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Old 07-16-2012, 10:13 PM   #1
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Stock front bumper question.

My Jeep is a 97 Sahara. I'm wanting to add the front bumper guards to the stock front bumper but the 97's didn't come with them. I picked up a pair really cheap but my bumper doesn't have the holes pre-drilled. Was wondering if someone that has a stock front 98+ bumper could post some measurements up for me. If you could measure from the outside edge of the metal bumper to the outside holes where the bumper pads attach...I should be able to use the bumper guards to figure the inner holes. Even could just pull a tape measure from the bumper edge to the holes and snap a pic of it and post it that would work too. Anyone's help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

This is the bumper guards I'm wanting to attach, but used:

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/mopar-f...2000240ac.html

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Old 07-17-2012, 12:06 AM   #2
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I understand wanting the stock look but for less than the price if two of those why not just some buy D ring mounts and D-rings and weld then onto the bumper that's what I'm planning on doing to mine I feel it's a more rugged look and you add two more tow points to your front end. Just a suggestion.

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Old 07-17-2012, 12:10 AM   #3
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Do NOT weld D-rings onto those thin sheet metal factory bumpers!

The factory sheetmetal bumpers aren't strong enough and you cannot simply weld D-rings onto the surface of even strong heavy-duty bumpers... they must be through-welded by a tab passing entirely through the bumper that is welded on both sides. Welded onto the factory bumpers, the D-rings would be ripped right off with a decent pull and likely harm/injure/kill someone as the strap or cable and shackle flew back away from the bumper after it tore free of its weld on the thin sheet metal.

The only safe way to add shackles onto a stock bumper is to use the type that bolt onto the top of the bumper (like tow hooks do) via Grade 5 or Grade 8 bolts that pass through the bumper into the frame below.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:17 AM   #4
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Whoops don't listen to me then thanks for saving my a$$ Jerry boy. :O
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:12 AM   #5
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Thanks for the ideas but like Jerry said, it wouldn't be safe...plus I've already bought a pair of the stock bumper pads for only $15.
If anyone could pull a tape measure to those holes and snap a picture of it today that would make my day...I'd like to install them tonight while at work. Thanks again guys.
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:25 AM   #6
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From outside edge of the metal bumper to closest edge of rubber is 10 1/4 inches. The center of the rubber piece is about where the tow hook-not bolts, but hook, is located
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:50 AM   #7
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Couldn't find a better pic but this is what jlpete98 means, the OEM towhooks are in the centre of the rubber guards.

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Old 07-17-2012, 06:56 AM   #8
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I have a 2001 and not sure if PO relocated bumper pads or not but from the center of the outer bolt to end of metal bumper on mine it measures 4.5 inches. PO had installed towbar attach points to front bumper and welded through frame so maybe my pads are more outboard than normal.

Tonycrd, good to hear from you. been a long time, used to bump into you frequently on LOST as Liberty2.8 when I had my CRD, I sure miss it.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:49 AM   #9
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Hiya! Good to see you still have a Jeep!
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:39 PM   #10
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Tow hooks... Summit and Harbor Freight both sell them for $10 per hook. Grade 8 bolts, cheap at the local Ace Hardware. Cheap, strong, quick and easy to install. They do the job, got me out of a big mud hole just two days ago.
My niece says that they look like claws or fangs. lol
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:50 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=Dragonii;2593404]Tow hooks... Summit and Harbor Freight both sell them for $10 per hook. Grade 8 bolts, cheap at the local Ace Hardware. Cheap, strong, quick and easy to install. They do the job, got me out of a big mud hole just two days ago.
My niece says that they look like claws or fangs. lol
[QUOTE]


Those look good; Harbor Freight lists them for $7.99 including hardware and safety clip with a 10,000 lb rating. Might have to go get me some. I'm guessing the holes line up?
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALjeep View Post

Those look good; Harbor Freight lists them for $7.99 including hardware and safety clip with a 10,000 lb rating. Might have to go get me some. I'm guessing the holes line up?
Mine came from Summit, but I saw the Harbor Freight ones there the other day for $9.99 in the store. (Take a print out of the web page, they are bad about pricing)
But yeah, the ones at HF do come with hardware, they even have like a clip on them.


And yeah, they line right up with the factory bolts in the bumper/frame. I put mine on sitting right in front of the hardware store where I bought the bolts.

And if you have a hitch in the back.... also at Harbor Freight for $10.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:49 PM   #13
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Thanks for all the info...and the measurements. Hope I can install the bumper guards tonight, going to paint them first so may let them dry overnight before installing them.

Question: do I have to take the front bumper off to be able install the bumper guards?
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmdavis007 View Post
Thanks for all the info...and the measurements. Hope I can install the bumper guards tonight, going to paint them first so may let them dry overnight before installing them.

Question: do I have to take the front bumper off to be able install the bumper guards?
Not if you have removed the milk jugs. It also may depend on where you mount the pads. My measurement from outside bolt to end of bumper of 4.5" makes it easy to access but not sure about the 10 1/4" mounting that jlpete98 mentioned. Either way you should be able to get to the nut to tighten since the backside of bumper is open.
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:54 AM   #15
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If you want OEM position you will have to take the bumper off. There is a round chasis crossmember behind it that makes it impossible to reach the studs.
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Mine came from Summit, but I saw the Harbor Freight ones there the other day for $9.99 in the store. (Take a print out of the web page, they are bad about pricing)
But yeah, the ones at HF do come with hardware, they even have like a clip on them.

And yeah, they line right up with the factory bolts in the bumper/frame. I put mine on sitting right in front of the hardware store where I bought the bolts.

And if you have a hitch in the back.... also at Harbor Freight for $10.
i picked up the rear hitch shackle and two tow hooks(on sale $5.99 each) today from harbor freight. the bolts are stamped 8.8, does that mean they are grade 8? or should i go to home depot and get some?
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:06 PM   #17
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8.8 is metric grade 5 I believe.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:55 PM   #18
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8.8 is metric grade 5 I believe.
hmm thanks, i will stop by home depot tommorrow
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:55 PM   #19
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hmm thanks, i will stop by home depot tommorrow
Just a question about the HF tow hooks and supplied bolts; won't the bolts that come with these hooks work or are they the wrong threads?
HF still has these on sale until the end of September for $5.99 each.
Also, did you leave the little clip on or mount without them?
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:35 PM   #20
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If they come with 1/2 bolts, they should fit but you need at least grade 5 or best grade 8 bolts. You can search on the internet for the markings. The top of the heads will have hatch marks indicating 5 or 8
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:41 PM   #21
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Just throwing this out there to remind everyone to be carefull. I know for a fact that one vehicle was pulling out another vehicle with a nylon strap placed over a very similar hook. The hook pulled out of the vehicle frame where it was mounted and the strap propelled it 100' through the air and through the rib cage of a man standing by killing him instantly.

The hook didn't break but what is believed to have happened is that one bolt broke and then the second bolt pulled through.

Unless a vehicle is only slightly stuck I would use a strap wrapped around something substantial like the whole bumper or part of the frame and not rely on two little bolts to hold.

If its not too bad you would be fine but if its burried I wouldn't use those hooks.

I'm not an engineer but it might help to use some kind of back plate on the other side if possible rather than just the nuts and washers.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaRolln View Post



Just throwing this out there to remind everyone to be carefull. I know for a fact that one vehicle was pulling out another vehicle with a nylon strap placed over a very similar hook. The hook pulled out of the vehicle frame where it was mounted and the strap propelled it 100' through the air and through the rib cage of a man standing by killing him instantly.

The hook didn't break but what is believed to have happened is that one bolt broke and then the second bolt pulled through.

Unless a vehicle is only slightly stuck I would use a strap wrapped around something substantial like the whole bumper or part of the frame and not rely on two little bolts to hold.

If its not too bad you would be fine but if its burried I wouldn't use those hooks.

I'm not an engineer but it might help to use some kind of back plate on the other side if possible rather than just the nuts and washers.
It's very likely they did not use the proper hardened Grade 5 or Grade 8 (best) bolts. Hardened Grade 5 or Grade 8 bolts won't let go like that when threaded properly into the frame. ONLY use hardened Grade 5 or 8 hardware when mounting retrieval points like hooks and shackles.

But my main point is to never wrap a tow/snatch strap around or attach anything to the bumper itself which is little more than thin sheet metal. The bumper is defintely not a structural part of the frame.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaRolln View Post


Just throwing this out there to remind everyone to be carefull. I know for a fact that one vehicle was pulling out another vehicle with a nylon strap placed over a very similar hook. The hook pulled out of the vehicle frame where it was mounted and the strap propelled it 100' through the air and through the rib cage of a man standing by killing him instantly.

The hook didn't break but what is believed to have happened is that one bolt broke and then the second bolt pulled through.

Unless a vehicle is only slightly stuck I would use a strap wrapped around something substantial like the whole bumper or part of the frame and not rely on two little bolts to hold.

If its not too bad you would be fine but if its burried I wouldn't use those hooks.

I'm not an engineer but it might help to use some kind of back plate on the other side if possible rather than just the nuts and washers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
It's very likely they did not use the proper hardened Grade 5 or Grade 8 (best) bolts. Hardened Grade 5 or Grade 8 bolts won't let go like that when threaded properly into the frame. ONLY use hardened Grade 5 or 8 hardware when mounting retrieval points like hooks and shackles.

But my main point is to never wrap a tow/snatch strap around or attach anything to the bumper itself which is little more than thin sheet metal. The bumper is defintely not a structural part of the frame.
As Jerry said, very possible that they didn't use the right bolts. When I put mine on I went to Ace Hardware (love those guys) and asked for grade 8 bolts. I also made sure that they were long enough that they completely threaded though at least a quarter inch on the other side of the hole.
And yeah, the factory bumper is a thin sheet of metal, don't expect it to hold.

But truth be told, no matter what you are using, if it's stuck that bad, NO ONE should be standing anywhere around the vehicle in the open when the pulling begins.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:03 PM   #24
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and never use tow straps, only recovery straps, with a wet t shirt or towel placed over tensioned strap. and no should be standing in the open and watching.

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