying. At 75mph I'm sitting at 2800rpm but my tires measure closer to a 32 than a 33. It still has plenty of pedal left though. As Jerry B explained to me before I regeared, spinning larger and more massive tires requires more energy and power to spin them. Putting the engine rpm a little higher does that. Also rpm does not equal MPG. If i was at 2200rpm at 75mph, my foot would be to the floor just from wind resistance alone. Before my regear I had 3.73s and 33s and not only was it a dog, but I was averaging 12-13mpg. It was horrible. With 4.56s I average 17mpg in the summer and 16mpg in the winter and that's just city and rural road driving as I don't hit the interstate much. I wouldn't be afraid of a little higher rpm, the 4.0L is tough.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerwalk View Post
I dont mind the additional information but is there another setup with OME with the currie CAs? I was kind of hoping to get it all in one shot. But from what I have read currie is great but may be overkill for what I want
Actually, the Currie arms are less expensive than the JKS arms. Not overkill at all IMO. It's just nice having a rebuildable joint compared to a clevite bushing.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthetj03

Actually, the Currie arms are less expensive than the JKS arms. Not overkill at all IMO. It's just nice having a rebuildable joint compared to a clevite bushing.
Really? I'll definitely check that out then. I could get the delux and the the curry if it works out. Thanks.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos

Yeah I get what you're saying. At 75mph I'm sitting at 2800rpm but my tires measure closer to a 32 than a 33. It still has plenty of pedal left though. As Jerry B explained to me before I regeared, spinning larger and more massive tires requires more energy and power to spin them. Putting the engine rpm a little higher does that. Also rpm does not equal MPG. If i was at 2200rpm at 75mph, my foot would be to the floor just from wind resistance alone. Before my regear I had 3.73s and 33s and not only was it a dog, but I was averaging 12-13mpg. It was horrible. With 4.56s I average 17mpg in the summer and 16mpg in the winter and that's just city and rural road driving as I don't hit the interstate much. I wouldn't be afraid of a little higher rpm, the 4.0L is tough.
And I get what you're saying as well as what JB is saying totally. I just keep getting different conflicting information. But if you are running "33s" with 456 and run 2800 at 75 that's not so bad. I was reading folks were hitting 2800+ @ 65-70. I from time to time do highway driving especially when works sends me out to remote places in west texas.

I wouldn't be so hesitant on going with the 456 over 410 if it weren't so damned much money.
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:03 PM   #12
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Part of the reason some may be saying to go with 4.56s is because the majority of us THINK we only want (insert tire size here), but decide we want to go bigger a year a later. Regearing is an expensive ordeal if you have to pay some one to do it. I would run the 33s on the 3.73s for a while and then decide if you are going to stick with the 33s or move up. Then decide on your gearing.
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:22 PM   #13
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Yeah I get what you're saying. At 75mph I'm sitting at 2800rpm but my tires measure closer to a 32 than a 33. It still has plenty of pedal left though. As Jerry B explained to me before I regeared, spinning larger and more massive tires requires more energy and power to spin them. Putting the engine rpm a little higher does that. Also rpm does not equal MPG. If i was at 2200rpm at 75mph, my foot would be to the floor just from wind resistance alone. Before my regear I had 3.73s and 33s and not only was it a dog, but I was averaging 12-13mpg. It was horrible. With 4.56s I average 17mpg in the summer and 16mpg in the winter and that's just city and rural road driving as I don't hit the interstate much. I wouldn't be afraid of a little higher rpm, the 4.0L is tough.

I don't have much to add to this thread other than this:

What you're saying about MPG's and your foot having to be to the floor to run 75 at 2200 rpm would go hand in hand with poor fuel economy. If you've ever had a vehicle with an instant economy meter or had some sort of OBDII scan tool hooked up to your rig during acceleration you'd understand. The best economy you can get is with little to no input from the throttle pedal (ie: coasting). If you have an instant MPG reader hooked up and you take off with your foot in it, MPG is way down. A little less pedal during take off will bring it up a little but you really notice the MPG increase when you get to your cruising speed and only use the least amount of throttle needed to maintain that speed. If you have to have your foot in it to keep it going, you're going to get bad MPG...
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:30 PM   #14
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wait, i saw you asked "i thought you dont have to drop the tcase for a 2 inch lift?"....dont wanna sound stupid or ask a dumb question but are you getting old man emu's 2.5" lift? if so are you doing a body lift..because i saw where you said a motor mount lift but saw nothing about body lift...just wanna make sure before you get a 2.5" lift and slap 33s on it and wonder why u have no room hahaha
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:31 PM   #15
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wait, i saw you asked "i thought you dont have to drop the tcase for a 2 inch lift?"....dont wanna sound stupid or ask a dumb question but are you getting old man emu's 2.5" lift? if so are you doing a body lift..because i saw where you said a motor mount lift but saw nothing about body lift...just wanna make sure before you get a 2.5" lift and slap 33s on it and wonder why u have no room hahaha
Yeah it's the DPG Offroad ultimate , 2" lift with a 1.25" body lift plus a spacer I believe. The brown dog MML is an upgrade to the JKS MML that comes with the kit.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smccollamjr
Part of the reason some may be saying to go with 4.56s is because the majority of us THINK we only want (insert tire size here), but decide we want to go bigger a year a later. Regearing is an expensive ordeal if you have to pay some one to do it. I would run the 33s on the 3.73s for a while and then decide if you are going to stick with the 33s or move up. Then decide on your gearing.
That's exactly what I am going to do. I am going to upgrade to everything I want for now and then see how it feels after with 33s and 3.73. I will keep the money in the bank for when I decide to regear. I know 33 will be as big as I will go. I have no need for 35s with this being my daily driver and baseball dad vehicle. I only need 1k more which I should have soon, to do all this minus the regearing.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:49 PM   #17
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Check your local laws - you may need wider fender flares to cover the tires.
And changing the speedo gear (not essential, but) might be a good idea.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:09 AM   #18
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Check your local laws - you may need wider fender flares to cover the tires.
And changing the speedo gear (not essential, but) might be a good idea.
Thanks for the reminder. I have a '02 Sahara with stock flares and wheels on 31x10.5s. Will the extra back spacing on the cragars and the 33x12.5s make it stick way out? I'm pretty sure in Texas the laws are pretty loose. Such as all you need is one rear facing mirror capable of 200' distance, for when you choose no doors.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:04 PM   #19
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If you get a wheel with 4" of back spacing or less and a 12.50" tire you'll need extended flares if you want the tires covered.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:34 PM   #20
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I have a 4.0 with an AX15 5 speed, 4.56 gears and 33" tires. At 60 I'm running 2100 rpm. At 65 2400 rpm's and about 2800 at 70-75 plus the big plus is I can go uphill and 5th and not slow down!
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:17 AM   #21
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That just seems high to me. I would be wanting to find a 6th gear. Every manual I have ever owned I have always had to down shift to go up most decent hills and to pass some one.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:20 PM   #22
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In my XJ I had 4.0/AX-15,4.10s and 31s. My rpms were similar to the ones mentioned above. It wasn't bad. If I kept it around 60mph I could get 20 mph with a 3" lift.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:55 PM   #23
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Well let the fun begin. Just ordered the Bestop HighRock 4x4 bumper / tire carrier.

Soon after that will be a phone call to DPG Offroad to seal the deal on the TJ ultimate kit , then to discount for new shoes and wheels!

Will post pics of the progress.

Cheers!
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #24
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Well I just got my first round of goodies this past weekend. The Bestop HighRock 4x4 bumper with carrier is now installed.

All in all it was a great bolt on addition that I am glad I spent the money for. There were only a few things that weren't smooth but nothing big. One complaint I have though is that the part that houses the 3rd brake light was not made correctly so the LED does not show from the center of the spare as it should. Working with Bestop to hopefully get the correctly made part swapped out.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:18 PM   #25
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Yeah so I never came back to update this. Lift went pretty smoothly minus a few things. Here are some before / after shots.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:36 PM   #26
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Looks great. Looks like you also went with MB72 wheels instead of soft 8's?

If so, good choice on wheels. I run them, so I am biased. They are lighter, and stay balanced better than my old steel wheels.

As far as a 3rd brake light, I used my stock wiring and ran them to a 2" led light. It fit perfectly in the cut off end of the MB72 center cap. I put some quick connectors so I can remove the tire.

And, black Jeeps rule, but you already know that.

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Old 03-18-2012, 11:54 PM   #27
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Thanks!

Yeah I went with MB72s. I am glad I went with those instead of steelies.

If you look real close on that pic of the rear you can see the 3rd brake light. Bestop is sending another tire plate cause that one was not drilled correctly for the LED. It's a little to high from center but it works.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:02 AM   #28
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Ahh, I see it now. That's pretty cool. I have the Bestop tub mounted carrier. It came with a bracket for the stock third brake light tower. I didn't want the stock tower anymore, and it would of meant more hole drilling in my Jeep.

I like how they did that on yours.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:50 PM   #29
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I was going to get that one but wasn't wild about drilling into the tub. I always like the option of being able to reverse what I have done in most cases with out noticeable damage.
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:43 PM   #30
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Like the wheel/tire combo. Looking good

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