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Old 07-13-2011, 08:16 AM   #1
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No Ignition! Horn works, lights, but not dash light when Key is turned

Hello all. As odd as it may sound I saved a 1997 Tj SE from the salvage, from a frustrated owner who put 170,000 miles on it and it just quit. After doing everything I could find, new ignition module, battery, cables to the power dist box, and NOT consulting here first, I took it to a dealership and $350.00 later we had ignition but no start, Fuel pump burned out. I dropped the tank put in a new pump and SHAZAM!! she was breathing. Been running great for about a year now.

Well she has been sitting for about three weeks (not a rare occasion) but this time we got in turned the key, NOTHING!!!!! Just like before. No dash lights no engine turn over. Door buzzer works when key is in, horn works, lights work, just no ignition. I checked the hot wire to the distribution panel (where the fuses are) all look good but disconnected and cleaned anyway. I feel stupid because I never asked the dealership EXACTLY what they did to fix this problem the first time.

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Old 07-13-2011, 10:14 AM   #2
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If it feels kinda strange when you turn the key then it could be the ignition pin assembly. Its between the cylinder and ignition switch.

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Old 07-13-2011, 10:15 AM   #3
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Sounds like you have lost power to the ignition switch. Check the IGN fuse is OK and check that there is actually power getting to it. Also you can check to see if the ignition switch harness disconnect on the streeing column is loose or corroded although that's probably OK as the "key in ignition sensor" is working to cause the door buzzer to sound.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:20 AM   #4
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TOFIAM, Will there be power running through the fuse when the switch is off? or does it matter.. I'm Not an electrics guy as you can tell. And if there is no power to it then what?
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:54 AM   #5
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Yes, power goes to the ignition switch through the fuse all the time, so the fuse should be electrically hot even with the key out. When you turn on the ignition switch then the power goes to the dash lights, the starter, etc.

If the fuse is good and there is power to it, then look for a break in the wiring between the fuse and the ignition switch.

I'm at work right now and don't have my wiring diagram/s with me but could get you more detail this evening after work.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:36 AM   #6
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Ok. I pulled the cylinder and the ignition module last night, all seems ok nothing broken connections are tight. On the large connector going to the module I am getting voltage to the red wire. I am getting voltage to the IGN fuse at the dist panel also. I unplugged sprayed and replugged both large connectors from the harness at the firewall to the PCM. Still nothing
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:53 AM   #7
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Good so far. Do you have power getting through the ignition switch when the key is on?
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:58 AM   #8
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Just to ask the obvious...did you check your battery? It kind of sound like you have a dead battery. If the voltage on it is low then all the lights and other electrical system items will work. As soon as you turn the key to start your Jeep the the voltage drops and it doesnt have enough juice to turn the engine. If you take a volt meter and put your leads on the battery terminals it should read between 13 and 14 volts with the key in the off position. Have someone try to crank it and watch the meter. If the voltage drops off then you know you have a bad battery. And when I say the voltage drops off it doesnt go down much. It might get down to about 9 volts and that wont be enough to start it. I might be in the wrong ballpark here but it is a simple check you can do. If you do this make sure the volt meter is set to Direct Current(DC). If you have it on Alternating Current(AC) it wont give a correct readout.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:02 AM   #9
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I should have asked this before I posted my previous response but, how old is your battery? From what I read it sounds fairly new. If that is the case I would still suggest trouble shooting the system like I explained. If it isnt the battery you might have a grounding issue. You might have to trace out your wires and make sure you have good metal to metal grounds and that you dont have any direct shorts on the positive side of the system. Im sorry if I confused you at all. If you have questions hit me up.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:53 PM   #10
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BHall1244 is right, it might be the battery.

The easiest way to tell is to try jump starting your jeep from another vehicle using a decent set of jumper cables.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:24 PM   #11
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tfinklea any luck with it? Or any new leads?
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:50 PM   #12
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Check the battery cables, clean thoroughly, inspect for ANY corosion on the wire itself, retighten. Look at both ends, battery side and other end. Replace if corrosion.
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Old 07-15-2011, 07:13 AM   #13
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Thanks Guys. The battery is new. I get 14.2 volts at the battery teminnals and 13 volts at the dist panel. The terminals were new a year ago and are coated with dielectric red grease It looks like it came from the factory. I did try and jump it immediately when it wouldnt do anything initially. Just to be on the safe side I put the battery on charge last night form 5:30 until 7 am this morning. Still nothing. I will trace the grounds, Ideas on where they are?
TOFIAM, when the key is on, which wires should have power at the large connector?
Thanks guys. When I figure this out with your help I am going to post it to every thread I can find to help others!
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:08 AM   #14
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You're on the right path, but there is some very detailed (color wire, pin number, etc) wiring testing yet to do so I think the best thing for you is to get a wiring diagram for your jeep so you can more easily troubleshoot.

Go here AutoZone Auto Parts Stores | Motor Oil, Exhaust Systems, Suspension Parts, Car Starters, Car Stereo, Radiator Hoses, Headlights, Car Accessories, and More - AutoZone.com and register. It's free and once you register you can access complete wiring diagram/s for your jeep, broken out in section by section, along with tons of other good data.

After you register, add your jeep, then select Vehicle Repair Guides, then select Wiring Diagrams from the list of available guides.

With the wiring diagram I think you'll be up and running real soon. But if you hit a snag let me know and I'll do what I can.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:00 AM   #15
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OK, a little more help, I hope.

The ignition switch is fed from the power distribution block through fuse 3 and on to the ignition switch via a red wire through 3 connectors, C100, C106, and C308 pin 7. You've check all this I think.

Now, if the switch itself is good then when you turn the key on there should be power passing through the switch and showing up on the dark blue wire which goes back through connector C308 on pin 9 and then on to fuse 11 passing through connector C318 pin 9.

So, check for power at fuse 11 (only on one side if you have pulled the fuse) when the key is ON, but not when the key is off. If you have power at fuse 11 and the fuse itself is good, then check for power leaving fuse 11 on the light green wire also in connector C318 on pin 31.

This light green wire then goes to a breakout, S102, where it feeds power to the PCM, the fuel pump, the EVAP solenoid, etc. Fuse 11 and breakout S103 are critical points.

Check for power on the light green wire on the PCM connector, C150 pin A2 when the key is on. C150 pin A22 is where you found power all the time, and that is normal.

Hope this helps, let us know what you find out.
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:10 PM   #16
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No power out of fuse 11, 10 amp fuse behind glove box.
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfinklea View Post
No power out of fuse 11, 10 amp fuse behind glove box.
i had a buss bar burn out on the back of a fuse block once , easy to check . run a positive wire to the fuse and see if it starts
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:24 AM   #18
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You're sure the fuse is good? I've seen them look good, even ohm good but still not pass any usable current. Try a different 10 amp fuse. And be sure the contacts are super clean.

If that fails it's time to disconnect the battery and pull the fuse block out far enough to see the back side. Like hookuspookus said it might be burned through, or cracked.

Maybe that's what the original problem was and the dealer did a lousy repair which has failed and put you back where you were before.
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Old 07-16-2011, 07:02 PM   #19
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Cool I think that is exactly what I will do. I'm gonna jump it from another hot spot to see if that works. Then regardless pull the panel.
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Old 07-16-2011, 07:03 PM   #20
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Oh I did try a brand new 10 amp just on case. Thanks all. Will keep you updated
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:58 AM   #21
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OK. Pulled the fuse panel all looked ok but I cleaned it anyway. No start or panel lights. Disconnected the negative, jumped a wire from the large red wire (checked 12.4 volts) to the opposite side of the number 11 fuse. (lefft fuse in and did this on back) VOILA!!! it worked....... It started and drove fine. Would not turn off via ignition switch had to pull jumper off. Now what?? I'm confused on exactly what this means. And what needs repaired.
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:18 AM   #22
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When you used the jumper you bypassed the ignition switch, that's why you could not turn off the engine with the key.

Did you ever check for power on the light green wire on the PCM connector, C150 pin A2 when the key is on? I'll bet it isn't unless you use the jumper.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:14 AM   #23
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OK. Pulled the fuse panel all looked ok but I cleaned it anyway. No start or panel lights. Disconnected the negative, jumped a wire from the large red wire (checked 12.4 volts) to the opposite side of the number 11 fuse. (lefft fuse in and did this on back) VOILA!!! it worked....... It started and drove fine. Would not turn off via ignition switch had to pull jumper off. Now what?? I'm confused on exactly what this means. And what needs repaired.
now you need to bring a switched positive to the back of that terminal and your finished . a bad section of wire from a wire maker is not uncommon . buy a volvo and you'll see this alot . glad to have helped
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Old 07-23-2011, 08:59 AM   #24
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I did check that one. No power. I would rather repair the problem Can anyone tell me how. Until then I will add a switch.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:59 PM   #25
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Yes, it can be repaired as soon as we know exactly where the problem is. I will be happy to help if you like.

OK, no power to the PCM without the jumper. But with the jumper you obviously did since the jeep started. So, there has to be a break in the circuit either in the fuse holder or???

Let's take this step at a time.
From where to where did you hook the jumper? And do you have power to fuse 11 with the key on, power on both sides of fuse 11?
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Old 07-25-2011, 03:16 PM   #26
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Jumped from lg red wire on back of panel to the red/brown wire on back of 11
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:40 PM   #27
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Since you were able to get your jeep to start with the jumper then the problem has to be either the fuse 11 socket, since you jumpered to the output side of fuse 11 (10A) we don't know for sure, or it's between fuse 11 and fuse 3 (30A) in the Power Distribution Center.

To check the fuse 11 socket in the fuse block, try the jumper again only go to the battery side of fuse 11, that should be the dark blue wire on pin 9 of the fuse block connector. If it works then the fuse block is OK. If it does not work then the contacts for fuse 11 are bad and need to be repaired or replaced.

If it did work then check the ignition switch next. Check for power going to the ignition switch on pin 7 (should be a red wire) of the ignition switch connector.

If there is power to the ignition switch connector, check to see if there is power coming out of the ignition switch when the key is on. The power leaves the switch on pin 9 of the ignition switch connector, should be a dark blue 14 gauge wire, and goes directly to fuse 11 on pin 9 of the fuse block connector. There should be power on both ends with the key on.

If you have power on pin 9 of the ignition switch connector then the switch is OK. Check for power on pin 9 of the fuse block connector. If there is no power then the dark blue wire going to the fuse block connector may be bad. Check the dark blue wire for breaks/corrosion. Replace the wire if needed. It's 14 gauge.

If there is power to the ignition switch connector pin 7 but no power out then the switch is bad or need its contacts cleaned.

If there is no power to the ignition switch connector then the trouble is between the ignition switch connector and fuse 3 in the Power Distribution Center. Clean fuse 3 contacts, clean the connector contact pin 2 of the Power Distribution Center, try a new fuse, follow the wire with your eyes and hands and find the intermediate connector and clean it (pin 14), and look for breaks or bad spots in the wire. Replace the wire if needed. It's a 14 gauge red wire.

Hopefully this will help you find the problem. If any of this doesn't make sense, and it may not it was a rough day at work, then PM me and I will try to sort it out for you.

Good luck, let us know what you find.

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