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Old 01-04-2012, 09:15 PM   #91
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PCM was bad in my similar situation...

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Old 01-05-2012, 01:15 PM   #92
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JERRY:

New Crankshaft Sensor in.....

STILL NOTHING!!!!!

OK, now, any other ideas???

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Old 01-05-2012, 01:20 PM   #93
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Bad relay SOCKET? It does happen. It honestly sounds like the relay (which you changed 99 times, lol) or socket is bad. I mean, you jump A6 and A7, and it starts. That means everything is working except that part, right?
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:23 PM   #94
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Correct.

What is the remedy for that? I am sure the underside of the socket has permanentlly attached wire leads.....

I guess I could disect the PDC and reattach the relay independent of the PDC with fresh wire leads....

But...would rather have an easier fix.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:28 PM   #95
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Sorry the cps didn't fix it which is surprising. At this point, it's going to take some basic electrical troubleshooting skills with a voltmeter.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #96
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I have those skills....

I have the Service Manual too....

Suggestions on where to start
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:41 PM   #97
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You need to make sure the relay is actually working. Basic stuff: are you getting voltage to the coil? If so, are the contacts changing state?

That's what I would check. Disconnect the wiring except for the coil, check coil with voltmeter, check contacts with ohms. Easy stuff. (but I work on stuff like this all the time, lol. Sorry.) Check it in circuit, then check it out of circuit with a battery. I'm really curious. If it was my jeep, and I'd had it sitting for well over a month, I'd be insane.

I've punted the ball back to the mechanic after several days of this kind of stuff. Probably why my old charge cards were maxed out.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:14 PM   #98
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Bubba:

Camshaft Sensor is NEW
Coil is NEW
Crank Sensor is NEW
Fuel Pump is NEW
PCM is flashed and refirbished

Jeep starts when I add about 8oz of gas to intake. runs till gas runs out. Engine even runs smooth during that short time.

I replaced the horn Clock Spring but I can not see how that would affect the fuel pump electrical system.

I am about to tear out the PDC and see if the relay for the fuel pump has a bad connetion, corosion or a bad wire.

Not much else to check.

I DO NOT KNOW where the grounds for the circiuits for the fuel pump are terminated but if the ground was bad the fuel pump would not work when I bridged A6 and A7...

So, not sure what tests to run....advice?
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:20 AM   #99
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What about ignition module. Or can you use a separate ground wire from the fuel pump relay and have the system work so u can get that jeep of yours out of the garage
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:50 AM   #100
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Take the relay out, and check it like I posted above. You have to be 100% sure it works.

No power on relay - connection using ohmmeter between A9 and A6.
Power on relay A10 and A8 - connection using ohmmeter between A7 and A6.

After you do that:

Check voltage to the coil when your ignition is ON. You should have voltage. If you have voltage to the relay, and the relay is activating, A6 and A7 SHOULD WORK. If not, I would look at the socket or wiring.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:59 AM   #101
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Bubba:

About to do the tests u suggested.

BUT first, I took the PDC apart and the wire connections into the socket are solid! no corrosion, no loose wires. All looks good.

Will get back a you with the test results.

BTW.....on a side question, do you know where the grounding strap for the GAS FULLER TUBE connects to the body? When i removed the gas tank, the grounding strap broke. I got a new one but can not find the location were it connects to the body or other grounding location....
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:16 PM   #102
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OK, following your directions.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hambubba View Post
Take the relay out, and check it like I posted above. You have to be 100% sure it works.

No power on relay - connection using ohmmeter between A9 and A6.
A9 is not used and no wire is even present in the socket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hambubba View Post
Power on relay A10 and A8 - connection using ohmmeter between A7 and A6.
Tested as reqested above....strange though. 12V with IGN on at A10 and A8. OHMS between A6 and A7 are 0.0 Ohms

That shows continuity but NO GAS!!! If I connect the jumper btwn A6 and A7 I get gas flow....BIG TIME GAS FLOW.

Coil shows VOLTAGE
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:53 PM   #103
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Bubba:

I also tested the PDC connections from the bottom after removing it from the cradle. NO connections were bad or coroded.

The test results are as follows:


Relay IN Relay OUT
IGN OFF IGN On IGN OFF IGN ON
A6 12V 12V 12V 12V (HOT fused 12V)
A7 0V 0V 0V 0V (TO Fuel Pump)
A8 0 12V 0V 12V (From IGN Switch)
A10 0V 12V 0V 0V (Relay Control - PCM)

This shows me that the Ignition Switch is working by spplying 12V to A8

This also shows that the relay is working to provide 12V to the PCM when the Relay is in place and the Ignition Switch send 12V to the relay.

More to follow.....
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:03 PM   #104
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Tested ALL 3 of the relays I have. All are good. Put OHM Meter on A6 and A7

Applied Voltage to A8 and Grounded A10.

The Relay Clicked and I got Continuity Between A6 and A7

Now, I am thinking it might be a ground problem AFTER the the PCM

Correct me if I am wrong but does the PCM only provide the grounding control to the relay???
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:05 PM   #105
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A9 is the other side of the relay, used or not. when you check these, it's good to know the relay doesn't "stick". Sounds good, though...

If the relay is working and jumping the connections works, there's a socket problem. Can you wire it direct, without using the socket? You've shown the connection works, and the relay works. There's only one thing missing as far as I can tell. I'm going to go out and take a look at mine, though, just to get my thinker moving better.

ETA: I have no idea how that part is wired.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:17 PM   #106
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Maybe I am missing something. By socket do you mean the acutal female plug part inside the PDC?

If so, I check all the connections and they are fine. But I will double check now
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #107
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Just looked at the PDC and I can remove the actual wires from the back. There are ever so tiny clips holding them in.....but they all seem fine and have good grip on the relay once in place.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:38 PM   #108
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I glanced over this but.... the question you need to ask is: where are you getting fuel to?

I recently changed a fuel pump located in the tank of a vehicle. It had a low pressure pump in the tank and a high pressure one under the vehicle.

Everything worked great, for a while. The vehicle would die sometimes, and then, start back up. Everytime I tried to troubleshoot it, it worked like you would expect it.

It finally died one time while I was in it, so we toed it back to my place. Yeah, you could hear the pump engage, but the new pump was bad. I disconnected the lines until I found that the one coming from the tank didn't put out enough gas. I replaced the new pump with a "newer" pump and...problem solved. no more shut offs.

Like I said, I glanced through this thread so I don't know what all you've tried but seeing fuel actually coming from a line means more than hearing a damn noise from under the vehicle. and yes, a new pump can be bad. Already been there with Autozone chinese crap.

You need to make sure it's pumping gas and that the lines arn't cinked up.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:49 PM   #109
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OK! NEW TEST RESULT:

I tested it with the RELAY IN and IGN ON!

At first glance I got nothing. But...

When I too the A10 connection and DIRECTLY GROUNDED IT the GAS FLOW STARTED.

So, I am looking at a ground problem. BUT the A10 terminal GOES straight to the PCM.

I check Continuity from A10 to terminal C19 for the plug that goes into the PCM and the continuity is fine. So, the issue is either AFTER the PCM.....( where does the terminal C19 lead inside the PCM and where does it go) or the PCM itself which I just paid to have refirbished......
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:59 PM   #110
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There are TWO ground terminal inside the PCM

These are A31 and A32

They are on a different connector than the Fuel Pump but I am sure they act as grounds for all controls within the PCM.

These all go to what is called G105 (which is GROUND 105)

They travel thru S130 (which is SPLICE 130)

I guess I need to find Ground 105 and see if it is bad
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:04 PM   #111
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BUT!!!!!!!!!!

If the ground is not working for the Fuel Pump, would not alot of the other systems not work either???? IT does turn over! IT does start when I add gas to the intake system.....

Hummmmm

Not sure about all this now
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:59 AM   #112
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Testing ground leads A31 and A32 today. fingers crossed i have a bad ground
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:51 AM   #113
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It could be something in the pcm logic causing it to not turn on the pump.

Check the grounds first, but if that dead ends you should look into that.

Also, check for voltage with the key on going into the pcm terminal that is supposed to be ground for the relay coil. I know it may not make sense, but it will tell us something. Anything less than battery voltage means you have high resistance in the circuit.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:25 AM   #114
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Grounds look good.

A31 and A32 show good ground. tested at connector to engine ground and battery ground. all good!

Thinking PCM now....will ck voltage to it now.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:47 AM   #115
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possible problem.

A4 has resistance.

A4 is on the black connector into the PCM

A4 is the SENSOR Ground. this terminal is ground for all sensors.....

ideas?
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:50 PM   #116
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Can you take a picture of where you are measuring resistance? Where are the probes? Is the schematic you are using online so i can see what you are doing?
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:09 PM   #117
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schematic is the jeep service manual.

i am testing resistence from A4 down the wire to see where the prob is.

Also tested resistence between C19 and the relay plug....it is 0.00

Resistence between A4 and engine ground is about 4 - 6.5

Resistence btwn A4 and battery ground is 0.00

what pics would help u?
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:18 PM   #118
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Check resistance between the engine ground and the battery.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:24 PM   #119
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Engine ground to Battery Terminal itself =. 0.2 ohms

Engine ground to Negative terminal clamp = 0.0
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:41 PM   #120
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Hmm doesn't make sense to have that high resistance from a4 to engine ground. Are you measuring at the same place?

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