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Old 05-02-2007, 09:56 AM   #1
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Question Myth or Not?

Ok, my baby's in the shop... LR brakes fell apart a couple days ago. Brake fluid running down the tire... dang!

98 TJ - 127k mi, 31s on 8in rims.

Been having probs with keeping tires balanced, so took it to Goodyear. They say 3 of 4 are "bent" out of round. (black steel rims with the red & blue pinstripes - only had them 3 yrs)

The guys at Gy had to replace 2 lugs 2 months ago, and 1 lug last week. They said it was from the "steel" rims and the wider tires. Suggested I go for aluminum rims.

I've read quite a bit on forums, but never ran across this... is it true?

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Old 05-02-2007, 10:00 AM   #2
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Sounds more like IR 231 or 244 damage to me.
In other words use of an Impact wrench instead of a torque wrench or torque stick will stretch studs. and tweek wheels. I have seen both happen.
Steel wheels are notorious for balance problems, but I would take it to a second shop just to make sure.

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Old 05-02-2007, 10:23 AM   #3
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Sounds more like...

Thank you!!
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:38 AM   #4
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not a problem at all. Hope it helps some.

Not to get off kilter here but I just had a run-in with a tire shop a little bit ago. Its sad when I had to walk out with their tire jockey and tell him how to balance my tires. He came to me and said I needed 8 ounces to balance my right front. I asked him if he spun the tire on the wheel. The kid got a blank stare and said HUH???. I believe a person should know their job. For those members that I lost in my rant here. When you spin the tire on the wheel you put the heavy spot in the wheel oposite the heavy spot in the rubber. Sometimes it takes a few tries but usually works ok.

Oh and to add to this thread that same kid used an impact and crossthreaded one of the lugs on the rear passenger side. So that stuff happens all the time.
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:12 PM   #5
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im with odhinn. i worked at my fair share of tire shops. using the torque sticks was rare (most are ~90lbs-120lbs) and just use the impact till it starts whining(mosy 1/2in impacts are rated at around 200-250 lbs torque forwards..). i have seen many crossthreaded lugs, numerous stretched studs, and plenty of steel wheels torqued bent with impacts by using too much torque or wrong tightening pattern.

good luck proving it though
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:02 PM   #6
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Question im with odhinn...

Well... that definitely makes me feel better about the diagnosis, and that then adds to the questions!! LOL.

With my rims out of round, then I suppose that they are causing additional wear on the vehicle the longer I use them, right?!

So, in following that thread, the purchase of new rims is probably a good idea!... but with the mechanics suggestion of "aluminum," should I be looking in that particular direction, or is there some other alternative?

Thanks all!!
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:31 PM   #7
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I don't think the problem is with steel wheels. The problem lies with tire monkeys that have little or no training and are handed impact wrenches.

Local shop put the new tires and wheels on but forgot the center caps. Went back a week later for them to install the center caps. Found two studs stripped or broken and had to be replaced. They were very quiet and the best part was they had to run to two different places to get new studs. Time consuming for me but none-the-less fun to watch!
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:53 PM   #8
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well if the steelies are warped from impacts,yes it will never balance right and will cause some increased wear. keep in mind, your tires should be rotated and rebalanced every 3,000mi, most people dont, so thats how much added wear it causes. Mostly itll be wear on your springs/shocks, tires, brakes, and can help loosen up your interior(squeeks). It CAN increase trans/xfer case/rear diff wear,but it will be mostly seal damage at the inputs/outputs.

If you can deal w/ the vibration, just wait till you need new tires and swap em out then. New alloys are more newb proof, steelies are fine if you watch them us a torque stick every rotation etc.
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Old 05-04-2007, 09:20 AM   #9
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Thankx All!!

Thankx everyone! I really appreciate the info.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:50 PM   #10
coilovers are damn flexy
 
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteyj View Post
I don't think the problem is with steel wheels. The problem lies with tire monkeys that have little or no training and are handed impact wrenches.

The out of round steel wheel is very well documented. I have witnessed it on a tire balance machine on more than one occasion and on more than just my vehicle. Granted, you can't give any tire monkey the benefit of the doubt.

It is pretty simple to tell if the wheel is out of round, which most steelie wheels are crooked straight from the factory. Once on the machine there is a specific tool used to check for roundness. They should use it every time and relay their findings to the owner. Aluminum wheels are lighter, hold a bead better when aired down, and run true down the road. That's why I run them now.

I have one 35x13.50 Toyo Open Country MT on an aluminum wheel that took .5oz of weight to balance. That is 1/2 of an ounce. The rest were under 6oz. You can watch the tire wobble vertically if the heavy side of the tire and wheel are opposite. Just like what Odhinn said.
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Old 05-04-2007, 09:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteyj View Post
I don't think the problem is with steel wheels. The problem lies with tire monkeys that have little or no training and are handed impact wrenches
You know whats worse? Somekid with no common sense tightening a crankshaft pulley BOLT with a impact wrench without PRE-STARTING it!!! Not me but a person from the forum of my previus car.. Miata. One screw holds the entire front end... bad design but thats not the point


The only way to fix it is preatty much drill it and retap it if possible since its hardened or replace the crankshaft
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Old 05-05-2007, 12:16 PM   #13
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You know when I was apprenticing after my school. The senior techs didn't allow me to use air tools on vehicles until I could prove I was worthy and knew what I was doing. Yep unless it was removing lugs, impacts were forbidden. Got me in the habit of hand tightening lugs, bolt, nuts and using a torque wrench.
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Old 05-05-2007, 12:39 PM   #14
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That your steel wheels may be bent out of round doesn't surprise me in the least. I switched from aluminum to steel for a few years and went back to aluminum. Steel wheels are just bent and dented too easily if you do trails much more difficult than a fire road. I was always after my steel wheels with a small sledgehammer to keep them round enough so they'd hold air from being dented so easily on the trail.
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Old 05-05-2007, 09:59 PM   #15
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That your steel wheels may be bent out of round doesn't surprise me in the least
especially when tightened one after the other instead of the star pattern

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