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Old 11-26-2011, 03:44 PM   #1
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question about control arms?

so i need new control arms and I'm thinking about going with Rokmen but i was wondering if it would affect anything if i just got the front ones now and install them and get the back ones later? i have one on the front that has a bad bushing and moves side to side and I'm pretty sure it makes a popping noise when i turn. Rokmen has a choice of short or long control arms, should i go with short since i have a 4 inch lift?

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Old 11-26-2011, 03:50 PM   #2
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Pretty sure as long as you do both sides you can do just the fronts or just the rears, and even just the uppers or just the lowers. Rokmen arms are some of the best no doubt. I suggest you call them and ask, they are very helpful. Leave a message and they will call you back. 303-907-6303

One thing I do know is that you get a better deal if you buy all 8 at once.

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Old 11-26-2011, 04:10 PM   #3
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alright thanks, yea i saw the combos they had but i can't afford to drop a grand right now so ill get em one at a time. and disregard my question about short or long arms, i was looking at the wrong thing on their website when i posted this question
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:24 PM   #4
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Yes, always replace arms in pairs. That way there is no difference that might throw off alignment.
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:40 PM   #5
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I have heard that one of the really good brand of short arms does not go shorter than the stock rear upper control arms, but not sure which brand it is. I read somewhere where this may be a problem, but do not know why.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doclouie View Post
I have heard that one of the really good brand of short arms does not go shorter than the stock rear upper control arms, but not sure which brand it is. I read somewhere where this may be a problem, but do not know why.
there shouldn't be any reason at adjust the rear uppers shorter than stock.

what you're probably thinking of was the Currie upper rear arms having problems not extending far enough out. you needed their lowers, to adjust those shorter than stock, so you could set pinion angle. i've heard currie has since made their threaded section longer so you can adjust them longer than stock, like many other manufacturers.

you may also be thinking of Rokmen lowers, which don't adjust shorter than stock...which can also be an issue when trying to center larger tires in the rear wheelwell at full bump.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:50 PM   #7
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I just replaced my stock front uppers with some adjustable HD ones after having bent them. Everything's perfect, just a pain to take the stocks out after having bent them so bad. I too am running a 4" lift. I adjusted the length to 15 1/4" from hole to hole as i read to do so from other posts.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:52 PM   #8
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would it be alright to replace just the front and rear lowers for now?
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:27 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by DgonzTj View Post
I too am running a 4" lift. I adjusted the length to 15 1/4" from hole to hole as i read to do so from other posts.
don't base your length adjustment based on what other people do....use it as a guide only. on the front uppers, theres little motivation to adjust them longer than stock (15").

the way you determine length is by using caster and pinion angle. you need to lengthen the lowers as necessary to maintain your desired balance between caster and pinion angle. on 4" of lift with 33s, start at 16" LCA's and lengthen the lowers till you hit ~5° caster for 35s or ~6° for 33s, and check pinion angle from there.

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would it be alright to replace just the front and rear lowers for now?
absolutely, keep the rears at stock length (15.75") to avoid changing pinion angle, and set the front lowers as described above to improve caster. remember, you'll need to reset toe after adjusting caster.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:03 AM   #10
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I bought my jeep with the lift already and it had the lowers changed along with the kit so all that was stock were the upper arms front and back and since i bent the fronts i went ahead and got some beefy adjustables... as for the length i guess you're right, i was under the jeep by the time i figured i should read online about how other ppl have their's set at with a 4" lift as well.
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:30 PM   #11
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I too can't afford to get all 8 Ca's at once. Put front lowers on bout 6 months ago with no adverse affects. Couldn't believe the improvement just the front lowers made! UnlimitedLJ04 knows what he's talking about.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:50 PM   #12
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I started with lowers also. Lets you adjust pinion and caster easier than uppers. Before I did uppers I did the track bars because the lift totally whacks out the body alignment. That's why from the rear you look like you're hanging a right even when you're not. And you wonder why the steering is so crappy...
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
I started with lowers also. Lets you adjust pinion and caster easier than uppers. Before I did uppers I did the track bars because the lift totally whacks out the body alignment. That's why from the rear you look like you're hanging a right even when you're not. And you wonder why the steering is so crappy...
yea, i have the same problem. looks like you pulled it in sideways or something lol when i make a sharp left turn the jeep emblem on the steering wheel is completely vertical, it's really sloppy steering.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 View Post
don't base your length adjustment based on what other people do....use it as a guide only. on the front uppers, theres little motivation to adjust them longer than stock (15").

the way you determine length is by using caster and pinion angle. you need to lengthen the lowers as necessary to maintain your desired balance between caster and pinion angle. on 4" of lift with 33s, start at 16" LCA's and lengthen the lowers till you hit ~5° caster for 35s or ~6° for 33s, and check pinion angle from there.


absolutely, keep the rears at stock length (15.75") to avoid changing pinion angle, and set the front lowers as described above to improve caster. remember, you'll need to reset toe after adjusting caster.
wow, totally over my head lol. noob question here, how do you set the caster and toe in?
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudslinger5000 View Post
wow, totally over my head lol. noob question here, how do you set the caster and toe in?
Toe-in:

Basic Jeep Front End Alignment
TJ Toe-in Alignment - 1

Good read on alignment in general:

The "End-all, Be-all TJ Alignment thread" (LONG read) - JeepForum.com

As for caster, the above JeepForum thread should give you what info you need; typically, most people give priority to their pinion angle.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudslinger5000 View Post
how do you set the caster and toe in?
I take a guess with the control arm lengths, then take the Jeep to Firestone and take advantage of my Lifetime alignment.

I adjust the components as necessary and go back again till the front end is perfectly where I want it. I think I've been in 8 times or so over the past few years...and the Jeep drives awesome, 2 fingers on the wheel @ ~75 mph, no darty-ness, no wandering, no wobbles, actually drives better than stock in many respects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geiman View Post
Toe-in:

Basic Jeep Front End Alignment
TJ Toe-in Alignment - 1

Good read on alignment in general:

The "End-all, Be-all TJ Alignment thread" (LONG read) - JeepForum.com

As for caster, the above JeepForum thread should give you what info you need; typically, most people give priority to their pinion angle.
x2...read all those links. I've read flatlander's thread at least half a dozen times.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:14 PM   #17
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alright, thanks guys!
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:17 PM   #18
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ok, another question here. i was looking around at control arms and i found some on quadratec by warrior products. they are not adjustable, however it says they are made for a 4" inch lift, i wonder if they are already setup to have the right pinion angle? here's the link Warrior Products 800027 - Warrior Products Lower Control Arms for 84-06 Jeep® Cherokee XJ, Wrangler TJ & Unlimited with 4" Lift - Quadratec
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:23 PM   #19
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If you're going to spend money on aftermarket control arms, get adjustables. If you need to wait until you can save money then do so. It's a waste of money to buy arms that aren't adjustable.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudslinger5000 View Post
ok, another question here. i was looking around at control arms and i found some on quadratec by warrior products. they are not adjustable, however it says they are made for a 4" inch lift, i wonder if they are already setup to have the right pinion angle? here's the link Warrior Products 800027 - Warrior Products Lower Control Arms for 84-06 Jeep® Cherokee XJ, Wrangler TJ & Unlimited with 4" Lift - Quadratec
I thought you were looking for a good set of control arms, not a set of paper weights?
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:56 PM   #21
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yea, i dont know what i was thinking lol. guess i was trying to save some $
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:43 PM   #22
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My caster is off by .5 degree and it shakes on the highway at about 65mph. I have a 3" zone lift. How much of a difference from stock of LCA's will i need to correct this problem. I still have a wobble too and i'm hoping this can help fix it along with a new adjustable track bar... hopefully
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:21 AM   #23
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When you installed your lift did you put new tires on as well? Also, did you properly set your toe-in? Just making sure your wobble isn't coming from something like that before trying to chase down minor caster issues.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:59 PM   #24
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They are the same tires and wheels as before the lift. They were balanced after and the toe-in was properly set. I also moved the track bar 3/4" to the driver side. I don't know if it may be moving around in the hole i drilled causing it to wobble. I also installed the new bolts for the LCA's that came with the lift but i can't find the problem.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:00 PM   #25
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The trac bar hole/bolt can definitely cause the wobbling. I'd double check to make sure there is NO play there.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:20 PM   #26
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I will check tomorrow because I've had a feeling that it is a problem and I want to get an adjustable trac bar to put it back in the factory mount hole. If that is the case, should i still get LCAs to fix the caster to cease the shakes on the highway? its very irritating for my hour drive to and from school.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:57 PM   #27
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Well I would get adjustable control arms all the way around, but that's just me. If you're only looking to buy what's needed, I'd fix the trac bar first and see what that fixes. Any play there can easily cause vibes.
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:14 PM   #28
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The trac bar hole is a mess.. its my problem, it is now worse than before for being tampered with.. any suggestions on an adjustable trac bar for a 3" lift?
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:23 PM   #29
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The trac bar hole is a mess.. its my problem, it is now worse than before for being tampered with.. any suggestions on an adjustable trac bar for a 3" lift?
why would an adjustable track bar fix your messed up hole?

my suggestion is going to be two fold - weld on an 1/8" thick piece of plate over the track bar hole.

drill a hole in the plate, and use a grinder to shape it to fit. once it fits, weld it on.



Now, drill a 1/2" hole through it and bolt up a Currie TJS model track bar you buy from Gerald at Savvy Off-Road. The Currie TJS model uses a 1/2" bolt on the axle instead of the factory 10mm bolt, and a 5/8" bolt on the frame side, instead of the factory tapered tie-rod end. Drilling these holes out larger will eliminate the wallowed shape. You will need 2" front bumpstop extensions with this track bar & the stock diff cover, otherwise you'll have interference. The stock diff cover is the best clearance profile available, and with 3" of lift that is still a good combination.
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:52 PM   #30
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The adjustable will allow me to put the trace bar into the factory drilled hole as opposed to the hole i drilled into the mount

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