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Old 11-02-2011, 06:14 PM   #1
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NEW Fuel Pump In!!!....Still wont start

FOLLOW UP to post:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/no-g...or-119958.html

OK, replaced the entire fuel pump assembly. Took some time but it is in. Plugged it in, reconnected all wires and hoses....cranked engine...NOTTA!!! This is in a 2.5L 1997 Wrangler 5 speed

Poured some gas into the intake and bingo, started right up but dies as soon as the gas in the intake burned off.

Any ideas? Pleanty of spark, turns over like a champ, I did not do anything else other than replace the control arms, tie rods and shocks. I also replace the clockspring in the column.

I can not think of anything I did that would suddenly cause jeep to NOT START. I drove it into my garage three weeks ago to do the control arms. It ran GREAT then!

PLEASE....Ideas?

BTW....I have replaced the clockspring, Camshaft Position Sensor, and IAC in the recent past....

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Old 11-02-2011, 08:58 PM   #2
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Did you give the new fuel pump time to get fuel up to the fuel injectors? Like cycling the fuel pump 6-8 times by turning the ignition switch on-off-on so it can have enough time to get the fuel pumped all the way up to the engine?

Is the fuel pump at least briefly turning on each time you turn the ignition switch to the On (not Start) position? The fuel pump will run 1-2 seconds each time you turn the ignition switch to the On position, then it will shut off.

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Old 11-02-2011, 09:25 PM   #3
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When you turn the key to just the on position does the yellow check engine light come on? Have you checked for power at the fuel pump? swap the fuel pump relay with one of the others that has the same part # on it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:04 PM   #4
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Sounds like fuel pump relay to me. Also check crank sensor.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:19 AM   #5
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will crawl back under and see if the crank sensor is dead or disconnected. i did replace the upstream O2 sensor too. maybe i knocked the plug out.

i have listened for the pump but have also NOT specifically heard it hummmmmm.

will post more tomorrow
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:42 AM   #6
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If you have fuel injection, I would first check fuel pressure. If the pressure is good, then use a noid light to see if the injectors are firing. Most likely the distributor fires the injectors, and it has a pick up that fires the injectors.
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:06 AM   #7
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well i am getting NO GAS to the injectors. after putting the new pump in i tried to crank engine. it cranked fine but would not start. i then put gas into the intake and it fired great and ran for about 10 seconds and died.

next i puled the fuel hose off that connects to the rail and cranked. No gas came out.

So, from this point i am going to finish coffee and crawl under it to see if it is the crank sensor. in the mean time, any other ideas?
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiller0737 View Post
When you turn the key to just the on position does the yellow check engine light come on? Have you checked for power at the fuel pump? swap the fuel pump relay with one of the others that has the same part # on it.
x2 also check fuses, what year is your jeep?
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:00 AM   #9
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97 wrangler se 2.5L

i checked the relay..even replaced it. fuse box behind glove box does not have a fuse for fuel pump....
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Did you give the new fuel pump time to get fuel up to the fuel injectors? Like cycling the fuel pump 6-8 times by turning the ignition switch on-off-on so it can have enough time to get the fuel pumped all the way up to the engine?

Is the fuel pump at least briefly turning on each time you turn the ignition switch to the On (not Start) position? The fuel pump will run 1-2 seconds each time you turn the ignition switch to the On position, then it will shut off.
The pump also runs during cranking and will fill the line in 2-5 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Phaeton View Post
Sounds like fuel pump relay to me. Also check crank sensor.
It could easily be the relay, but not the crank sensor because he says he has spark.

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Originally Posted by cthies View Post
in the mean time, any other ideas?
Like others have mentioned, bust out the volt meter and check the relay, and then check voltage at the pump. you can hear the pump turn on if its quiet. If its not quiet have a friend turn it on and listen by the tank. It makes a noticeable noise.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:19 AM   #11
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checked the crank sensor. it is connected but did not test functionality. will replace it for giggles today but am doubting that is the source.

Cant figure why pump is not sending gas down the line......
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:52 AM   #12
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Just checked and AdvanceAuto wants $72 for the crankshaft Pos. Sensor....I think I will pass on that since I dont think that sensor has anything to do with the fuel pump working.....NEXT IDEA?

What about the Throttle Position Sensor. Does that have anything to do with the fuel pump sending fuel down the line?

....not sure i mentioned it but i put a NEW relay in. not liking idea of cking voltage at pump. connector is a pain to get to, as i am sure everyone knows. but that is on my list.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:56 AM   #13
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TPS has no control over the fuel pump. If you get power to the relay, and power from the relay, there is an issue between the relay and the pump. Don't replace anything else.
You can probe the wires going to the fuel pump without dropping the tank. I think they run along the rear bumper and are part of this bundle. the loose wires are evap wires.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:08 PM   #14
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ok guys imma put my .02 in so dont shoot!! but i have a blazer n i had a fuel problem. i replaced the pump, the "sending unit" (the thing the pump sits is cuzz they CAN go bad), relay, filter, everything you can think of. one day i was reading n i found that the ignition starter switch somehow is tied into the fuel system. i replaced that n all way good. thats just what happend to me

so i would look into the ignition starter switch
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cthies View Post
Just checked and AdvanceAuto wants $72 for the crankshaft Pos. Sensor....I think I will pass on that since I dont think that sensor has anything to do with the fuel pump working.....NEXT IDEA?

What about the Throttle Position Sensor. Does that have anything to do with the fuel pump sending fuel down the line?

....not sure i mentioned it but i put a NEW relay in. not liking idea of cking voltage at pump. connector is a pain to get to, as i am sure everyone knows. but that is on my list.
Do not waste your money on either a Crank Sensor or TPS neither will fix your no fuel pressure issue,Check Fuse #16 in the Under Hood Fuse Box (Power Distribution Center)Also Check Fuse #11 in the fuse box behind the glove box,Don't just pull them & look at them check for voltage on both sides with a voltmeter or 12 volt test light,At the Fuel Pump check the Dark Green Wire with a White Stripe for Power when cranking ( note will only have power for a few seconds when key is on & not cranking) also check the black wire @ the fuel pump unit to be sure it has a good ground.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:48 AM   #16
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ok. i am going to bust out the volt meter. get the significant other to help with cranking as i test. give me a day or two get my results.

THANKS everyone!
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:16 AM   #17
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OK, after a brief delay I was able to use a voltmeter to test the parameters suggested by different forum members.

Voltage is good at the RELAY BOX under the hood. The new relay tests fine

Voltage at the pump, as tested by seperating the wire connector....

Black - GROUND IS STRONG
Green-White - NO POWER UNDER CRANK OR WITH KEY OFF
Blue?- 3 - 4 Volts under Crank
Brown-Yellow - No Reading on Voltmeter

The schematic for the Fuel Pump Relay shows the following Info:

Green-White = Fuel Pump Relay Output
Blue = Fuel Level Sensor Signal
Brown-Yellow = Sensor Ground
Black = Ground

All fuses are good

At this point, I need to know what is blocking the voltage from getting to the module. NO VOLTS on Green-White Wire.

IF IT GETS voltage, does anyone know the reading it should be at?
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:27 AM   #18
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It should be 12+ volts. You can try running another wire from the relay to the pump to bypass the wire that does not work. Check continuity on the green white to confirm an open circuit.
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:34 PM   #19
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Voltage is good at the RELAY BOX under the hood. The new relay tests fine
Did you hear it click when you turned the key to 'ON'?

Is there (take the relais out) a constant 12V on one of the connections?

If all that works, then as was said you have a problem with the green-white cable.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:23 PM   #20
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OK...here is the situ. Might sound simple but let me see what u guys think.

According to the Service Manual the Fuel Pump Relay in the panel under the hood uses wires:

A6 - Fused (HOT)
A7 - Fuel Pump Relay Output (Green-White --- GOES TO FUEL PUMP)
A8 - Fused Ignition Switch Output (Run/Start)
A9 - NO WIRE
A10 - Fuel Pump Relay Control

I get 12+ Volts at A6, A8 and A10 with Key in On Position. Key in Off Positon I get 12+ Volts ONLY AT A6

I get no Volts at A7 but when I attach a jumper between A6 (HOT) and A7 the Pump starts like a gusher.

So that seems to lead to the Relay being bad but I have a new relay and it does not work. I guess it could be bad but I like to believe in new things actually working like they should.

So....WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO? Get another new relay or is there another reason for this?
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:51 PM   #21
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Yeah, bad relay. You can try swapping another one from something else (headlight or ?) and see if the pump turns on.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:46 PM   #22
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OK, Got another NEW Relay...at $10 a pop I cant do this forever.

Plugged it in...NOTHING!!!!!

Again, tested the the Power Dist Center where the Relay is plugged in.

A6 - HOT
A7 - TO FUEL PUMP (green white wire)
A8 - Fused Ignition Switch output - 12Volts
A10 - Fuel Pump Relay Control (THIS COMES FROM COMPUTER) - 12V with Key On and ZERO Volts with Key Off....this tells me that required power is comming from the computer.

AGAIN, when I touch two leads that are connected to the A6 and A7 spots I get CRAZY GAS POURING OUT.

When I connect a Voltmeter to A7 when the engine is being cranked, I still get no volts going to the pump.

WHAT DO I KNOW....

1. The wire to the pump must be good since it pumps gas when I directly connect a 12V hot wire.

2. The Pump must be ok if the above in #1 is true.

3. I am on my 3rd Relay....all 3 cant be bad.

Now I am left with a big fat "I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO"

Any ideas?
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:28 PM   #23
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do you hear / feel the relay click when you turn the key on? maybe its the wires on the backside of the relay? Are you testing voltage to A10 with the relay in place?
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:21 PM   #24
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Had the same problem a few years ago with a 91 2.5 and it ended up being the Auto Shut Down relay, which was next to the Fuel Pump Relay. A few years after that it was the ground wire for the pump, which was in the tank. I replaced the ground wire (and pump since I was there) and no problems.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:45 PM   #25
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ok, the voltage to A10 was checked with the relay in place. It checks out at 12volts with key on

I will look to replace the ASD and see what happens....

Between now and tomorrow....ANY OTHER IDEAS????

THANKS everyone!
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:18 PM   #26
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There is no ground on the relay?? All you have is +12V???

A10 should be a ground activating wire, so the relay can work.

From the FSM (K31 is A10)



If you realy get +12V on A10, you may have a PCM and/or ground problem.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:57 PM   #27
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Or..you hit the wires by accident and now A10 and A8 (or another wire) are connected, feeding +12V to A10...

I would check the wires from the PCM to the relay case. Check the PCM connector for water or corrosion..

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Did you hear it click when you turned the key to 'ON'?
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Originally Posted by jgorm View Post
do you hear / feel the relay click when you turn the key on?
I guess he's not....
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:29 AM   #28
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i dont think any wires got crossed. i havent disturbed any wires or connectors. i simply replaced my control arms and clock spring. when i went start it when i was done......NOTHING....and so here we are today. ugh!
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:31 AM   #29
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well...something is wrong somewhere since you get 12V at A10...

Let's try something else.

Take the relay out, put the voltmeter between A8 and A10. Have someone put the ignition in the 'On' position.

See what happens. It should read 12V for about 2 secs, then drop to 0 again.
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:37 AM   #30
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So long as the ignition key is on, 12v at A10 is normal since 12v is provided to A8. You're simply measuring 12v at A10 because it it is passing through the solenoid's coil. The only time A10 won't have +12v on it is when A10 is grounded by the PCM to energize the fuel pump.

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