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Old 09-17-2008, 12:17 PM   #1
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Squishy Brakes....

So last week I did a complete over haul on the jeep.

Changed Fluids on:
-Front / Rear Diff.
-Transmission
-Transfercase

Replaced front brakes (with ceramic)
Bleeded the brakes with DOT 5 Synthetic Fluid
Lubbed up the chasis Zurk fittings.

Now the problem is the jeep doesnt really like stopping too well still.
granted there are 33" tires w/ 15" rims. Things I have noticed are when Stopping if I pull up on the E-brake while pressing the brakes it stopps much quicker.

Is this normal for jeeps? Or is there something wrong?
If this is normal is there a way to upgrade the braking power?

Jeep has ~36,000 miles on it.

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Old 09-17-2008, 12:37 PM   #2
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does the jeep call for DOT 5 fluid? most vehicles i know are DOT 3 or 4.

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Old 09-17-2008, 12:45 PM   #3
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I'd say you need to re-bleed them. Start at the farthest point and work your way to the closest. I would also suggest you adjust the rear tensioners on the drums to grab better.

You say "still"...this implies it wasn't good before. Are you sure your master cylinder isn't the culprit here? Granted it won't stop like a Porsche but it should stop reasonably well with 33"s. I have 33's and I have no problems stopping.

Why did you choose ceramics? The stock pads are just fine.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Things I have noticed are when Stopping if I pull up on the E-brake while pressing the brakes it stopps much quicker.
the e-brake is not there to help you slow down your jeep,
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:32 PM   #5
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lol I understand that the e-brake isnt there to slow the jeep down, but ive noticed that if i Pull on it it will actually stop quicker which leads me to belieave that the rear brakes need to be adjusted / checked.

Also with Ceramic its also more reistant to brake fatigue and faster recovery time during hard braking, going down hill for long distances with your foot on the brakes etc.

I bleeded the brakes 3 different times thinking that there *might* be air in the lines, but I figured that after running 2 big bottles of brake fluid it pretty much flushed what ever was in there out.

Dot 5 Synthetic fluid just has a higher boiling point than regular brake fluid (IE Dot 2-3 etc) and is more resistant to brake failure when they are extremely hot. Granted this isnt a speed deamon by any means, but i figure its a little extra safety when on the trails going down hill and requires a little brake assistance even in 4LO.

Its designed for more higher performance applications and have always run dot 5 in my high performance vehicles with out any issues.

With Rear disc brakes how cant I adjust them I didnt think they needed to be adjusted since they are not like Drum brakes.
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:02 PM   #6
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Yes DOT-5 has a higher boiling point, but it cannot be mixed with regular DOT-3 fluid.
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:12 PM   #7
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I bleeded the brakes 3 different times thinking that there *might* be air in the lines, but I figured that after running 2 big bottles of brake fluid it pretty much flushed what ever was in there out.
Im pretty sure that after pushing 2 of the big bottles through the system that there is not any origional brake fluid left in the system. (I think its like 1.5 quart bottles??) Before starting i syphoned out the old brake fluid out of the master cylnder resivore and put in fresh fluid to help speed up the flushing out process.
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:22 PM   #8
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What kind of shape are the calipers in? Also I thinking if you did drain the Master then there still might be a lot of air in there someplace.
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:38 PM   #9
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I just syphoned it out taking out about 70% of the fluid so there wouldnt be any chance of air entering the lines that way. Once i syphoned out the old fluid just filled it back up with the new stuff

The Calipers in the front looked good like i say there is only about 36,000 miles on the jeep. Both front pads had even ware and the discs did not looked glazed.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:13 PM   #10
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Well, if you have 4 wheel disks, then you will not be adjusting any spanner nuts for the rear drums.

If you are experiencing a squishy pedal at this point, and you are bleeding them properly, and have absolutley no leaks in the system (lines or brake cylinders) then I would replace the master cylinder.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:08 PM   #11
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Buy some stainless braided hoses for the front and rear. You have no idea how much they firm up the pedal.

If they are just squishy, it's the stock rubber lines bulging. But if the pedal is fading, then the master cyl is to blame.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:39 PM   #12
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How much are the steel braded lines?
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:53 PM   #13
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Squishy is more often just a sign the brake system wasn't bled properly. By themselves, braided steel lines won't usualy make a noticeable difference in a brake system. I had to replace my brake lines for suspension lift height reasons but I didn't detect any difference after getting the SS brake lines installed. It's not like rubber brake lines in good condition balloon out from brake pressure.
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Old 09-17-2008, 06:25 PM   #14
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If applying the e-brake improves the stopping distance the back brakes are the one not working right.How are you bleeding them(tool,two people,gravity)???If it is with the pump and hold two person deal then try it again now that you have drove it a bit.If by gravity find a better way.If by a bleeder tool then I would look for problems with the rear pads,calipers,caliper slides,ect.
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Old 09-17-2008, 09:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Yes DOT-5 has a higher boiling point, but it cannot be mixed with regular DOT-3 fluid.
yes two completly different fluids.
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Old 09-17-2008, 10:48 PM   #16
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Squishy is more often just a sign the brake system wasn't bled properly
+1

Lines, or Master Cylinder have to be bled. and by just bleeding the lines doesn't mean there wont be any air in the Master CYl.
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:47 AM   #17
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Basically did it with 2 people..

Started at the rear passenger side, then rear drivers, then passenger front and then drivers front.

Had my wife pump the brakes 3 times, then hold it, opened the valve and filled up the little "brake bleeding cup" that was attached to the hose. Once all the pressure was let out, Closed the valve, she then released the pedal and then pumped 3 more times and repeated. No air was entering the calipers and no air was coming out when looking at the fluid.

I have not checked / replaced the rear pads Could that also be an issue?
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:01 AM   #18
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I would check the rear pads,rotors,calipers ect.If the e-brake improved brakeing the extra drag on the rear rotor/drum from the e-brake shoes helped the strain on the rear calipers and pads.I would say the rear rotors and pads and glazed(hardened from heat).Replace the rears if they are then bleed system again because the soft pedal has to from air in the line still.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:02 PM   #19
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Let's say your back brake pads were toast...that would put much more stress on your front pads. More heat and more stress on your front pads casues premature wear and possibly glazing. Glazing results when you overheat the brakes. If your pads are nice and shiny, then they are glazed and need to be replaced.

For all you know, you may not have any meat on your rear pads and your front ones are shot too. You need to really tear apart all of them, visually inspect them for glazing and proper thickness. Pads are cheap... replace them if they are marginal or questionable and re-evaluate your breaking performance.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:47 PM   #20
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Yeah,

the front pads were just replaced on saturday with Ceramic pads. I'll have to go though and tear apart the rear brakes and replace them. They are the stock pads..
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Old 09-18-2008, 01:45 PM   #21
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Ceramic pads have to be HOT to work well. Good for racing applications where the brakes get used alot, they get very hot and stay hot. Ceramic doesn't heat fade like regular street linings/pads can.

Street? Not so good. Cold they barely stop. The first few stops on a cold morning get exciting!

The squishy - possibly a procedure problem.
When she pumps the pedal the air bubbles break up into small bubbles, like foam. DOT 5 foams easier than DOT 3. (Put some in a jar and shake it up.) Notice how hard it is to rinse foam down your kitchen sink, same principle, the fluid goes right past the small bubbles without carrying it out the bleeder. Give it a chance to turn back into a bubble that can be pushed out.


Try this - have her just "push" slowly, then hold it, no pumping, jumping or anything.
Then open the bleeder. I'll bet you get some air now. You probably only have to do that 2 or 3 times each wheel to get the rest of the air out.

That's a typical problem that stymies lots of folks.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:36 PM   #22
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+1 for what rrich said, also dont let the pedal go to the floor, you may damage the seals in the master and end up with a really really squishy pedal.

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