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Old 01-26-2012, 08:44 PM   #1
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rear trackbar/bracket with SYE--- enlighten me please!

OK... I am getting bits and pieces from searching the web and need some definitive info on the differences between a 'standard' rear trackbar bracket and the SYE trackbar bracket and what exactly is needed to run a rear trackbar properly and efficiently with a 4" lift.

I am just about done collecting parts for my 4" lift, then I start to find out (actually reading up on it thru web searches) that when I install the SYE/DS... the standard rear trackbar bracket will not work... and I need a certain bracket that is made for the SYE.

If I am to understand this... when you rotate the axle for pinion correction after the SYE, the 'standard' rear trackbar bracket will bind up with a stock trackbar.

So...

Do I need to buy this 'SYE correct' bracket to run a stock trackbar?

or...

Do I need to run an adjustable rear trackbar and 'standard' bracket?

or...

Do I need to run an adjustable rear trackbar AND SYE correct bracket?



I can't believe with all my research, this is just now coming to light.

Thanks in advance....

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Old 01-27-2012, 06:13 AM   #2
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nobody? Anybody have some insight? I don't want to waste money buying the wrong junk....

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RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:21 AM   #3
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I am sure someone (Jerry Bransford) will pop on here sometime soon and get you a good answer.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:22 AM   #4
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Don't quote me on this...but from what I understood, it's not an issue with the SYE but rather, the trackbar itself. Using a standard bracket with stock trackbar is fine. Using an adjustable without a bracket will bind up. Using an adjustable with a bracket may bind up.

Again, don't quote me on that...but I've never heard anything about needing a different bracket when switching to an SYE/CV driveshaft and adjustable control arms.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garlandxj View Post
I am sure someone (Jerry Bransford) will pop on here sometime soon and get you a good answer.
UnlimitedLJ04 would probably be the best person to ask in regards to this topic.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:27 AM   #6
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Thanks s3nt3ncd and Garland.... maybe its just too early in the morning to expect answers.

I did a search of the forum and found a few tidbits of info, but nothing concrete. I'm sure patience will payoff....

I found UnlimitedLJ04's trackbar thread with reinforcements.... and the fabbed bracket.... hope to hear from both him and Jerry.,
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4" Lift, 4.56's, 33" Duratracs on M/T Classics
RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
NOPE! ... and NEVER will be...
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:47 AM   #7
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My 2004 has a 4" Skycrapper lift on it with no SYE (pause for grumbles, sneers and dirty looks from the peanut gallery) and I have the stock track bar on it.

That being said - The current setup is how I got the Jeep. My plans include 8 adjustable control arms. (upper and lower both axles ) Adjustable track bar, SYE and Drive shaft, new springs. HMMM mabey since I will be throwing this much at it I will include a passenger ejection seat, slide out full bar, fold up 42" TV and automatic deploying chairs.

Find out what you need to do it cheap, right and exactly how you want it. Then look at your wallet. If all you can afford right now is cheap - don't do it. Put money aside and save until you can do it right. If you can afford to do what you want - do it!!!! Go nuts (Then send some money my way so I can do it right.)
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:34 AM   #8
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I hear ya.... I have been collecting parts since Sep '11' to complete my lift.

I have 8 adjustable CA's
SYE and DC shaft
extended brakelines
shocks
4" coils
Dana 30 open w/ 4.56's
Dana 35 LSD / 4.56's
rear shock relocators

(trackbars/brakcets are pending... outcome of this thread is determining factor)

Still have to fab up my new discos for the front and solid endlinks for the rear....

All this is in the garage complete and awaiting rims and tires... and of course, the trackbar issues that started this thread....
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4" Lift, 4.56's, 33" Duratracs on M/T Classics
RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
NOPE! ... and NEVER will be...
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:43 AM   #9
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With a fixed output yoke, the pinion angle needs to be inline with the drive shaft so that the axle-end u-joint is seeing 0 degrees or very close to it. This requires the axle housing to be rotated up. Imagine what's happening with the track bar bracket when you do this....it's rotating with the axle and is placing a bind on the bushings. The bracket just relocates the mount to be more inline with the frame bracket so that the bushings aren't being torqued. The best option is to go with a Currie track bar, which uses a JJ at the axle end. Combine that with the bracket and the JJ misalignment will easily take up any difference in the angle. Also, if you've got the track bar bolted up and need to make adjustments to the pinion angle, make sure the jam nut on the track bar is loose so that the two ends can move separately. Once you've got the axle rotated correctly, then tighten down the track bar jam nut.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:51 AM   #10
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when you install a SYE, you need to align the pinion angle. this requires adjustable uppers, with lowers highly recommended.

several things happen when you rotate the housing to point the rear pinion at the t-case with the double cardan shaft.
1. the rotation causes the fixed track bar mount to rotate back, toward the gas tank. meaning it's no longer parallel with the frame mount. because of this non-parallelism, you can't get the stock bar installed unless you either stress the heck out of the bushings (not good) or cut the bar, rotate it, and then sleeve it (requires welding).
2. lengthening the uppers to align the pinion actually lengthens the wheelbase slightly. this means the bumpstops become slightly misaligned, and the track bar is pushed toward the gas tank mount. the rear track bar bracket and/or diff cover can also be pushed into the gas tank skid during suspension travel.
Examples:


3. that lengthening of the wheelbase will actually push the tire back in the wheelwell, and you get the tires contacting the rear of the wheelwell during travel...at the steel of the fender. this isn't a flare issue...its a steel vs rubber issue.
Example:

from: No Lift Tj Part2 Rear Stuffed Photo 2

If you've ever taken off your rear flares, you can see how much they cut away based on the holes...

Ok. So how do we fix these problems? Well, remember the adjustable lower control arms were highly recommended? One reason for that is so you can SHORTEN the lowers in the rear as you extend the uppers...to keep those clearance issues from arising.

So where the CV style track bar bracket fits into all this? Well, you'll notice these angled brackets do two things - they try to put that parallelism back in place with the rotated housing, most are setup for a 4" lift. They also push the track bar forward on the axle mount to avoid problems #2 and #3. The issue with them is they don't have any adjustability if you need it...it's fixed, so you may still have an anti-parallelism problem.

The caviate to the adjustable lowers for the rear is they need to be able adjust shorter than stock. Many aftermarket companies arms do NOT, including the Rokmen's I run. You can cut some thread off and hope you don't mess it up, or keep them at stock length and hope for the best. On my LJ, I hoped for the best because the housing rotation required to align the pinion on the long wheelbase wasn't that severe...and the issues are very close (if you've poked through my build thread you've seen them).

You need a relocation bracket with a lift (or to fabricate/weld-on a taller, open top bracket). Thats due to the interference adjustable track bars create with the weak stock closed top bracket.


The replacement/relocation bracket doesn't need to be a CV style - however you do need to account for the anti-parallelism problem. That is easily done with an adjustable rear track bar, preferably one with a flex joint on at least one end. The new Currie rear track bar (available through Savvy) is supposed to address gas tank frame mount interference issues mentioned in #2...although I haven't seen full bump pictures of it myself, so I'm still skeptical...but at least this is the first time I've ever heard a company agree the problem exists!

So in other words, either a CV or non-CV style bracket will work IF you place the housing correctly in the wheelwell with adjustable uppers AND lowers, and you run a track bar that accounts for the potential misalignment.

Personally, on a SWB TJ with a CV shaft, I'd probably cut the rear track bar mount off....then reinforce & move the uppers forward a bit, and weld on a 1/4" wall open top track bar mount, while running the new Currie track bar. Or better yet, triangulate the rear uppers and toss the stock track bar aside altogether. I've been considering fabbing a new axle side rear track bar mount for my Jeep for a long time...maybe next year.
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:17 PM   #11
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UnlimitedLJ04 and Imped,

I appreciate the details you both have provided. As I listed above, I do have 8 adjustable CA's to be able to rotate the axle and keep the position correct in the wheelwell.

I understand the importance of keeping the position correct to prevent interference issues as well. The biggest concern you both answered for me.

Being that I will be rotating in a push/pull fashion with uppers and lowers ( I will be sure to make certain that the lowers will pull enough) my decision is still up in the air...

I read this on the RE 1602 bracket.... (I know JKS makes a similar bracket, price comparable)

This bracket is a must for lifted TJ Wranglers using the stock rear track bar. Special angled design allows bind free action of track bar when rear pinion is angled up for using a CV rear drive shaft. Works with lifts from 3" - 4.5".



If I can use the above bracket for now.... I can utilize my OEM trackbar for now.... thoughts?

I have not decided on a trackbar yet, but will be looking closely at Currie first, then others to compare. Money is the issue, time is not a determining factor... yet.

I truly appreciate your input... both of you have shed much light on a subject that just came up for me yesterday as I moved into the next stage of collecting parts. I was very surprised at not finding much info in the search on this topic.

UnlimitedLJ04.... During my search, I found the pics of your reinforcement bracket for the rear trackbar mount... genius, yet simplistic.... I will be fabbing one up for mine as well. I value your input a lot, from what I read in your posts on this topic and correct bumpstop height ( and many others)... you have a lot of knowledge experience that you continue to share. Thanks.

For the front, I will be using a OEM trackbar with the relocation reinforcement as well.... for now.

Thanks again to both Imped and UnlimitedLJ04 for AWESOME input and guidance.
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4" Lift, 4.56's, 33" Duratracs on M/T Classics
RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
NOPE! ... and NEVER will be...
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #12
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Seeing as you have most of what you need to "do it right", I would not see a large issue with using that bracket as a temporary measure until you get an adjustable track bar. You may still have issues with clearance and "parallelism" (Is that really a word or has someone seen too many episodes of Eureka).
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnDz TJ View Post
If I can use the above bracket for now.... I can utilize my OEM trackbar for now.... thoughts?

I have not decided on a trackbar yet, but will be looking closely at Currie first, then others to compare. Money is the issue, time is not a determining factor... yet.
You probably could, but ask ....if money is the issue and time is not, then why not save your money for a longer period of time until you can afford to buy what you want?

You can accumulate parts and not install them, waiting till weather & parts cooperate. When I bought my OME lift, it and several other components lived under, behind and around the futon in the living room for several months.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:59 PM   #14
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I use a Savvy bracket with their adjustable track bar , it does not come close to rubbing or hitting anything
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 View Post
You probably could, but ask ....if money is the issue and time is not, then why not save your money for a longer period of time until you can afford to buy what you want?

You can accumulate parts and not install them, waiting till weather & parts cooperate. When I bought my OME lift, it and several other components lived under, behind and around the futon in the living room for several months.
You make a good point... I'm not in a hurry. I may just hold off for now....still have to get new rims and tires, too.

My goal is to be lifted and ready for The Rubicon by September... if all works out and things fall into place.. life will be good.

I now have options... thanks again for all the info.
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4" Lift, 4.56's, 33" Duratracs on M/T Classics
RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
NOPE! ... and NEVER will be...
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:26 PM   #16
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Sigh, I am experiencing this thread right now . I thought I had researched the process of installing an SYE and perhaps due to my 2" short lift, did not consider the trackbar clearance and binding issue after clocking the differential upwards to correct pinion angle.

Perhaps, if I did not have a tummy tuck - the angles would not significantly impact my rear trackbar... but I just ordered the dual JJ Currie trackbar, which should resolve my concerns .
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:30 AM   #17
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Man, IslandTJ..... you resurrected my post!!! lol!!! I tried to help you out since I went thru the same thing ( as you pulled my thread up)

I think you may have to look into the 2-2.5" trackbar bracket and see what clearances you have.... the Adj. trackbar has to take up some of the misalignment issues and the bracket combined with that should be good.

The only thing that concerns me is the interference with the tank, since you can only get a straight or standard rear bracket... this may require shortening your wheelbase a bit with adj. lowers and pulling them in a bit. The only way to tell is put it all together, then pull your springs and do a full cycle suspension check....
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4" Lift, 4.56's, 33" Duratracs on M/T Classics
RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
NOPE! ... and NEVER will be...
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:39 AM   #18
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My savvy rear track bar/bracket, the bracket is curved
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:43 AM   #19
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Man, IslandTJ..... you resurrected my post!!! lol!!! I tried to help you out since I went thru the same thing ( as you pulled my thread up)

I think you may have to look into the 2-2.5" trackbar bracket and see what clearances you have.... the Adj. trackbar has to take up some of the misalignment issues and the bracket combined with that should be good.

The only thing that concerns me is the interference with the tank, since you can only get a straight or standard rear bracket... this may require shortening your wheelbase a bit with adj. lowers and pulling them in a bit. The only way to tell is put it all together, then pull your springs and do a full cycle suspension check....
Yeah, when I came across your thread TnDz TJ, I was like, "This is exactly my situation!" I bought an OME trackbar bracket that was made made to compliment their 2" OME TJ lift, which should work for me. I also ordered the Currie rear trackbar from Savvy which should address the clearance issues. I did not purchase rear lower control arms, as I assumed with a 2" BDS suspension lift, the impacted angles and axle movement would be negligible... Hopefully after install, this is true.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:49 AM   #20
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I am also looing at the Savvy adjustable with bracket but its like $300 with the 10% discount. I also hope that my 3" lift will not require lowers as it might still be negligible.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:02 AM   #21
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I am also looing at the Savvy adjustable with bracket but its like $300 with the 10% discount. I also hope that my 3" lift will not require lowers as it might still be negligible.
Tell me about it siafu. I held off doing an SYE due to the expense involved. I only have a 2" lift so I initially got away with a MML.

When I upgraded my transfer case skid to an UCF tummy tucker, I decided to finally invest in a SYE kit. I saved up enough to get a Teraflex SYE, Tatton's DC driveshaft and Rokmen adjustable rear upper control arms. Based on prior research, I thought this would be enough, since these specific components are usually mentioned in many SYE related threads. It was after I installed the SYE and driveshaft, when I looked at what it would take to adjust my pinion upward to where it would be parallel to the driveshaft. That's when I saw the potential issues (binding and clearance) that would come to play if I elected to stick with the stock fixed rear trackbar .

Now I'm overbudget in my SYE project. But when it's all over and done with - I'm going wheeling!
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandTJ

Yeah, when I came across your thread TnDz TJ, I was like, "This is exactly my situation!" I bought an OME trackbar bracket that was made made to compliment their 2" OME TJ lift, which should work for me. I also ordered the Currie rear trackbar from Savvy which should address the clearance issues. I did not purchase rear lower control arms, as I assumed with a 2" BDS suspension lift, the impacted angles and axle movement would be negligible... Hopefully after install, this is true.
Sounds like you got it worked out. And I agree that the amount of rotation is minimal and you should a alright, but check full cycle of the suspension to be sure.
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4" Lift, 4.56's, 33" Duratracs on M/T Classics
RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
NOPE! ... and NEVER will be...
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:55 PM   #23
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Well I'm looking to lift my jeep with the RE 4.5 super flex, should I be looking into this problem as well and getting an adjustable rear track bar with the bracket? I'm new to all this, lifting a truck seemed to be much easier.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rwill8751
Well I'm looking to lift my jeep with the RE 4.5 super flex, should I be looking into this problem as well and getting an adjustable rear track bar with the bracket? I'm new to all this, lifting a truck seemed to be much easier.
You will definitely need the SYE. I run a 4" lift, stock trackbar with SYE and the angled rear cv bracket from RE. RE1602. The RE1602 let's you run a stock trackbar or adj one. The straight bracket can only run the adj trackbar with a JJ

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4" Lift, 4.56's, 33" Duratracs on M/T Classics
RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
NOPE! ... and NEVER will be...
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