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Old 03-19-2012, 08:27 AM   #1
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Ordered my sye/driveshaft, what else do i need?

Ordered my SYE/driveshaft combo last night. Planning on ordering my upper control arms from rusty's today or tommorow. Is there anything else i need? What about my track bar? Do i need to get one of those angled track bar brackets? Or will i be ok for alittle while until i get the sye and control arms paid off. 06 4.0 6spd with a d44 rear. Has a 2"BB right now but will be changing that out soon with a zone 3".

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Old 03-19-2012, 08:43 AM   #2
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Ordered my SYE/driveshaft combo last night. Planning on ordering my upper control arms from rusty's today or tommorow. Is there anything else i need? What about my track bar? Do i need to get one of those angled track bar brackets? Or will i be ok for alittle while until i get the sye and control arms paid off. 06 4.0 6spd with a d44 rear. Has a 2"BB right now but will be changing that out soon with a zone 3".
Same setup here. Will do mine next month. Everyone keeps saying make sure to have good snap ring pliers.

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Old 03-19-2012, 08:55 AM   #3
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Those two items are pointless without proper pinion angle. To achieve proper pinion angle, you'll need to be able to rotate the housing, ie adjustable control arms.....please don't waste your money on Rustys. They are junk. You'll also need that bracket for the track bar so it doesn't bind in the mount when you rotate the housing. Do yourself a favor and get an adjustable track bar so you can have some misalignment between the axle and frame ends.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:29 AM   #4
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Haven't installed mine yet, but I think I heard once or twice that you needed brackets for the shocks or they tend to hit after you adjust the pinion angle. Maybe someone will chime in so we will both know.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:51 AM   #5
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Those two items are pointless without proper pinion angle. To achieve proper pinion angle, you'll need to be able to rotate the housing, ie adjustable control arms.....please don't waste your money on Rustys. They are junk. You'll also need that bracket for the track bar so it doesn't bind in the mount when you rotate the housing. Do yourself a favor and get an adjustable track bar so you can have some misalignment between the axle and frame ends.
Learning here so go easy on the flaming: I see that the rear adjustable track bars are recommended for a lift beginning at 4" and up. Is one really necessary for a 3" lift? Would this then eliminate the rear track bar bracket the kit comes with?
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:59 AM   #6
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Don't relate the 'need' for the bracket with the track bar at all. This is simple geometry--at 3" over stock, your axle is now shifted over to the passenger side due to the steeper track bar. So you need a longer bar. Add to that the rotated housing--take my word for it, you'll have a hell of a time getting the stock bar lined up and bolted up with the new bracket....and when you do, you'll still have issues with gas tank interference.

JKS OGS151B Adjustable Rear Track Bar, Jeep TJ Wrangler | eBay

I've installed the above bar on several Jeeps with similar setups as you have. It works and fits much nicer than the stocker. It's a great value for what you get.

The best rear track bar available is this:
Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:10 AM   #7
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Don't relate the 'need' for the bracket with the track bar at all. This is simple geometry--at 3" over stock, your axle is now shifted over to the passenger side due to the steeper track bar. So you need a longer bar. Add to that the rotated housing--take my word for it, you'll have a hell of a time getting the stock bar lined up and bolted up with the new bracket....and when you do, you'll still have issues with gas tank interference.

JKS OGS151B Adjustable Rear Track Bar, Jeep TJ Wrangler | eBay

I've installed the above bar on several Jeeps with similar setups as you have. It works and fits much nicer than the stocker. It's a great value for what you get.

The best rear track bar available is this:
Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts
Damn it, I am thread-jacking again....sorry OP. Thanks for the ebay link Imped. My next question was about the need for a bracket and I see one with the link you gave so that answered that. I had to drill holes for the rear track bar bracket that came with the Zone 3" kit, I wonder if they are the same mounting holes for this new bracket or am I going to make swiss cheese with all of these holes back there?
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:13 AM   #8
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You will want to keep the trackbar bracket regardless. A rear adjustable track bar is not required but helps.

I really have no idea why he is trying to point out you need adjustable control arms when you said you were already going to get them.

There are many control arm options. Why not tell us what type of Rusty arms your using. I would get CA's with at least one side with a rebuildable ball joint/heim joint. Your going to need the misalignment in the joints. Otherwise your just going to wear out the bushings.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:32 AM   #9
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Damn it, I am thread-jacking again....sorry OP. Thanks for the ebay link Imped. My next question was about the need for a bracket and I see one with the link you gave so that answered that. I had to drill holes for the rear track bar bracket that came with the Zone 3" kit, I wonder if they are the same mounting holes for this new bracket or am I going to make swiss cheese with all of these holes back there?
I don't know about the Zone bracket but I do know that the last rig I installed a JKS bracket on had a standard non-CV bracket from RE. The holes were very close and I made them all work. If it comes down to it, weld the new bracket on. The crush sleeve and main bolt are the most important parts for locating the bracket correctly. The others are just for strength--welding it on would replace those.
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You will want to keep the trackbar bracket regardless. A rear adjustable track bar is not required but helps.

I really have no idea why he is trying to point out you need adjustable control arms when you said you were already going to get them.

There are many control arm options. Why not tell us what type of Rusty arms your using. I would get CA's with at least one side with a rebuildable ball joint/heim joint. Your going to need the misalignment in the joints. Otherwise your just going to wear out the bushings.
The track bar isn't required and I made that clear. However, after dealing with it more than once, it's a huge PITA. Might as well do it right with no binding. As for the control arms, Rustys uses a rubber bushing on one side and a spherical joint on the other end and they are the entire reason I wouldn't recommend them.....so what's the point? I'm trying to save him the headache. Have you ever dealt with Rustys arms? They use the most piss-poor bushings and joints I've ever seen. If the OP loves to hear clunks and bangs and appreciates the fact that he can look back and watch the axle move from side to side when letting on and off the gas, them go for it.

I'm not talking out of my ass here.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:15 AM   #10
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About the track bar I was just saying it's not required. I could tell you didn't think it is required either, just wanted him to know that he can hold off till he has the money since he mentioned paying them off. Also I can't speak much more over trackbars than that as I don't have one anymore.

Rusty makes two different CA's one with rubber on both ends and the rubber on one end and a joint on the other. I am using a hand full of rustys joints on both ends of my control arms. When your buying 14 joints you kinda look at all the options. Was able to get the Rusty's $5 cheaper a piece than JJ's and did it. Though in retrospect I now think I should have just gone with JJ's. I have only had a problem with one. The threaded retainer fit loosely and wouldn't stay tight. Rusty has a lifetime warranty and replaced it no problems. There are two things I don't like about them though.
1. The ball race bushings are not solid, I don't like that design at all. It will develop slop much faster.(Note that the joints have and adjustable preload that can be tightened as they wear just another maintenance item)
2. The balls are chrome plated and on the one that I had to replace the chrome was wearing off in the center.
When they go I will probably replace them with JJ's or ballistics joints. I just got a raise so I will actually be able to afford them by then.

I'm not regurgitating information either. Also not saying if Rusty's are good or bad, just showing my experience with them so far.
Could you tell me what your experience with them is. I am just curious since I do have 14 of them.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:45 AM   #11
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I no longer run a track bar either....but when I did it was a JKS unit. I'm not a huge JKS supporter or anything but I've always been pleased with their rear track bars.

As for Rustys arms, I've got the same complaints--they are cheap. The inner race is either UHMW or delrin, which is rather hard and has no absorption properties, hence the need for a rubber bushing on the other end. Any joint that uses adjustable preload is flawed from the get-go. The rubber on the other end is also junk.....that's a flawed design from the get-go as well. I was amazed how quickly the bond with the center sleeve failed. The current owner of them bought a full set at the same time he did an axle swap and 35" tires a few years ago. Since then, he's removed them and went to rear leafs--he's much happier with leafs, so that should tell you just how bad those arms were. He still has them up front and he's currently weighing options on what to do next.

Literally $600 down the drain--can't sell them and threw the rear arms in the trash. That's where the fronts will end up as well. He can barely drive the rig on the road it's so bad....plus, when we're wheeling you can watch the axle wrap back and forth due to the slop. It's unbelievable just how poorly-made the joints and bushings are. Go with quality and cry once.....or you WILL cry twice if you truly care about the finer points. Currie JJ's will outlast your Jeep and will hardly require any maintenance.....I'm 100% confident in saying there's not a better joint out there. Run them on every end and be happy. Rustys joints were already clunking up a storm after just one season on his rig and he greased them religiously.

I run JJ's on every end of my suspension--the suspension is dead silent, very responsive, zero play, and smooth as can be. So looking back, you would've spent the extra $70 for worry-free joints right?
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:29 PM   #12
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Yea, I should have. Also note the JJ's don't come with jam nuts and that's another $2-$6 each(the LH threads cost more). Comes to over $100 in difference. I have the joints on both ends and don't notice any extra vibration, though the CA's I replaced were worn to crap already. I was looking at the faster way to do it and not having to save as much to get parts faster seemed like a good thing at the time. Now that it's done, not so much.

That is a good lesson though. The cheaper solution may look better now as you can get it now but could be a bad choice for the long term. Check out IronMan4x4fab.com. Their arms are made out of solid bar and 5.25" threaded links for 4" adjustment and use JJ's. Good for stock to 8" of lift. If you want JJ's on both ends give them a call. I was talking with them before I decided to make my own arms.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:07 PM   #13
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When you get a chance, pull both apart--a JJ and Rustys joint. Just doing that, handling them, and reassembling them will tell you all you need to know. I often wonder why others even bother making joints--Ballistic, RE, Summit Machine, Rustys, RC--they ALL fall way, way short of Currie....and the funny thing is, it's not rocket science. They all need to just do what the smart guys (Rokmen, Clayton, Poly, GenRight, Savvy) do and use the one that works.
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:20 PM   #14
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Imped- I do plan on getting control arms. I read somewhere that the rusty's stuff had been redesigned and were much stronger than what they were in the past. And its a cheaper option and I'm on a tight budget. And i am eventually getting an adjustable trackbar front and rear. Just don't have the cash to do everything at once. Just wanted to know if i can get by without getting it just yet.

TheTJRod- I was looking at the Rusty's adjustable with "factory" rubber on both ends. I would much rather get currie or rockmen arms but before i would ever drop that kind of coin on control arms i would just make my own. Which i would rather do anyway, Was just hoping to get it all in before may as im going to need to take everything out of the back of my jeep and its going to make the vibes worse(had to put a bag on concrete mix in the back when i took off my spare tire and carrier to keep the vibes down) so the rustys arms just looked like an easy cheap option. Also, do you have any of the arms that you made? Are they double adjustable or single?

Thanks for all the replys everyone!

Edit: Also i recently have recieved a free ramsey 12k winch, and a Dana HP 44 front out of a 77ish ford So many little projects, so little time...
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:12 PM   #15
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The Rusty's arms are fine and they use quality OEM-type bushings. You will like them. Mine (uppers and lowers) have held up just fine.

As for the bit about them being junk, I don't get it - tubular steel, rubber bushings at each end, a large nut, some threads, and a coat of paint. What is there to screw up, exactly? No, they're not Currie arms with Johnny Joints, but a lot of us don't want those anyway because they don't provide any benefit whatsoever over Rusty's or even OEM, assuming the OEM were the correct length for our needs.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:15 PM   #16
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How long have you been running your rusty's arms?
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:21 PM   #17
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The Rusty's arms are fine and they use quality OEM-type bushings. You will like them. Mine (uppers and lowers) have held up just fine.

As for the bit about them being junk, I don't get it - tubular steel, rubber bushings at each end, a large nut, some threads, and a coat of paint. What is there to screw up, exactly? No, they're not Currie arms with Johnny Joints, but a lot of us don't want those anyway because they don't provide any benefit whatsoever over Rusty's or even OEM, assuming the OEM were the correct length for our needs.
The point that a few are trying to make is:
If you really WHEEL your jeep, the JJ is the Best bet for longevity.
If you are an occasional wheeler or MallRat, then the rest will do you just fine. As to the "don't provide any benefit" comment, I do not agree with that comment. <-- Soap Box!!

So Feed_That_Jones, please search how you will be using your jeep and make your choice. I am one to buy stuff once so I am going SAVVY/Curry items on my jeep. It takes longer to save up the coin but I feel it will be worth it to me. Good luck.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:18 PM   #18
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I plan for the jeep to do mild trail riding/occasional DD for now,atleast until its paid off. But i also want it to flex and function properly with good reliability. And i understand i'll get what i pay for, i was just hoping they was a good deal to save me some work. I'll most likely just make my own arms before buying currie/savvy/rokmen. I'm a machinist by trade and used to do my fair share of welding/fabricating so making them shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for the replys!
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:40 PM   #19
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You may also want to consider getting a new differential cover with the fill port located higher. I currently have question posted about this very issue.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:39 AM   #20
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The Rusty's arms are fine and they use quality OEM-type bushings. You will like them. Mine (uppers and lowers) have held up just fine.

As for the bit about them being junk, I don't get it - tubular steel, rubber bushings at each end, a large nut, some threads, and a coat of paint. What is there to screw up, exactly? No, they're not Currie arms with Johnny Joints, but a lot of us don't want those anyway because they don't provide any benefit whatsoever over Rusty's or even OEM, assuming the OEM were the correct length for our needs.
Try not to make assumptions about things you know nothing about. I don't care if the OP's rig is strictly a street queen. I don't make recommendations based on that, as I firmly believe that quality parts have the same value regardless of what you do with your rig. If you really don't think that a joint can be screwed up, you'd be mistaken because Rustys does a great job of it. Putting a bushing on one end is doing nobody any favors either.
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I plan for the jeep to do mild trail riding/occasional DD for now,atleast until its paid off. But i also want it to flex and function properly with good reliability. And i understand i'll get what i pay for, i was just hoping they was a good deal to save me some work. I'll most likely just make my own arms before buying currie/savvy/rokmen. I'm a machinist by trade and used to do my fair share of welding/fabricating so making them shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for the replys!
Just know that building your own arms will save you pennies compared to buying prefab units. I've made several sets of arms using JJ's and am about to make another set (custom lengths not available off the shelf). I got my 2" x .25" wall DOM tubing for free, spent $25 on 2x 1.25-12 tube adapters for 1.5" ID tubing and $88 for 2 JJ's. That's $113 on one arm with free tubing, more like $135 per arm if I paid for the tubing (given $15/foot). So for 2 lower arms, that's $270. Add in $5 for jam nuts and that's $290. Savvy charges $299 for a set of double adjustable (RH/LH) 1.5" drilled and tapped 7075 aluminum arms with wrench flats, JJ's, jam nuts, and a pair of $9 greasable bolts. You bet your and my money that if they would make them in custom sizes (I'd need larger diameter, thicker wall tubing for longer arms) for me I'd buy them, even at $350 a pair. The bling of that aluminum, craftsmanship, and lifetime warranty are better than what I can do myself.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:17 PM   #21
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You may also want to consider getting a new differential cover with the fill port located higher. I currently have question posted about this very issue.
I don't want to Hijack but why would you want that?
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:21 PM   #22
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Try not to make assumptions about things you know nothing about. I don't care if the OP's rig is strictly a street queen. I don't make recommendations based on that, as I firmly believe that quality parts have the same value regardless of what you do with your rig. If you really don't think that a joint can be screwed up, you'd be mistaken because Rustys does a great job of it. Putting a bushing on one end is doing nobody any favors either.
Charming reply. You, and others, are surely entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine, and there is no need to be a snarky #### about it.

In all seriousness, though, I think that the need for uber-flex is often overemphasized, especially for a vehicle that is going to see trails in the non-rocky parts of the country, and especially if that vehicle is doubling as a daily driver, year-round. Arms with rubber on both ends, which is what I was suggesting, are not a bad choice for many wheelers.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:53 PM   #23
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Charming reply. You, and others, are surely entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine, and there is no need to be a snarky #### about it.

In all seriousness, though, I think that the need for uber-flex is often overemphasized, especially for a vehicle that is going to see trails in the non-rocky parts of the country, and especially if that vehicle is doubling as a daily driver, year-round. Arms with rubber on both ends, which is what I was suggesting, are not a bad choice for many wheelers.
You're still not getting the point. At no point did I mention anything about 'uber-flex', nor is that anything you'll ever see me really care about. But yes, you're right--joints have much more misalignment capability than bushings. My rig doubles as a DD throughout nearly the entire year and that's one reason I DON'T want rubber bushings.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:34 PM   #24
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Imped- I going to assume that you have JJ control arms on your rig? Is the ride/handling same as stock? And how often do the joints need rebuilt? More maintence isnt much of a factor for me because i love to tinker on the jeep, just don't want to have to be rebuilding them constantly. Also, what is misalignment? Ive read heard and read about it but it hasnt quite clicked yet.

And thanks for the info on the savvy arms, wasn't aware that they had a lifetime warranty. Thats looking like a very good option now.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:26 AM   #25
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I run JJ's at all ends of my suspension, yes. The ride and handling is better than stock--tighter, more responsive, quieter, and better dampened. Maintenance is this--give them a pump of grease ever 6 months and forget about it for the next 6 months. The rebuilding timeline isn't even worth talking about.....at 5 years, you may want to pull them out, disassemble, wipe it all down and reassemble. At 10 years, you might as well throw new bushing elements in them for formality's sake. You should be more worried about how long your motor will last....they aren't your normal "joint" that needs rebuilding every year.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:35 AM   #26
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Well hell. JJ's seem the way to go then. I would pump grease in every other oil change like i do with every other grease fitting anyway. And if they last that long before needing rebuilt then theres no need to run rubber bushings. Thanks for everyones input. Control arms got put on the back burner for a couple weeks tho. Have to get my windshield replaced now...
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:40 AM   #27
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Warning--overgreasing them will give you grief. Every oil change is way too often. The whole reason JJ's are so good is because they're so tight. The bushing halves are preloaded against the center ball so there's no room for more than a light layer of grease residue between them. If you actually try to grease them (multiple pumps) like you're used to doing on ball joints and other parts with looser tolerances, you're not pushing grease through and out--the grease stays inside and pushes the bushing halves out of the housing itself. If they don't take grease, don't put it in. They come pre-greased from Currie so don't worry about it. Also, use the greasable bolts they come with vs. the zerk in the body. It distributes the grease more evenly. I've never actually been able to pump grease through and out any of my JJ's. I give them one pump every once in a blue moon and call it a day.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:20 AM   #28
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Ok. Thanks imped, youve been a big help with all this. I said id do it every other oil change, but i understand what your saying. Maybe once every six months or so. I would order the savvy pieces today, but i gotta drop 200 on a new windshield since i spider webbed mine on sat. Maybe i can get some OT at work and i can get them sooner than later. As for my track bar im going to modify a bracket i already have to save alittle money. Havent decided on what track bar yet, might mod my stock one to wrk for now.
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Steal Your Face right off your head.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:05 PM   #29
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Hello all! Well i got my SYE/Driveshaft combo today. Went with the teraflex/tatton's because i thought the teraflex was all american made, but whats the first thing i see when i look at the housing? CHINA printed om the ball bearing. Everything else looks of good quality, just bothers me about that bearing. Think im gonna swap it out with an american made piece while im figuring out my control arm situation. Savvy is currently on backorder so i may just proceed with making my own..havent decided..

Anyway, heres a few pictures.



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2006 TJ 4.0 6speed 30/44

Same old, Rat in a drain ditch, Caught on a limb
You know better, But i know him
Like I told you, What I said
Steal Your Face right off your head.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:51 AM   #30
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Everything is made in China.....

JB Conversions would've been the better choice.

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