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Old 01-15-2013, 03:32 PM   #61
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So you've ran RC, Rustys and Superlift?

No wonder you can't make any worthwhile recommendations on suspension. You've been dealing with the bottom-feeders the whole time.

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Old 01-15-2013, 03:41 PM   #62
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Depends on what you want, i dont rock crawl. I like speed so sand and snow is where its at. Check out that youtube channel he is who i would trust to build suspension, that was over 100 feet across and drove around all day after that.

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Old 01-15-2013, 03:43 PM   #63
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I remember when I wanted a RC lift.... That was also when I thought pocket flares where cool and I could just slap 4" springs on and be good to go.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:45 PM   #64
Knows a couple things...

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You should understand keauhare that there are several very technical and VERY experienced people in this thread. And to come in here as a new member and without qualification flat state that Rusty's is "far superior", that is going to make people snicker since there are several suspension lifts commonly run here that have earned widespread respect... with Rusty's not being one of them.

Rusty's has not earned widespread respect, that is for sure, and Rusty himself has earned (in my personal opinion) a reputation for not always doing the right thing for his customers after the sale. That upsets a lot of people when we read about people trying unsuccessfully to get refunds/exchanges from Rusty who becomes (in my personal opinion) little better than a bridge troll when people decide they want their $$$ back.

There are a small number of suspension manufacturers like Currie and Savvy Offroad who have earned widespread respect among new and hardcore wheelers alike. There are some that have not earned widespread respect, and I'd have to say in my personal opinion that last group includes Rough Country, Skyjacker, and Rusty's. That latter category of suspension lift manufacturer earns the most respect among new or the most easily satisfied Jeepers and the least respect among experienced Jeepers who are usually far more demanding in terms of performance and long-lasting quality. Any of those would be fine for the casual offroader or those just wanting a certain look but they aren't going to garner much respect on more difficult trails.

All of the above is strictly my completely personal opinion and none of it should be construed as unarguable fact.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:36 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
Because Rubicon Express's lift heights are significantly taller than advertised, RE's typically net about 1" over the advertised lift height. 5" of added clearance is what is needed for 35" tires.
I never knew that! I have the R.E. lift on my tj and I measured the springs and it showed it to be a 6 inch lift. However, I still believe its a 4 inch lift. No bl at all. Sye and Tom woods also.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:43 PM   #66
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very arguable indeed

do any reasonable google search on multiple forums, and you'll see have a hard time counting all the people rusty has screwed over the years.

and years of reviews say its all junk...

any kit that includes a drop pitman arm is a clear sign it was put together by somebody that has absolutely no idea how basic geometry works.

So you lift the jeep, then lower the ground clearance by dropping the skid plate. That's pretty counterproductive....why not do it right, with a double cardan driveshaft?

gear choice depends greatly on the transmission...and the OP hasn't told us what trans he has...

no, actually Rusty has a pretty long track record of lies around this...among other things

RC arms are 1/4" wall DOM tube, which is actually the same size as Rusty's arms and many others.
I have a 6 speed. And I believe it's got 3:73 gears.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:04 PM   #67
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I bought my jeep from a guy who was half way through putting on a 6" RC long arm kit. I finished that kit. At the time I didnt know any better, a lift was a lift to me. This was my first jeep and in my area I see SOOOOO many rough country stickers on windshields I thought it HAD to be good. Never dawned on me I see those stickers on SHINY trucks in the gym parking lot, not jeeps covered in dust, dirt mud or with rock damage.

Im on what Im sure is one of the tightest budgets on this forum so this kit is what I got for now and it is what it is, it honestly hasnt let me down yet. I wheel it at Rausch Creek on black trails and over most rock obstacles with some decent success. It flexes better then I thought it would so over all, for now...Im "happy" with it. I plan on replacing parts as they go with other companies tho. First will be the shocks (as long as the joints dont fail first) and springs.

Some stuff about the actual kits for you, since I can speak from REAL experience. You cant set this kit up with out a drop pitman arm or a lot of modding the kit(still trying to get rid of mine and keep or improve ride quality)...bummer. You HAVE to install the almost 1" T case drop or fab up new mounts for the arms(so I have a 6" lift and a 1" drop, thats weird)...bummer. The included shock shifter brackets break even tho the shocks come with the kit so they should be the right length(had to fab up my own with help since I dont weld well yet)....bummer. The sway bar quick discos kinda suck. They worked well for a while but I went on a MILD wheeling trip and stayed connected and the whole link snapped in half. The socks are pretty rough and the whole kit squeaks pops and rattles on the rocks.

I know this is going to be a little oxymoronic but despite all this I guess its OK if thats all you can swing and dont wheel hard. I used to justify keeping the kit by saying I dont wheel hard and we have in NJ is mud. Now I find my self driving 3 hours to Rausch, loving rocks and jealous of other rigs that I shouldnt be.

I know this is a long post but you sound like you have your mind made up on this kit, and 6" in general so hopefully youll read this despite some of the crap on here. Click on some of these dudes names (Imped, Jerry etc...no offense to some I missed) and read what theyve done. If your not SET on it yet, believe me when I tell you...if I can ever swing it I will some how be dropping this jeep down a little, getting rid of the t case drop and tucking everything up higher.

Im done my book now, sorry.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:25 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srad600
I bought my jeep from a guy who was half way through putting on a 6" RC long arm kit. I finished that kit. At the time I didnt know any better, a lift was a lift to me. This was my first jeep and in my area I see SOOOOO many rough country stickers on windshields I thought it HAD to be good. Never dawned on me I see those stickers on SHINY trucks in the gym parking lot, not jeeps covered in dust, dirt mud or with rock damage.

Im on what Im sure is one of the tightest budgets on this forum so this kit is what I got for now and it is what it is, it honestly hasnt let me down yet. I wheel it at Rausch Creek on black trails and over most rock obstacles with some decent success. It flexes better then I thought it would so over all, for now...Im "happy" with it. I plan on replacing parts as they go with other companies tho. First will be the shocks (as long as the joints dont fail first) and springs.

Some stuff about the actual kits for you, since I can speak from REAL experience. You cant set this kit up with out a drop pitman arm or a lot of modding the kit(still trying to get rid of mine and keep or improve ride quality)...bummer. You HAVE to install the almost 1" T case drop or fab up new mounts for the arms(so I have a 6" lift and a 1" drop, thats weird)...bummer. The included shock shifter brackets break even tho the shocks come with the kit so they should be the right length(had to fab up my own with help since I dont weld well yet)....bummer. The sway bar quick discos kinda suck. They worked well for a while but I went on a MILD wheeling trip and stayed connected and the whole link snapped in half. The socks are pretty rough and the whole kit squeaks pops and rattles on the rocks.

I know this is going to be a little oxymoronic but despite all this I guess its OK if thats all you can swing and dont wheel hard. I used to justify keeping the kit by saying I dont wheel hard and we have in NJ is mud. Now I find my self driving 3 hours to Rausch, loving rocks and jealous of other rigs that I shouldnt be.

I know this is a long post but you sound like you have your mind made up on this kit, and 6" in general so hopefully youll read this despite some of the crap on here. Click on some of these dudes names (Imped, Jerry etc...no offense to some I missed) and read what theyve done. If your not SET on it yet, believe me when I tell you...if I can ever swing it I will some how be dropping this jeep down a little, getting rid of the t case drop and tucking everything up higher.

Im done my book now, sorry.
No I'm glad you wrote a short novel. Lol. It was very informative. I am also on a tight budget and can't really afford to drop 5 k on a lift and wheels and tires. I don't really plan on extreme rock crawling and plan on doin the same as you upgrading as I go. But this lift will get me what I need for now and if or as I get more into the rocks ill upgrade. But I would hate to drop 3k on a lift that I might not use to its full potential. So for now I will probably just go with what I can afford and if I get into it real serious then I'll save and break down and buy currie or something that is a lot better.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:42 PM   #69
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No I'm glad you wrote a short novel. Lol. It was very informative. I am also on a tight budget and can't really afford to drop 5 k on a lift and wheels and tires. I don't really plan on extreme rock crawling and plan on doin the same as you upgrading as I go. But this lift will get me what I need for now and if or as I get more into the rocks ill upgrade. But I would hate to drop 3k on a lift that I might not use to its full potential. So for now I will probably just go with what I can afford and if I get into it real serious then I'll save and break down and buy currie or something that is a lot better.
You don't need 5k to do a proper lift.

Savvy 4" lift w/ AntiRock: $2,175
Tom Wood driveshaft & AA SYE: $525
Total $2,700

If you want 35s add:
1.25" Body Lift: $134

That adds up to under $2,900 Before discounts (call them and talk to them about them). This is a good lift with quality parts that will perform good on and off road. If you don't have that, I'd save until you do.

The lifts that Savvy sells are the most complete I've seen and if you look at what is included compared to RC, SkyCrapper, Rusty's, or any of the other budget kits, the increase in price is perfectly justified not to mention much higher quality.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #70
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Thats exactly the route I would have gone, had I know then what I know now or if I ever start with another TJ. I wouldnt do a body lift tho I would make clearance. Not because Im against 1"BL because I like the look and idea of the low COG and big tire. Id tuck everything I possibly could as high as I possibly could and find some rocks.

I mean, like I said...this lift IS getting the job done, but hell the fact it comes with Anti rock wouldve sold me, lol. My disco end link is still broken and I havent fixed it because I almost have enough money for anti rock.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:52 PM   #71
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That adds up to under $2,900 Before discounts (call them and talk to them about them). This is a good lift with quality parts that will perform good on and off road. If you don't have that, I'd save until you do.
You didn't figure in labor, wheels, and tires, though. Even with discounts, labor on tires, wheels, and the lift itself can get pretty expensive.

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So for now I will probably just go with what I can afford and if I get into it real serious then I'll save and break down and buy currie or something that is a lot better.
I think you're better off waiting until you can get the better package. There's no sense in wasting money on a mediocre kit when you could put that money towards a quality kit instead.

Assuming you're using a mechanic:

1. Pay mechanic to take off stock gear.
2. Pay mechanic to install quality kit.

... versus:

1. Pay mechanic to take off stock gear.
2. Pay mechanic to put on mediocre gear.
3. Pay mechanic to take off mediocre gear.
4. Pay mechanic to put on quality kit.

That's a lot of money you could've just put towards the quality kit.

Patience, Daniel-san!
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:13 AM   #72
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Did you do the lift yourself or have it installed ? How long did it take to install or how much was it to install? Thanks
I did this lift my self in the garage! I had it quoted and to install the lift alone it was a lil over a $1000 + $1300 <(alignment and 4 35" MTZ) I installed this lift with SYE in about 10 hrs! Do not rush!!!! I didn't, trust me there was a lot of choice words Exspecaily since this was a short arm. Long arms I found out are a lot Easier of a install! Take your time! SYE was the easiest install out of this whole thing. Sorry it took so long to get back to you!
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:23 AM   #73
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Long arms I found out are a lot Easier of a install!
What? How in the world is a lot more time and work easier? With short arms, you unbolt the stock arm and bolt up the new one. With long arms, you would've had to cut off the stock mounts. I've cut off a lot of stock TJ control arm mounts and it never gets more enjoyable.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:27 PM   #74
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What? How in the world is a lot more time and work easier? With short arms, you unbolt the stock arm and bolt up the new one. With long arms, you would've had to cut off the stock mounts. I've cut off a lot of stock TJ control arm mounts and it never gets more enjoyable.
It's easier because you have travel with long arm you don't really have to compress the springs. and when you got to mount the long arm to the frame you only have to stab two bolts. Short arms you have to stab the upper and lower while trying to rotate the axle to stab your second set of bolts.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:38 PM   #75
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It's easier because you have travel with long arm you don't really have to compress the springs. and when you got to mount the long arm to the frame you only have to stab two bolts. Short arms you have to stab the upper and lower while trying to rotate the axle to stab your second set of bolts.
You can have the same travel with short arms. You're just not doing it right.

You're also making a big deal out of bolting up arms. FYI, radius arm suspension is a big downgrade from stock. Enjoy that.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:06 PM   #76
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You didn't figure in labor, wheels, and tires, though. Even with discounts, labor on tires, wheels, and the lift itself can get pretty expensive.
I've yet pay labor for an install and have yet to charge for one. Add in wheels and tires and you will still be well below 5k.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:15 PM   #77
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Re: Rough country 6 inch lift ????? Anybody have any input?

I have the RC 6" LA running 35's. Recently upgraded axles including an 8.8 with 4:88's. Couldn't be happier. Easy to install. Shocks was the only thing that I should have went ahead and upgraded. Shoot me a message if you have any questions.

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Old 01-17-2013, 05:22 PM   #78
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Run from RC.
I had 4in on TJ for 3 years, light offroading . Put 33s on it and worked fine for year. Then death wobble slowly started.

Everything was worn out because it was basically cheap crap. I'm now running BDS and it rides great.
Save your money buy good stuff the first time.

Never again RC...I thought it was good stuff.
It now sits in a pile in the barn doing nothing like it was designed for.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:23 PM   #79
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I have the RC 6" LA running 35's. Recently upgraded axles including an 8.8 with 4:88's. Couldn't be happier. Easy to install. Shocks was the only thing that I should have went ahead and upgraded. Shoot me a message if you have any questions.

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All that LA "flex" and your still hanging a rear tire? Or am I looking at that wrong? Also, what is your avatar?
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:54 PM   #80
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Re: Rough country 6 inch lift ????? Anybody have any input?

Had a side shot that shows it better. Avatar is a Air Transportation badge.

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Old 01-17-2013, 05:59 PM   #81
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All that LA "flex" and your still hanging a rear tire? Or am I looking at that wrong? Also, what is your avatar?
"Flex" is a function of shock length, not arm length.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:32 PM   #82
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Plus I think the reason the wheel is hanging there was just line choice. I could be wrong but it looks like in that position most suspension set ups would have the wheel "hung" there. It would need A LOT more down travel there(unless Im seeing it wrong lol, besides I learn all my stuff from reading Imped and JBs posts).
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:43 PM   #83
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"Flex" is a function of shock length, not arm length.
Good point there.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:28 AM   #84
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I've yet pay labor for an install and have yet to charge for one. Add in wheels and tires and you will still be well below 5k.
You're going to have to explain what you mean. Are you doing this in a garage for yourself and your friends?
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:13 AM   #85
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best think you can do for yourself is make friends with fellow mechanically inclined jeepers. I've learned that this thing is a do it yourself machine, if you don't know how you will be paying out the ass for the entire life of the jeep. It is simply not worth it. Learn to do this stuff now, besides I find that to be the most fun!
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:23 AM   #86
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best think you can do for yourself is make friends with fellow mechanically inclined jeepers. I've learned that this thing is a do it yourself machine, if you don't know how you will be paying out the ass for the entire life of the jeep. It is simply not worth it. Learn to do this stuff now, besides I find that to be the most fun!
This.

I can't even begin to fathom the money I've saved by learning and doing work myself. As much as I've spent on acquiring tools and machines, it's still far less than the labor costs would've been if I had handed over the work to someone else. The knowledge and tools gained are assets that wouldn't have been gained otherwise.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:34 AM   #87
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I can't even begin to fathom the money I've saved by learning and doing work myself.
I'm not debating that. Of what I've got so far, the lift, wheels, and tires are the only installation labor I've paid for. I love getting into my TJ and figuring stuff out.

However, I don't think it's fair to tell the guy he can get a good lift without spending a few thousand dollars. He specifically asked at one point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 05unlimitededition
How long did it take to install or how much was it to install?
He asked about both situations. I just pointed out that it's a good idea to budget money if he needs to pay someone to have it installed because that's what he asked.

Giving him a low-ball number and not answering his other questions isn't right. If that's all the information he has, he's in for a nasty surprise otherwise.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:45 AM   #88
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It might seem daunting at first, but installing a lift on a TJ is pretty easy, just time consuming. We're not talking about complicated IFS or anything here. As long as you have a driveway or garage (heck even an empty parking lot would work), and some basic hand tools, you can install a lift. Baring any physical disability preventing getting up and down off concrete/pavement multiple times for a few hours, there is no reason you shouldn't install your own lift on a TJ.

If you can rotate your own tires, you can install a lift. Put the money you would pay somebody else toward tools.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:03 PM   #89
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It might seem daunting at first, but installing a lift on a TJ is pretty easy, just time consuming. We're not talking about complicated IFS or anything here. As long as you have a driveway or garage (heck even an empty parking lot would work), and some basic hand tools, you can install a lift. Baring any physical disability preventing getting up and down off concrete/pavement multiple times for a few hours, there is no reason you shouldn't install your own lift on a TJ.

If you can rotate your own tires, you can install a lift. Put the money you would pay somebody else toward tools.
X2 hardest part of installing my lift was gettin all the old bolts loose from the factory parts
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:30 PM   #90
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You're going to have to explain what you mean. Are you doing this in a garage for yourself and your friends?
Sometimes we are lucky enough to have a garage but not likely. It just friends helping friends out. Sometimes there is an exchange of beer. Now I won't be having someone drop their Jeep off at my house for me to install a lift all by myself. I did install mine a few times, but for others, I help them and let them use my tools if they don't have any. I joined a Jeep club a while ago and we have wrenching days or just borrow another members garage. Some of the members are welders which can come in handy too.

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