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Rust photos on prospective buy. Problem?

2K views 34 replies 14 participants last post by  simon237 
#1 ·
I went to look at a 2003 Wrangler Sahara for private sale. It's a CA vehicle, 3rd owner and my main attraction was 40k miles. It was in good condition overall (As defined by KBB). The hood had paint blemishes, the hard top was faded, indicating it was kept outside, but most concerning was the rust underneath. The body did not show signs of rust and the engine bay is clean, but the underside had varying degrees of rust.

I'd like opinions on the level of rust on this vehicle. Everything else checks out and it drives fine (There is wetness of oil at the back of the gearbox), but I am wondering where you think this car has been and should I avoid it, should I just make a deduction from the price reasonable for the condition or is it just fine?
 

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#2 ·
In my opinion that all looks like surface rust. What I would have done if it is indeed only surface rust is get it all cleaned up and have the frame painted to keep the rust from furthering. Can't really help on where it's lived in its life but you could always have the VIN ran and see what pops up. Except that hole in the tailpipe that is.
 
#3 ·
No expert here.

Oil leak looks to be a rear main seal. Can't tell for sure.

Rust in pictures all look to be typical surface rust that comes with every vehicle, unless it is undercoated. Tail pipes DO rust with time. Cheap to replace.

Biggest concern with these is the frames. Slide under and check them out carefully. They are prone to rust, due to lack of drain holes.
Lack of newer undercoating seems to indicates they haven't tried to cover anything up. From what little of the frames that can be seen in your photos, they look pretty good.

Others will chime in, I'm sure.
 
#4 ·
I ran a CarFax on it. It spent the first year of it's life in Visalia, which is the hot central valley nowhere near the water. No wonder the fading of the hard top and running boards.

(The metallic paint is decent except some chips on the hood - I'd respray it. The engine bay looks good).

The second owner had it for 10 years in Rodeo, which is on San Francisco Bay. I don't *think* it should have rusted that way. More to me like someone went for a couple of drives on the wet beach down at Oceanside, never sprayed the underside down and years later, that's what you get. At least that's my guess, but I'm no Jeep expert.

I included some extra photos.

I did notice the oil leak, which is why I took the photo. How significant is that / hard to fix?
 

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#5 ·
BTW, the owner wants $15.5k. There's the oil leak, the rust, the faded hardtop, the hood scratches are siginificant enough to warrant repainting, there's a few scuffs in the interior and a few rust marks in the rear seat hooks, so it seems a bit high when I list all that. Not the rust free CA vehicles that people seek out. What's a fair market price? Oh, and the bank owns it.
 
#6 ·
I believe with the rear main you drop the oil pan and it's right there by what I've been told. Never done one myself but someone else will probably give you a more reliable answer than I can. I'm still a newb and have only had my TJ a few months now and am still learning more and more about it everyday. What does that model book at? They may give you an idea but a lot of people will always ask over what it's worth. I don't know the Sahara myself.
 
#9 ·
I have a 13 year old Honda Odyssey and a 16 year old Honda Civic. Neither of those cars show any sign of rust like this, even if it is surface. That's why I was wondering whether it was just a jeep issue or whether the car might have been on the beach.
 
#8 ·
Over eight years I've lost my front u-joints, sway bar links and a few body bolts to rust. Carwell under spray works pretty well to neutralize the surface rust if you have one in your area. I've switched to serviceable u-joints.

Look at the seams where the body panels come together and see if any of those look rough.
 
#11 ·
Not to sound lame but could someone explain to me the difference in the Sahara and the sport? I've never looked into it.
 
#12 ·
I THINK the sport is the base level that you could add upgrades to while the Sahara already has some upgrades. What those upgrades are--I THINK the Sahara comes stock with the 4.0 engine. Maybe a few other bells and whistles too.

If the bank owns the thing, I wouldn't hesitate to hammer them on price. Got no love for the banks. Anyone that can borrow money at zero interest and loan it back out to main street people at 6% or more and then needs to be bailed out, shouldn't be in business. Hit em hard.
 
#13 ·
No big deal on the rust, but I would address it. It looks like the RMS is leaking. Hard to tell from the pictures but I see an exhaust system needing replacement at some point. I'd try and work the price down.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the feedback. My main concern was whether the chassis rust was a minor issue that I can address with a day under the vehicle sanding and finishing. I think what I am reading is that this can be done and I am not looking at a Stage X cancer situation (Correct me if I am wrong).

The next thing was how to fix that leak. Dropping a pan is one thing. I just wanted to know that the gearbox didn't need to come out. Still not sure on that one.

The other issues are cosmetic or minor mechanical. The faded hardtop, well, that can't be fixed but it is still a hardtop and may only be a small detraction. It just signals that the vehicle spent its life in hot sun, not garaged. The cracked armrest console cover, glove compartment scuffs, rear seat hook rust etc., just show signs of a vehicle that hasn't really been cared for that well.

So I think asking for more than blue book price is optimistic. There's some work to be done here. A dealer would probably prefer to have a vehicle that they didn't have to put so much cosmetic work into to put it on their lot. Then there's the lien issue - another complication.

The rust was the big one, if it's controllable.
 
#18 ·
Leaking valve cover gasket can often look like a rear main seal leak. Valve cover gasket is under a one hour job for someone who knows what he/she is doing...or about 2 days for me. Change the oil pan seal while doing the rear main seal; you've got to touch one to do the other. I'd count on around $400 for a mechanic to do them.
 
#19 ·
Yes a VC gasket leaking at the rear of the engine can look like that. If I really wanted that Jeep I'd make sure before I buy that its a VC and not a RMS leak and base my negotiations on that. Checking is easy enough.
 
#20 ·
Way overpriced on a vehicle with so many cosmetic issues. As durable as the Jeep's engine is, I would look for a little higher mileage TJ that's well kept cosmetically. Even though that's seems to be surface rust, I wouldn't expect that from a vehicle with it's history. I'm a little skeptical on such low miles for that yr TJ with 3 owners that hardly drove it but has so many cosmetic issues.
I would pass..
 
#21 ·
Every vehicle does not have "surface rust" and mine certainly does not and it is not "undercoated" either whatever that might be.

I would not purchase that vehicle with that rust at that price. There is more rust than that, that is just all you have found. I would pass.

As to prices, KBB does not set prices on high demand, low availability vehicles, especially when the few not rusted, not busted, not mudded, not stupid modified with huge BLs and goofy irreversible mods is quite slim picking and getting less so each day.
 
#22 ·
All good points. The appealing thing was 40k. I ran a CarFax and nothing unusual stands out, except maybe servicing before and after sale/purchase on each occasion. Attached.

Some say the rust is probably minor, manageable and not unusual for a 13 year old Jeep. Others say 40k and this rust is odd.

Same thing with the seal. Some say it is not a problem. Others, easy to change. Still others are suspicious or that it might in fact be a valve gasket.

Maybe I should take it to a Jeep mechanic?

There are a couple of things a bit unusual about the deal. One is that it has such low miles. True, some people have a Wrangler as an adventure car and rarely drive it. That would be the second owner - 30k miles in 10 years. But for such low miles I would think it would be in better shape underneath. Secondly, the bank lien. The owner is finding out on Monday the exact process for getting the title into my name (Which I understand is a trip to the bank to pay, which they then notify the DMV that the lien is released, at which point the title is sent to me from the DMV - I *think* - need to confirm with the bank). Thirdly, I do wonder why the owner has it parked permanently at her place of work and not her home. The last one, well, I don't know.

We'll do our homework, but keep looking.

3x4x4 has a good point about KBB. Low mileage CA Wranglers that haven't been seriously offroaded are hard to come by at a good price. One other way of looking at it is that you can buy a brand new Sahara for $30k and this is a questionable 13 year old one for half. Wranglers don't depreciate much, but that doesn't mean they're good value if you have $000's of expenses in a year or two because you bought an ill cared for one. Unless you're planning on beating it up off road, nobody wants to buy an ill cared for anything.

I might go and take a couple of exterior photos and post them later today.
 

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#26 ·
Is there a reason the current owner is already bailing out within just 6 mos of ownership?

OP, I think you are too fixated on the mileage and not the overall condition which would require additional costs in repairs, which would not be cheap or DIY for most.(Frame rust and RMS). Like most have stated, issues not expected from such a low use vehicle.
 
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