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Old 05-11-2009, 08:14 PM   #1
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Wink Reverse Milk-Jug Trick

For this trick,
all you need to do is get side-swiped by on coming traffic that is turning into the same lane as you are.
It's actually a pretty funny story, I'll get into it more later on if any are interested. But for now, here's the deal:

On Friday, I was obviously in a minor collision on the front left side.
Not much happened to the TJ at all. It just bent the Jug all the way around and scuffed the Fender Flare a little. That part isn't a really big deal. I have an old bumper that I can take a Jug off of, and touch-up paint will handle the rest.

However,
when I got hit, it did knock me to the right quite a bit.
So far, the front end seems to be handling alright. There seems to be a slight pull to the right, but I might be over thinking things. That could just be from the crown of the road, but I'm not sure. Would you guys mind taking a look at the pictures below and tell me if you see anything out of wack? (Other than the Jug and Fender...LOL)
Also, any other suggestions of things that I should check would be appreciated too.


















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Old 05-11-2009, 08:24 PM   #2
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The pics are too close and not well lit enough. Back off just enough so you can get a few pics of the entire front-end using the flash and especially one that shows just enough to see the entire track bar. My bet is the track bar got bent but once bent, it can't be straightened and retain its strength so if it is bent, I'd replace it.

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Old 05-11-2009, 08:33 PM   #3
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hard to see from here but drag link adjuster looks weird or maybe bent. look at your upper and lower links aswell.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:34 PM   #4
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Sorry to hear about your accident, I noticed you have a redrilled tracbar don't know if you did it or not but I would watch that thing closely it dosen't look like you have enough edge distance for that bolt in that picture. That thing might fail on you with it being like that.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:44 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear about the misfortune, But that's what ya get for driving around with your thumb up at everybody. LOL. How can somebody NOT see that jeep. It's white as snow and awesome looking. They were probobly blinded.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:05 PM   #6
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Here's another pic Jerry.

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Old 05-11-2009, 09:12 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by BARKDOG67 View Post
Sorry to hear about your accident, I noticed you have a redrilled tracbar don't know if you did it or not but I would watch that thing closely it dosen't look like you have enough edge distance for that bolt in that picture. That thing might fail on you with it being like that.
No, I didn't re-drill it.
Any idea why the previous owner would do that?
Just to clarify, what your saying is that there's not enough material between the hole and the edge right?
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:14 PM   #8
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The one thing I see is the tie rod is rubbing the drag link where it connects to the pitman arm. Its not from the accident though (is it?). It look like its been rubbing for some time. This will only happen when you're wheeling.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by daanbc View Post
Sorry to hear about the misfortune, But that's what ya get for driving around with your thumb up at everybody. LOL. How can somebody NOT see that jeep. It's white as snow and awesome looking. They were probably blinded.

Yeah, this damn cast is sure getting old quick man.
Just 3 and a half more weeks to go though, then I can see how it works.

In all fairness,
neither one of us saw the other until it was too late.
Both of us hopped out of our vehicles very quickly and angered, ready to throw blows.
Then we realized that we new each other. LOL
Being that, and how everything worked out, we just decided to laugh it off and take care of our own repairs.
But I'll tell ya man, he really got the raw end of things.
Most of his quarter panel was caved in, while this is all that happened to mine.
Ah well, both of us should've been paying better attention to things.
In my defense, I DO have a couple more obstructions though.
I have Limo tint all the way around,
and that damn KC Windshield light gets in the way quite a bit too.
That's a Good warning for YOU Dave, now that you just put those lights on.
If the back end of the housing is HUGE like on the KC Daylighters,
it can sometime be a bitch to see around in heavy traffic.
Be careful.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:43 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 4point View Post
The one thing I see is the tie rod is rubbing the drag link where it connects to the pitman arm. Its not from the accident though (is it?). It look like its been rubbing for some time. This will only happen when you're wheeling.
Are you talking about this gouge?
If so, no it's not from the accident. It was there when I bought it.
However, it IS pretty deep. How worried should I be?
Is there any way to prevent this?
Also, doesn't the Tie Rod itself look bent?
Or is it supposed to be like that?

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Old 05-11-2009, 10:05 PM   #11
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It looks like the previous owner did not buy an adjustable trac-bar he just redrilled the bracket to line up the axle. I have heard of people doing this and was going to do it my self but decided to buy an adjustable track bar instead so that it would not weaken the bracket by drilling another huge hole in it. Yours looks like it was drilled pretty close to the edge of the bracket and there isn't much edge distance witch means its going to crack or break eventually I would keep an eye on that thing if I were you and buy an adjustable trac-bar and remount it in the original hole in the bracket.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

Yeah, this damn cast is sure getting old quick man.
Just 3 and a half more weeks to go though, then I can see how it works.

In all fairness,
neither one of us saw the other until it was too late.
Both of us hopped out of our vehicles very quickly and angered, ready to throw blows.
Then we realized that we new each other. LOL
Being that, and how everything worked out, we just decided to laugh it off and take care of our own repairs.
But I'll tell ya man, he really got the raw end of things.
Most of his quarter panel was caved in, while this is all that happened to mine.
Ah well, both of us should've been paying better attention to things.
In my defense, I DO have a couple more obstructions though.
I have Limo tint all the way around,
and that damn KC Windshield light gets in the way quite a bit too.
That's a Good warning for YOU Dave, now that you just put those lights on.
If the back end of the housing is HUGE like on the KC Daylighters,
it can sometime be a bitch to see around in heavy traffic.
Be careful.
Yeah my limo tint does hinder my sight at certain times of the day. Sometimes its like a mirror. I don't have any problems with my lights though. Maybe because of my hieght. I'd listen to what the fella's are saying about that drilled hole. I'm not much of an off-roader but i certainly would not trust that hole drilled so close to the edge like that. Hope all's well with your thumb. Ya gonna put that blue tooth in?
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post
Are you talking about this gouge?
If so, no it's not from the accident. It was there when I bought it.
However, it IS pretty deep. How worried should I be?
Is there any way to prevent this?
Also, doesn't the Tie Rod itself look bent?
Or is it supposed to be like that?

I can't tell if your tie rod is bent, it looks OK to me. But yes that notch in it can't be good. There is a ton of stress put on that thing when you go wheeling. It looks like a good excuse to get an HD steering system.

Also you have steering geometry issues. It looks like you have a drop pitman arm and the stock TB. You want the draglink and the TB to be parallel. You can do one of two things there, 1. Buy a factory pitman arm. or 2. Buy a adjustable TB with a frame side drop bracket. My had a DPA like yours and I decided (opt. 2) to keep it because it moves the geometry closer to factory spec.
In the pic below you want the two lines as close to parallel as you can possibly get them.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:31 PM   #14
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so you were riding around blasting your favorite Zebra album and you got all exited on the high notes and blasted right into the dude. Sorry couldnt resist. That sucks about the Jeep, hope everything turns out fine.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:38 AM   #15
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I can't tell if your tie rod is bent, it looks OK to me. But yes that notch in it can't be good. There is a ton of stress put on that thing when you go wheeling. It looks like a good excuse to get an HD steering system.

Also you have steering geometry issues. It looks like you have a drop pitman arm and the stock TB. You want the draglink and the TB to be parallel. You can do one of two things there, 1. Buy a factory pitman arm. or 2. Buy a adjustable TB with a frame side drop bracket. My had a DPA like yours and I decided (opt. 2) to keep it because it moves the geometry closer to factory spec.
In the pic below you want the two lines as close to parallel as you can possibly get them.
Attachment 8277
So what will stop the rubbing on the Tie Rod?
I don't beat the hell out of this thing,
but I do enjoy weekends in the woods and making my own path with it.
Do you think it's an immediate concern?

It looks like adjustable Track Bars start around $150.
I'm not sure where to find one with a drop bracket.
What brands do you all recommend? Links would be great.
It looks like it's gonna be an expensive fix either way.
Yet none of this was caused by the accident, just the previous owner trying to cut corners, it seems.
Is any of this in desperate need right now?
I'm really low on cash because I'm trying to pay some medical bills.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by BARKDOG67 View Post
It looks like the previous owner did not buy an adjustable trac-bar he just redrilled the bracket to line up the axle. I have heard of people doing this and was going to do it my self but decided to buy an adjustable track bar instead so that it would not weaken the bracket by drilling another huge hole in it. Yours looks like it was drilled pretty close to the edge of the bracket and there isn't much edge distance witch means its going to crack or break eventually I would keep an eye on that thing if I were you and buy an adjustable trac-bar and remount it in the original hole in the bracket.
Thanks for pointing that out man.
It IS to close to the edge.
I really wish the previous owner would've just done stuff right.
I will definitely be keeping an eye on it now.
I just hope that I'm not putting to much stress on it with the way that I use it.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:59 AM   #17
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Yeah my limo tint does hinder my sight at certain times of the day. Sometimes its like a mirror. I don't have any problems with my lights though. Maybe because of my hieght. I'd listen to what the fella's are saying about that drilled hole. I'm not much of an off-roader but i certainly would not trust that hole drilled so close to the edge like that. Hope all's well with your thumb. Ya gonna put that blue tooth in?
Yeah, that hole isn't safe at all.
I'm definitely going to have to do something about that either way.
The thumb is still attached, that's about all I can say right now, but thanks.
As for the Bluetooth, yeah everythings here, but there's no way I can install that without the use of my right hand.
I was cursing up a storm today just trying to pry that Milk Jug out,
and put the other one on.
It's funny how much we take for granted.
(I.E. - The use of both hands..lol)

Speaking of the Milk Jugs:
The one that I removed was held in by 4 Torx Screws.
The one that I took off the spare bumper and replaced it with,
only is held in by 3.
Everything fit just like it should, it's just lacking 1 hole.
Maybe it came off of a different year? (older or newer I wonder)
Maybe one of the two is aftermarket??
I dunno.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:10 AM   #18
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so you were riding around blasting your favorite Zebra album and you got all exited on the high notes and blasted right into the dude. Sorry couldnt resist. That sucks about the Jeep, hope everything turns out fine.
Zebra...., oh jeeeze.
I was watching Jimmy Fallen tonight, and Randy Jackson was on there.
I guess he used to play bass for your favorite band Journey.
NOW I SEE THE CONNECTION.
I just googled Zebra and it turns out that he used to play for them too.
Are you some kind of Randy Jackson Groupie or something????
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:15 AM   #19
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Thanks to everyone for pointing all of this out to me.
I'm gonna have to drain my wallet once again fixing all of this,
but I can't until I get past the medical bills.
Does anyone see anything that might have been damaged in the accident, and needs immediate attention?
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:58 AM   #20
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Zebra...., oh jeeeze.
I was watching Jimmy Fallen tonight, and Randy Jackson was on there.
I guess he used to play bass for your favorite band Journey.
NOW I SEE THE CONNECTION.
I just googled Zebra and it turns out that he used to play for them too.
Are you some kind of Randy Jackson Groupie or something????
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:33 AM   #21
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I just purchased a adjustable trac-bar from rough country and it was only $99.00 dollars I have also seen a couple over on the jeep forum classifieds for around $80.00 if you want to look over there. I would not offroad that thing until you got it fixed.
I'm curious to see what he did with the back track bar also go snap some pictures of it. The back can be fixed with a simple relocation bracket if you don't want to buy an adjustable one but I would make sure he didn't cut any corners there also.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:20 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post
Thanks to everyone for pointing all of this out to me.
I'm gonna have to drain my wallet once again fixing all of this,
but I can't until I get past the medical bills.
Does anyone see anything that might have been damaged in the accident, and needs immediate attention?



Your steering, etc., looks in better condition than mine (and I haven't been in an accident). I doubt you have any IMMEDIATE threat(s) to your Jeepin' safety. Just things to keep a watch on (what has been pointed out to you already), and not let them go for too long.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:09 AM   #23
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I'm not sure where to find one with a drop bracket.
Better, just replace that dropped Pitman arm with the OE Pitman arm and you bump steer problem will be cured. Nearly any 4x4 shop should have a few used OE Pitman arms off a TJ laying around they'll give you or that you can buy cheaply.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:51 PM   #24
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I just purchased a adjustable trac-bar from rough country and it was only $99.00 dollars I have also seen a couple over on the jeep forum classifieds for around $80.00 if you want to look over there. I would not offroad that thing until you got it fixed.
I'm curious to see what he did with the back track bar also go snap some pictures of it. The back can be fixed with a simple relocation bracket if you don't want to buy an adjustable one but I would make sure he didn't cut any corners there also.
Thanks.
Are the Rough Country track bars a pretty good brand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MouthfulOfGrass View Post
Your steering, etc., looks in better condition than mine (and I haven't been in an accident). I doubt you have any IMMEDIATE threat(s) to your Jeepin' safety. Just things to keep a watch on (what has been pointed out to you already), and not let them go for too long.
Good to hear, thanks.
I'll definitely be watching everything very closely.
I hope everything can hold up for a few months, so I can get the med bills paid off first.

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Better, just replace that dropped Pitman arm with the OE Pitman arm and you bump steer problem will be cured. Nearly any 4x4 shop should have a few used OE Pitman arms off a TJ laying around they'll give you or that you can buy cheaply.
Jerry,
Do you think I should do that, or buy an adjustable track bar?
(because of how close that re-drilled hole is to the edge of the bracket)
I do alot of highway driving at 65-70 or so.
Should I be worried about that re-drilled hole on the highway too, or just when I'm offroad?

Also,
even if I buy an adjustable track bar, to get it back into the correct hole,
will the position of the re-drilled hole have weakened the bracket enough to be just as dangerous?
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:37 PM   #25
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Jerry,
Do you think I should do that, or buy an adjustable track bar?
(because of how close that re-drilled hole is to the edge of the bracket)
I do alot of highway driving at 65-70 or so.
Should I be worried about that re-drilled hole on the highway too, or just when I'm offroad?
You need to get rid of the dropped Pitman arm and replace it with the OE Pitman arm, period. The reason is all about geometry... i.e. your present dropped Pitman arm has dropped the upper end of the drag link downward so the drag link's angle is steeper and no longer parallel to the trackbar which it must be to prevent bump steer.

The ONLY reason for a moderately lifted TJ to ever have a dropped Pitman arm is if you have the type of track bar that requires a dropped mount on the driver's side, which yours does not have. Having a dropped Pitman arm with an un-dropped trackbar or visa-versa is the perfect recipe for bump steer. They both must be either dropped or they both must be un-dropped... you can't mix dropped and non-dropped where the Pitman arm and trackbar is concerned.

So far as your drilled lower trackbar mounting hole goes, it is drilled pretty far over towards the driver's side... a little more than I would like to see. Ideally, you should replace the factory trackbar with an adjustable length trackbar so you can move the new longer trackbar back to the original passenger-side track bar mounting hole. Yes, you would still need to get rid of the dropped Pitman arm and reinstall an OE Pitman arm with that new adjustable length trackbar.
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:53 PM   #26
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You need to get rid of the dropped Pitman arm and replace it with the OE Pitman arm, period. The reason is all about geometry... i.e. your present dropped Pitman arm has dropped the upper end of the drag link downward so the drag link's angle is steeper and no longer parallel to the trackbar which it must be to prevent bump steer.

The ONLY reason for a moderately lifted TJ to ever have a dropped Pitman arm is if you have the type of track bar that requires a dropped mount on the driver's side, which yours does not have. Having a dropped Pitman arm with an un-dropped trackbar or visa-versa is the perfect recipe for bump steer. They both must be either dropped or they both must be un-dropped... you can't mix dropped and non-dropped where the Pitman arm and trackbar is concerned.

So far as your drilled lower trackbar mounting hole goes, it is drilled pretty far over towards the driver's side... a little more than I would like to see. Ideally, you should replace the factory trackbar with an adjustable length trackbar so you can move the new longer trackbar back to the original passenger-side track bar mounting hole. Yes, you would still need to get rid of the dropped Pitman arm and reinstall an OE Pitman arm with that new adjustable length trackbar.
Okay, so I'll need to buy both. Thanks.
I'm not going to be able to do this right away, due to lack of money.
Is that re-drilled hole in the bracket a current danger to highway driving as well as offroad? After I get the new trackbar and pitman arm, will the re-drilled hole in the bracket have weakened it enough to have to replace the bracket too, or will the current one be sufficient?
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:15 PM   #27
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The original mounting hole should still be fine, I doubt the additional hole that was drilled has weakened the bracket itself. I'd be more worried about that notch in your tie rod if anything. If that notch is as bad as it looks, that tie-rod could fold right there.

I would replace the Pitman arm before the trackbar which should be either low or no-cost, if you can find a used one, or a minimal cost. OE Pitman arms are easy to find, many people remove theirs thinking they need a dropped Pitman arm. Heck, put a "Pitman arm wanted" ad on all the Jeep forum parts wanted sections, someone will be sure to help you out.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:23 PM   #28
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Good idea. I'll put a request in.
We don't have any dedicated 4x4 shops here in our imediate area.
The closest one is about 100mi away.

Is the dropped pitman arm causing the tie rod and draglink to rub?
If not, what is?

Is the current hole for the trackbar a danger on the highway as well offroad?

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