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Old 04-01-2013, 08:39 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Full Spool View Post
Uhhhhh. Yeah.

As a matter of fact, the currie has a retaining clip to hold the ball inside the joint. The RE joint has a threaded retainer that can be adjusted to insure tight fit. You get what ever tightness you get with the Currie shim and retaining clip. So, in actuality, the RE is a better joint.

Stick that in your pipe...
This argument is absolutely hilarious.....but wrong. You're either delirious or just don't have much hands-on time with different joints. The RE joint uses a threaded retainer because the UHMW races permanently deform over time, causing the load value to drop....they deform because of too little preload against the ball and because they're too hard for the application. Any time you see a threaded retainer used in a control arm joint, it's a red flag and a weak point. Summit Machine, Ballistic, and RC use similar retention methods and they've all proven to be weak in the durability department. Adjustable preload in this application is simply a bandaid. It's not a strength, but rather a weakness in design. I've dealt with all four joints, rebuilt all of them, and none of them hold up as long as I'd like. I'll give you this--RE joints hold up better than Summit Machine (what TNT uses) and Ballistic units.

Here's the kicker--I've dealt with far more JJ's than any other joint. I've ran long-term destructive testing on them, I've disassembled and re-assembled them, and I've put them through just about everything you could imagine. I've never had to replace a single bushing half....ever.
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Fixed preload? How can a retaining clip guarantee preload.
The preload is generated at assembly and once the clip is placed, that preload will remain......how is that not clear? If you've never re-assembled a JJ, you probably wouldn't understand this. Your rebuttal will be "well, what about the preload value when the bushings start to deform?" My answer to that is "I have yet to see one of these bushings encounter wear beyond what's measurable by my eye." The durability of the JJ bushings halves is far beyond any other joint bushing on the market and that's been proven for over a decade now. I'm not sure why you're so far behind.

So, Full Spool seems to think the JJ and the RE joints are of the "same design and quality." I strongly dispute that because I've rebuilt RE joints, replaced them with JJ's and have seen the differences first-hand. Aside from the joints having the same mount width and center ball bores, they're completely different. Here's why RE joints are different, which is also why they don't hold up half as well as JJ's.

UHMW races--hard races with minimal NVH absorption. This forces RE to use a bushing at the other end of the arm for NVH absorption. That bushing has minimal misalignment capability and, as most know, terrible durability.

The common RE bushing after some use


Even the "new bushings" made @ Daystar don't hold up, just as I thought they wouldn't
RE Daystar poly bushings splitting - JeepForum.com



Currie uses a poly blend bushings that absorbs a good amount of NVH and allows just enough deflection to hold up for many, many years without ever showing signs of wear. The preload on the center ball is key to that durability.

One of my old JJ's with 50k+ miles, no greasing for 3 years, run on the road almost every day and wheeled frequently and hard.


To prove my point, go build a set of arms with RE joints on both ends and go for a drive. Do the same with Currie joints. You'll feel the difference immediately and will no longer think that they use the "same design." Next, put those joints through the same stuff for the same amount of time. When the RE joints are loose and making some nice music, the JJ's will be tight and silent. You'll then agree that both the design and level of quality aren't equal.

Lastly, why would quality builders such as Rokmen, Clayton, Poly Performance, GenRight and Savvy exclusively use JJ's if RE's were the same? RE joints cost less so why wouldn't these guys pocket the difference?

Here's a thread on a similar subject: rubicon express vs currie enterprises - JeepForum.com

A thread on here in which RC joints are brought up: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/long...ml#post3529455

Here's my JJ vs. MC thread if anyone would like to see how they match up: How the Metalcloak Duroflex bushing stacks up - JeepForum.com

Looking forward to the quality material you have to offer to this discussion, Full Spool.

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Old 04-01-2013, 01:08 PM   #62
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The poly/rubber/or whatever brand you chose keeps the arms centered much better than a double johny-joint setup.
If only I would have known that was the true key to every good performing suspension.

But seriously, unless you have bent arms for the sake of clearance, who cares whether the joint is self-centering or not?

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Old 04-01-2013, 07:37 PM   #63
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Here's the kicker--I've dealt with far more JJ's than any other joint. I've ran long-term destructive testing on them,
You're a legend........ in your own mind!!!




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But seriously, unless you have bent arms for the sake of clearance, who cares whether the joint is self-centering or not?
Because it will ride at that 30 degree mark and wear a groove in the ball. And break the nylon bushings.
But don't take my word for it, Imped is the self appointed jeep guru.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:53 PM   #64
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Because it will ride at that 30 degree mark and wear a groove in the ball. And break the nylon bushings.
But don't take my word for it, Imped is the self appointed jeep guru.
Don't assume your experience with one joint holds true for them all. I tore down my JJs after 30K when I was moving them to a new Jeep, and none had any wear marks, groves, or any other signs of use. After a good cleaning, they were good as new, and continue to be used under my current Jeep.

Not to mention the countless others who have been using these joints for years upon years without having any such issues.

But obviously you have extensive experience with them otherwise you wouldn't be making such wild accusations.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:57 PM   #65
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I tore down my JJs after 30K when I was moving them to a new Jeep, and none had any wear marks, groves, or any other signs of use.
That's cool, the rubber bushings in my RE arms lasted 70,000 miles.

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But obviously you have extensive experience with them otherwise you wouldn't be making such wild accusations.
Naw, just google search!!
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:12 PM   #66
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Might as well throw my expirence in. I've had my rubicon express superflex 3.5" for about 10 years and 43,000 miles and not one problem. I keep them greased properly and they ride like new.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:20 PM   #67
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Because it will ride at that 30 degree mark and wear a groove in the ball. And break the nylon bushings.
Nylon bushings? In a Johnny Joint?
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:20 PM   #68
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Nylon bushings? In a Johnny Joint?
Those darned polymers!!
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:57 AM   #69
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You're a legend........ in your own mind!!!
Spouting off lame insults isn't helping your argument one bit. If you don't have what it takes to hold up in this discussion, just say so....otherwise, you're just proving me right. You've already said some things that directly indicate your lack of understanding on the subject so it's OK if you'd like to take a hike.

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Why don't you tell the class the story of what happened here. All details, please.
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Because it will ride at that 30 degree mark and wear a groove in the ball. And break the nylon bushings.
Refer back to when I said, "you've already said some things that directly indicate your lack of understanding on the subject." Add this to the list.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:01 AM   #70
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Damn, Imped. For someone who commented in this very thread that they prefer giving "straightforward facts with no BS," you certainly write a lot of snark and unnecessary sniping.
Happy yet?
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:16 PM   #71
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Happy yet?
Not really. Every time I've seen you participate in a thread, you end up butting heads with someone. Every time you butt heads with someone, it's because of some incredibly condescending tone and/or comment you make.

Then you continue your antagonistic approach, they get mad, and the thread descends into uselessness. It's very formulaic. I'm just tired of seeing it.

All the other threads I'm currently subscribed to that you aren't participating in have very civil conversation. They're enjoyable to read.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:05 PM   #72
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Not really. Every time I've seen you participate in a thread, you end up butting heads with someone. Every time you butt heads with someone, it's because of some incredibly condescending tone and/or comment you make.

Then you continue your antagonistic approach, they get mad, and the thread descends into uselessness. It's very formulaic. I'm just tired of seeing it.

All the other threads I'm currently subscribed to that you aren't participating in have very civil conversation. They're enjoyable to read.
I completely Agree. While Imped may know a lot about jeeps and may be able to help lots of people, his tone comes off as rather agressive at times and can make our generally pleasant community seem very intimidating to newcomers.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:10 PM   #73
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I generally jump in when I see incorrect information......I do my best to correct it and explain my reasoning as deeply as necessary. I don't try to baby anyone or paint a bright picture with unicorns, rainbows and fairies. That's how I operate in person with my friends and acquaintances, my employees and co-workers, and family.....I'm blunt and to the point, please don't sue me.

You said you were here to learn and ask questions back in post 32. I'm sorry you don't understand why applying basic mathematics in regards to suspension geometry is worth your time. And I'm sorry you can't appreciate information being given to you with no fluff added. There are plenty of others that I get along with great on this forum and others--those people enjoy learning and having intellectual technical discussions. Don't provide crap information that will confused others and I won't jump on you, period. I can't please everyone and I full recognize that.....but I can and have helped some and that's good enough for me.

If you'd please provide a link to a thread that I engaged in where questions weren't answered, someone didn't learn something, or new information wasn't exposed that'd be great and would help to strengthen your argument than I'm a terrible person. Thanks bud.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #74
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You mean you're not here to be a pen-pal?
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:20 PM   #75
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You mean you're not here to be a pen-pal?
I mean.....PM's will work, right?

Hell, here's a thread I've been participating in the last couple days. Tell me someone hasn't learned something. And oh my goodness.....I don't think anyone is upset.

RK vs Genright Rear - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:31 PM   #76
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I mean.....PM's will work, right?

Hell, here's a thread I've been participating in the last couple days. Tell me someone hasn't learned something. And oh my goodness.....I don't think anyone is upset.

RK vs Genright Rear - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
I guess. The only time I exchanged PM's with you, all you did was answer my questions.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:07 PM   #77
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I guess. The only time I exchanged PM's with you, all you did was answer my questions.
Same here.

I see the "brusque" that others are referring to, it's just that I actually prefer the approach that presents the seven magic words of learning: "See if you can figure this out." Understand the why, and the rest is cake.

Maybe Amway or someone like that has some skin thickener for the sensitive folks.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:22 PM   #78
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Let's trying sticking to the topic from now on. Thanks guys.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:49 PM   #79
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:50 PM   #80
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If you feel like you need to continue feel free to PM me, ...
PM sent.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:07 PM   #81
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Please do not flame me one way or the other, just sharing my experience.

While I am only one case and have never ran Currie arms or used their joints I did run the RE superflex system on my past XJ and over 6 years put 60,000 miles on them and never had an issue with DW or my bushing worn out or cracking. I used to run BB, Calico, JV, TDS, Colorado and Moab. It was a daily driver, ready to Jeep and I always to the day I sold it was comfortable with my family traveling in it.
Did they change the formula in the Joints? IDK. Was I just that dang good at my maintenance? I did ok I guess. Should I have bought lottery tickets? Sounds like I was a one in a million case so missed that opportunity.
I too was planning on running the RE system on my little TJ, based on my individual past experience, but it seems every thread inquiring about them now ends in death of ones wallet.
Does anyone know the exact number of each type on the road? What is the failure rate of each? I would imagine the margin is quite significant as most folks are probably trail runners and buy based on complete kit vs. paying top dollar for reputed high quality gear.
I do appreciate the experiences shared, but do see threads turning unproductive quick. Sure it digs out knowledge and challenges us, but it seems to lose respect for each other quickly. Keep the knowledge flowing and remember we are all Jeep Drivers in the end.

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