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Old 02-26-2013, 10:20 AM   #1
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Rubicon Express 3.5" Super-Flex

I recently bought a 2004 Jeep Tj. The jeep is nice but has massive "death wobble" over 50mph. It scares the sh&t out of me. Anyways I have to go through every nook and crany to make sure nothing broken, everything tightened, etc change out bolts; all the things some of the more experienced guys/gals on here have suggested. So figured since I'm doing all that why not lift the jeep and and in the process replace some of the parts that could contribute to the death wobble (e.g., track bar). I've done as much research as my inexperienced Jeep mind can do and decided on the Rubicon Express 3.5 (more like a 4" from what i've read) Super-Flex. Found a deal at 4x4 group buy for the RE-7000-3 plus RE shocks, SYE and Tom wood's driveshaft for $1799.95. Seems like a good deal. Probably gonna replace the steering stabilzer too. Anything else I should replace?

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Old 02-26-2013, 11:07 AM   #2
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Some people get the 4.5" and ask for 3.5" springs. Iirc you get adjustable control arms also for the same price from 4x4groupbuy. Sometimes there shipping is expensive depends where you live.

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Old 02-26-2013, 02:17 PM   #3
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Just a heads up: make sure you have thick skin. There's a lot of opinion out there about Rubicon Express you might not like. I was pretty shocked to read some of the commentary.

I have the same kit you're considering and haven't had a problem with it yet. Quite frankly, I'm enjoying it.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:31 PM   #4
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You'll be right back into DW territory once the infamous RE bushings wear out.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:51 PM   #5
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The new bushings in the kit are holding up from what I read.. They been out for over aprox 1-1/2 years and carries a lifetime guarantee. This all changed when 4 Wheel parts bought the company. Prior to that there were huge problems with the previous or old style bushing types. $1799.00 plus freight ($120-150) is not bad, add a rear adj track bar for another $145.00. Groupbuy was the 2nd lowest cost I found.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:21 PM   #6
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These are the bushings the 'new' RE arms come with now: RE Daystar poly bushings splitting - JeepForum.com

RE bushings were crap in the past before the moved to a harder, more brittle, less compliant bushing with less misalignment capability. I called it the moment I saw the 'new bushing' announcement and I was right..... if you'd like to disregard my recommendation of not going with RE, go right ahead. At least they use better components than Rustys.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:31 PM   #7
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If you really have your heart set on RE then at least try to get some new bushings in them instead of RE bushings. RE Long Arm Duroflex Upgrade Kit
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:11 PM   #8
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LOL

Imped, thanks for the no nonsense post. I like getting real opinions. I actually did read about that and as EMTJeep posted I'm buying the Duraflex kit.

Imped, outside of the bushings what has been you experience or knowledge on remaining components?
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jeffreybomb View Post
Just a heads up: make sure you have thick skin. There's a lot of opinion out there about Rubicon Express you might not like. I was pretty shocked to read some of the commentary.

I have the same kit you're considering and haven't had a problem with it yet. Quite frankly, I'm enjoying it.
Thanks! Not a problem with me.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:24 PM   #10
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I got the deal 10 months ago great deal get the adj lowers as well for another 150 or whatever the price was It rides great, I got 4.5 up front 3.5 rear to level it but rear still sat high so idk if its springs or my I6 and winch are just that much heavier
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:24 PM   #11
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Actually it seems Imped has a more than strong opinion on the actual design of the arms not just bushings. A whole other topic. K, I'll do some more research.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:27 PM   #12
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Yeah I would trust what Imped is saying he knows his stuff well on the suspension part of jeeps. Just look at his rig.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by EMTJEEP
Yeah I would trust what Imped is saying he knows his stuff well on the suspension part of jeeps. Just look at his rig.
Truth.

Don't waste money on RE. Research, research, and research then spend money on quality components. It's cheaper in the long run as you won't have replace stuff.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:30 PM   #14
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I had pretty bad death wobble caused by loose tie rod end links, torn up urethane control arm bushings, a tired steering stabilizer, and loose swaybar end links. Most of the problem has been solved, although I want to add a new track bar to compliment all of the work I have completed.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:37 PM   #15
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I can't see the arms playing much roll in the DW. The track bar, steering TREs, ball joints, alignment, steering stabilizer and tire balance are where to focus your attention. But its possible that the suspension arms are worn out and allowing a front to rear movement in the axle, so buy a bad ass lift kit and the worst that happens is you still have to fix the DW on your jeep with a bad add lift!
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:34 AM   #16
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I run RE control arms and track bar in the front. No real issues but it's not my daily driver. When I got the jeep a local shop re-did my front components with RE and I wish I had done some more research, but had major DW and tracking problems and was anxious to get out and ride. Thinking of swapping out to curry JJ's all around (I'm still stock in the rear components) for better adjustabilty (and hopefully ride), as I will be doing the rear end anyway and getting rid of transfer case drop and going to a SYE.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:13 AM   #17
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Told ya, Micky.
Some people prefer straight forward facts and no BS as opposed to wishy washy opinions clouded by little experience.
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Originally Posted by Micky View Post
LOL

Imped, thanks for the no nonsense post. I like getting real opinions. I actually did read about that and as EMTJeep posted I'm buying the Duraflex kit.

Imped, outside of the bushings what has been you experience or knowledge on remaining components?
No problem. I'm not a fan of the large changes in suspension geometry when going up that high and retaining factory mounts but that's not exactly easy to bypass unless you go all custom. The arms themselves are fine, it's the ends that are the problem....ie, don't bother with RE arms.

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I can't see the arms playing much roll in the DW. The track bar, steering TREs, ball joints, alignment, steering stabilizer and tire balance are where to focus your attention. But its possible that the suspension arms are worn out and allowing a front to rear movement in the axle, so buy a bad ass lift kit and the worst that happens is you still have to fix the DW on your jeep with a bad add lift!
The control arms play a huge roll in DW. The parts that constrain and locate the axle are the #1 causes for DW once they can no longer do their job--those are the control arms and track bar. That's why people need to make sure to purchase high-quality, durable parts when it comes to those areas. There is a ton of junk on the market mixed with a handful of parts worth buying. It's not at all complex once you realize that.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:32 AM   #18
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I had the death wobble. I replaced the steering stabilizer, tie rod bushings, and sway bar bushings and it wobble still but not as bad as before. I ended up replacing by rotors and the problem was fixed. The damn PO had never replaced the rotors and apparently never did any work on the brakes and the rotors were horribly warped.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:38 AM   #19
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I had the death wobble. I replaced the steering stabilizer, tie rod bushings, and sway bar bushings and it wobble still but not as bad as before. I ended up replacing by rotors and the problem was fixed. The damn PO had never replaced the rotors and apparently never did any work on the brakes and the rotors were horribly warped.
Now you're getting into a whole different subject and aren't really giving accurate advice. First off, the steering stabilizer and sway bar bushings have absolutely nothing....nada, 0....to do with DW due to the fact that they serve no purpose in locating the axle housing. The TRE's are a secondary cause of wobbles but are not, under normal circumstances, a primary culprit. Secondly, brake rotors don't warp. That's a very common myth. The vibrations you felt when braking were due to uneven brake pad material transfer, the rotor was still straight as an arrow. That's hardly a cause of DW but was instead a trigger. The real problem is still present if you haven't addressed it already.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:47 AM   #20
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I bought the same set back in 2010 and at the time it was all i needed. When I started to wheel harder I noticed the rubber bushing ends were in bad shape. I replaced them in the middle of last year, but I must have bought the older style bushing as they didnt hold up. I have now replaced both sets of rears with Currie arms and about to buy the Currie front lowers next week. If what I hear is true about improved bushings, I will replace them in my arms and make someone a great deal.
I still run their springs and agree they seem closer to 4". I also never had any problem with the Flex end of their joints. I also dont think their kit comes with adjustable rear upper arms and that is what I had on mine.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:57 PM   #21
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this is your only warning... if you're going to post just to argue - don't bother. if you're posting valid information... to assist the OP in selecting a proper lift for his rig, then keep it up.... remember we're posting here to help him. not argue about who's opinion is accurate.

if you disagree with someone, move on or politely present your side of the argument. no need to get irritated and incite a flame fest because someone disagrees with your perspective.

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Old 02-27-2013, 02:35 PM   #22
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Red face

Ok Im in almost the same position as the OP apart from the DW. I have been researching hard for 3 months and I had almost decided to settle for the RE 3.5 Super Flex kit for the convenience of buying everything in one go, those who have it seem to like it and it seems good value for money. Then after reading this post Im in doubt again. I have a 2006 65th TJ 4.0 and Im looking at running 33s. Its a daily driver and weekend warrior, so what are the collective thoughts on Currie Enterprises TJ Complete Set 8 Johnny Joint Arms with RE 3.5 springs (they seem to get very good reviews), Bilstein 5100 shocks, SYE and Tom Woods CV Driveshaft</SPAN> and Old Man Emu Steering Stablizer</SPAN>?

Have I missed anything?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
</SPAN>
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:07 PM   #23
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Ok Im in almost the same position as the OP apart from the DW. I have been researching hard for 3 months and I had almost decided to settle for the RE 3.5 Super Flex kit for the convenience of buying everything in one go, those who have it seem to like it and it seems good value for money. Then after reading this post Im in doubt again. I have a 2006 65th TJ 4.0 and Im looking at running 33s. Its a daily driver and weekend warrior, so what are the collective thoughts on Currie Enterprises TJ Complete Set 8 Johnny Joint Arms with RE 3.5 springs (they seem to get very good reviews), Bilstein 5100 shocks, SYE and Tom Woods CV Driveshaft</SPAN> and Old Man Emu Steering Stablizer</SPAN>?

Have I missed anything?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
</SPAN>
I will only comment on parts I have actually used /owned. If I had done better research before buying (like you are) I would have bought the Currie arms to begin with. They are more costly, but I wouldnt be buying a second set like I am now. If they have finally solved their bushing problem, maybe they are better.

Like I said before, I am happy with the RE springs and havent had any problems with the superflex ends. I havent run the Bilstein shocks so i cant speak to them, but I had a set of Rancho 9000s and really liked them! Tom Woods DSs are top notch!!
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:13 PM   #24
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I too also did some research & recently ordered the RE 3.5 Super Flex kit. Also essentially for the convenience (all in one-good value for money). Then after reading this post Im having some 2nd thoughts as well. Same deal: Run 33s, daily driver-weekend warrior. I called and found out I can update my arms from RE to JJ's for a small added on fee. I know the JJ's are top, just got pulled into a full kit. My only quesion is will vibration. Will I feel more, less, or the same amount when compared to the RE arms?
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:22 PM   #25
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Don't waste money on RE. Research, research, and research then spend money on quality components. It's cheaper in the long run as you won't have replace stuff.
I would love to see an in-depth write-up on lift geometry if one doesn't already exist. The 1% of concrete information is pretty drowned out by the 99% of opinion, and it can be extremely frustrating for newbs to research.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jeffreybomb

I would love to see an in-depth write-up on lift geometry if one doesn't already exist. The 1% of concrete information is pretty drowned out by the 99% of opinion, and it can be extremely frustrating for newbs to research.
What do you mean by "lift geometry" ?
way too many variables
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:24 AM   #27
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So talking with RE It seemed that they originally had rubber bushing arms, then went to a Daystar (replacement) bushings in the "same arms". Now, it seems they have newly created arms with dif 2 joints: "Super-Flex: featuring 8 new control arms, upper front and rear adjustable with our serviceable Super-Flex spherical ball joints, (similar to J-joints and the other end is a P-Meg Poly bushing. So, It sounds (seems) like a few people may have this newer/latest style, but it sounds like most may have the "old arms" and have tossed them, or put replacement Daystar bushings in, and or possibly the latest bushing in them (the old arms)? Does anyone have bad issues with the latest (re-designed) arms equipped with the P-Meg bushings? Curious...
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:41 AM   #28
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I would love to see an in-depth write-up on lift geometry if one doesn't already exist. The 1% of concrete information is pretty drowned out by the 99% of opinion, and it can be extremely frustrating for newbs to research.
You'll have to do a bit more research and will have to apply some concepts you learned back in geometry and physics class. This stuff won't just be handed to you.

Here's a good starter thread: Suspension Geometry - JeepForum.com
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What do you mean by "lift geometry" ?
way too many variables
Exactly....not sure what he meant.
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So talking with RE It seemed that they originally had rubber bushing arms, then went to a Daystar (replacement) bushings in the "same arms". Now, it seems they have newly created arms with dif 2 joints: "Super-Flex: featuring 8 new control arms, upper front and rear adjustable with our serviceable Super-Flex spherical ball joints, (similar to J-joints and the other end is a P-Meg Poly bushing. So, It sounds (seems) like a few people may have this newer/latest style, but it sounds like most may have the "old arms" and have tossed them, or put replacement Daystar bushings in, and or possibly the latest bushing in them (the old arms)? Does anyone have bad issues with the latest (re-designed) arms equipped with the P-Meg bushings? Curious...
I already posted a thread on the 'new' bushings and their failures. I'm shocked they actually believe stiff poly bushings will hold up....if anything, they'll hold up worse than the old rubber blend. And their Superflex joints are nothing like a JJ. Talking to RE is just going to get you a bunch of fluff because they don't understand how poor their ends are.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:41 AM   #29
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The control arms play a huge roll in DW. The parts that constrain and locate the axle are the #1 causes for DW once they can no longer do their job--those are the control arms and track bar. That's why people need to make sure to purchase high-quality, durable parts when it comes to those areas. There is a ton of junk on the market mixed with a handful of parts worth buying. It's not at all complex once you realize that.
That depends on the type of DW. If it has a front to rear oscillation, then the control arms are the only players. If it has a side to side oscillation, then its the steering components, track bar, ball joints, etc.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:28 AM   #30
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Here's a good starter thread: Suspension Geometry - JeepForum.com
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Exactly....not sure what he meant.
How are you "not sure" what I meant immediately after providing me with a link as if you understood what I meant?

Thanks for the read. I'd rather get help from this forum than have to remember classes I took nearly 20 years ago. The forum write-ups are more of a refresher course, thankfully.

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