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Old 07-14-2011, 08:42 PM   #1
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TJ Life Expectancy/Opinion Time

TL;DR: How long can a non-mechanic, "regular Joe" expect to keep a TJ safe/usable, and with what caveats?

Alright, I searched and found some older threads on the topic, and the general consensus is that I should expect my Jeep to live to anywhere from 235k miles to something just shy of infinity...

Now, my particular unit is a '97 that, after approaching 200k miles, spent two good, solid midwest winters basically sitting, exposed to the elements, doing nothing. I've just recently put around a thousand bucks into reconditioning it and getting it road-worthy again, and I must say - I was amazed at how little it took to get her running! Some fresh fluids, a new battery, brakes, tires...I've just been taking it easy with her since getting her running again, short trips around town and the like, and she hasn't developed any new or unexpected quirks. Hell, she was even polite enough not to leave any stains on my driveway where she'd been sitting!

Now, down to the point of all this - I'm wary of spending too much money on a vehicle with 200k miles. I'm not much of an expert on rust, but I know there's some pretty severe spots on the body tub around the tailgate hinges, and on the doors (but those are easily replaced, so I'm not worried about them); it also looks like the frame rails have some good rust going - but as far as I can tell it's surface rust and nothing to panic about.

For now.

I bought it with 89k miles on it, and don't know what has been done to it prior to that point, but I haven't done any work on the clutch, transfer case, or transmission - but the clutch doesn't slip, I've never had a problem getting my gears, and 4WD hasn't failed me yet.

For now.

It's going in tomorrow for new tires. In the back of my mind, I think this is probably the last set of tires it'll ever get, that it's going to die before the tires go bald.

I don't want to say money is an issue, but realistically, it's definitely a consideration.

Am I unreasonable to expect 250k? At what point do I need to concern myself with the condition of the frame or other undercarriage components, and can anything be done once they've started rusting? If I drop the cash on a frameless soft-top (I've only got a hardtop currently), should I expect to get my money's worth out of it?

She's my first Jeep - and nothing would make me happier than to keep this one "forever." Considering the number of YJs and CJs, and Jeeps even older, that are out there, I know this is at least possible. Is this possible for a "regular Joe," though? I don't have a shop, I don't know how to weld, and I can't afford to have a shop put in a new engine -- but I do my own brakes, installed my own lift kit, etc. (I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that it's my Jeep, and so it's my responsibility to do the work, whenever I can.)

If you've bothered to read this far, thank you! If you've read all of this *and* can offer some advice, double thanks!

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Old 07-14-2011, 09:29 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mholger View Post
TL;DR: How long can a non-mechanic, "regular Joe" expect to keep a TJ safe/usable, and with what caveats?

Alright, I searched and found some older threads on the topic, and the general consensus is that I should expect my Jeep to live to anywhere from 235k miles to something just shy of infinity...

Now, my particular unit is a '97 that, after approaching 200k miles, spent two good, solid midwest winters basically sitting, exposed to the elements, doing nothing. I've just recently put around a thousand bucks into reconditioning it and getting it road-worthy again, and I must say - I was amazed at how little it took to get her running! Some fresh fluids, a new battery, brakes, tires...I've just been taking it easy with her since getting her running again, short trips around town and the like, and she hasn't developed any new or unexpected quirks. Hell, she was even polite enough not to leave any stains on my driveway where she'd been sitting!

Now, down to the point of all this - I'm wary of spending too much money on a vehicle with 200k miles. I'm not much of an expert on rust, but I know there's some pretty severe spots on the body tub around the tailgate hinges, and on the doors (but those are easily replaced, so I'm not worried about them); it also looks like the frame rails have some good rust going - but as far as I can tell it's surface rust and nothing to panic about.

For now.

I bought it with 89k miles on it, and don't know what has been done to it prior to that point, but I haven't done any work on the clutch, transfer case, or transmission - but the clutch doesn't slip, I've never had a problem getting my gears, and 4WD hasn't failed me yet.

For now.

It's going in tomorrow for new tires. In the back of my mind, I think this is probably the last set of tires it'll ever get, that it's going to die before the tires go bald.

I don't want to say money is an issue, but realistically, it's definitely a consideration.

Am I unreasonable to expect 250k? At what point do I need to concern myself with the condition of the frame or other undercarriage components, and can anything be done once they've started rusting? If I drop the cash on a frameless soft-top (I've only got a hardtop currently), should I expect to get my money's worth out of it?

She's my first Jeep - and nothing would make me happier than to keep this one "forever." Considering the number of YJs and CJs, and Jeeps even older, that are out there, I know this is at least possible. Is this possible for a "regular Joe," though? I don't have a shop, I don't know how to weld, and I can't afford to have a shop put in a new engine -- but I do my own brakes, installed my own lift kit, etc. (I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that it's my Jeep, and so it's my responsibility to do the work, whenever I can.)

If you've bothered to read this far, thank you! If you've read all of this *and* can offer some advice, double thanks!
Look at it like this, A Jeep is almost as easy as a set of legos, an erector set, or an old school Chevy... Every single part on it can be swapped out for aftermarket parts, from the frame itself, to the engine and drivetrain parts... it's easily possible to build a complete Jeep from nothing but aftermarket parts.

If you figure that a new car payment is usually around $500 dollars a month, and usually last for about 5 years, then figure if you spent $500 a month fixing, and upgrading your Jeep, in 5 years the other guy would have a 5 year old car that is most likely about to start needing some serious repairs, while you and your Jeep would be looking like a brand new vehicle, and able to do things and go places a brand new show room floor Jeep isn't capable of...

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Old 07-14-2011, 09:35 PM   #3
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Well put.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:47 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by necromancer_tat View Post
Look at it like this, A Jeep is almost as easy as a set of legos, an erector set, or an old school Chevy... Every single part on it can be swapped out for aftermarket parts, from the frame itself, to the engine and drivetrain parts... it's easily possible to build a complete Jeep from nothing but aftermarket parts.

If you figure that a new car payment is usually around $500 dollars a month, and usually last for about 5 years, then figure if you spent $500 a month fixing, and upgrading your Jeep, in 5 years the other guy would have a 5 year old car that is most likely about to start needing some serious repairs, while you and your Jeep would be looking like a brand new vehicle, and able to do things and go places a brand new show room floor Jeep isn't capable of...
Well said my friend.



If you do decide to rebuild her please keep us updated with step by step pictures so we can see your/her progress.

As you already noticed with getting her running and seeing how well she behaves its a gratifying thing to experience. You will only experience this more and more as you improve her and get her back to her original beauty. Don't let her age and mileage fool you. If you take the proper precautions you will have her running closer to infinity than you think.

One thing at a time.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:54 PM   #5
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I let my ZJ sit for 4 years. I put a new battery in it and changed the oil and added fresh gas to the old crud in the tank... It ran like new...Still does!
You can expect to keep your TJ for along time. I would suggest removing as much surface rust from the frame as possible and coat it with POR 15, that will seal it and prevent the frame from rusting through. Everything can be replaced. Mileage takes it's toll as does the weather and road salt, but it's not gonna keep a Jeep down. I helped push an XJ out of a rut at Camp Jeep in 2001, it was stock and had 500k+ on it, it made it the rest of the way and drove home.
Change the fluids and coat the frame, the body can be fixed as needed. It is worth investing in.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:34 PM   #6
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All really heartening to hear. To be sure, I don't intend to part ways with the old beast until she's well and truly done. Just trying to get a feel for when that might be...

What sort of precautions can I take?

Regarding the frame and POR-15 - from what I understand, I should be able to wire-brush whatever rust off I can, then coat it with POR-15; would it be worthwhile to apply some sort of phosphoric acid wash first? I suspect it'd be preferable to separate the frame from everything else and sandblast it, but I'm afraid that's just not a realistic option for me at this point...

Thanks again! It's definitely nice having some confidence that I'm not just throwing money at a lost cause.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:45 PM   #7
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Yes. you can look into phosphoric acid such as naval jelly, or you can another rust converting product.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:50 PM   #8
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If I had to select a number to accurately reflect the longevity of a well-maintained Jeep, it would be a sideways eight.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:57 PM   #9
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Confusing.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:59 PM   #10
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Confusing.
Google: "Infinity symbol"
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:07 PM   #11
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lol
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:08 PM   #12
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Google: "Infinity symbol"
I knew that, just didn't know if you were turnig it left or right.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:12 PM   #13
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I knew that, just didn't know if you were turnig it left or right.
Doesn't really matter in the end... I was trying to convey that the Jeep TJ is one that will last as long as it is properly cared for. That's all.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:18 PM   #14
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8 is about the same left or right huh? Yep I hope that's the case. I have 102k on the clock and hoping for a very long run.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:20 PM   #15
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8 is about the same left or right huh? Yep I hope that's the case. I have 102k on the clock and hoping for a very long run.
You'll get it as long as you keep up on the maintenance. Driveline fluids, transmission, oil, coolant, brake and power steering fluids.... at risk of invoking the wrath of Mr. Bransford, listen to the Jiffy Lube (or wherever you go) guys... I change every fluid my Jeep has annually. Regardless of mileage... and I don't drive it a lot because I'm on 2 wheels in the summertime.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:35 PM   #16
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If I had to select a number to accurately reflect the longevity of a well-maintained Jeep, it would be a sideways eight.

Well Said!!!!!
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:58 AM   #17
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Driven kindly, a Jeep should last better than 300k with a few consumable parts, fluid changes, and adjustments.
The biggest enemy to a Jeep's longevity is rust.
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Old 07-15-2011, 07:35 PM   #18
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Alright, new tires on (4x 31x10.5 Falken Rocky Mountains; I cheaped out and kept my 31x10.5 BFG MT spare...it's still in good condition). Ride is great, and muuuuch quieter than the MTs were.

Ran into an interesting pair of issues on the ride to the tire shop and back (30-40 miles, round trip; furthest I've driven it since it was parked). The alternator doesn't seem to be putting out proper voltages at idle - but is fine while driving. The oil pressure unexpectedly dropped, too; driving under 40mph it was up around 40psi; above 40mph it was floating anywhere from just under 20psi to just under 40psi - seemingly randomly shifting around. On the way back, however, oil pressure was more or less fine...stayed right up around 40psi while driving, around 20psi idling. Seemed to vibrate around a bit. Who knows...oil pump? Sending unit? I'll have to spend some time on that before I drive it much - last thing I want is a seized engine.

Also, on the way back, the clutch developed a weird sort of sticking feeling whenever I'd depress it. It was smooth about 1/2 way down, then it felt like it'd stick/let go/stick/let go/stick/let go, then it would be smooth the rest of the way in. Didn't seem to impact shifting at all. By the time I'd gotten home it had mostly disappeared, so I'm not sure if it's related to the clutch, the cable, the peddle hangar, ...?

That aside, definitely running well. The guy at the tire shop was somewhat surprised it was a '97 with 180k miles on it anyway...

Thanks again, everyone!
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:10 PM   #19
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Alright, new tires on (4x 31x10.5 Falken Rocky Mountains; I cheaped out and kept my 31x10.5 BFG MT spare...it's still in good condition). Ride is great, and muuuuch quieter than the MTs were.

Ran into an interesting pair of issues on the ride to the tire shop and back (30-40 miles, round trip; furthest I've driven it since it was parked). The alternator doesn't seem to be putting out proper voltages at idle - but is fine while driving. The oil pressure unexpectedly dropped, too; driving under 40mph it was up around 40psi; above 40mph it was floating anywhere from just under 20psi to just under 40psi - seemingly randomly shifting around. On the way back, however, oil pressure was more or less fine...stayed right up around 40psi while driving, around 20psi idling. Seemed to vibrate around a bit. Who knows...oil pump? Sending unit? I'll have to spend some time on that before I drive it much - last thing I want is a seized engine.

Also, on the way back, the clutch developed a weird sort of sticking feeling whenever I'd depress it. It was smooth about 1/2 way down, then it felt like it'd stick/let go/stick/let go/stick/let go, then it would be smooth the rest of the way in. Didn't seem to impact shifting at all. By the time I'd gotten home it had mostly disappeared, so I'm not sure if it's related to the clutch, the cable, the peddle hangar, ...?

That aside, definitely running well. The guy at the tire shop was somewhat surprised it was a '97 with 180k miles on it anyway...

Thanks again, everyone!
As you said in your first post, you let your jeep sit unused for 2 years... it's veryy expectable that some of the parts aren't going to work as well as you remember due to seals drying out from lack of lubrication, and also from surface rust causing parts to bind up a bit. Make sure everything on your jeep is well lubed, and change all of the fluids and filters. Ome other stuff might be worn out or just rusted up from sitting, I'd recomend going over each part of the Jeep with a nice bright flashlight, and making sure none of your bushings dry rotted from sitting, and make sure you don't have surface rust on any of your moving parts that contact other parts/places on your Jeep, since that can cause the binding up problems you're experiencing.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:04 PM   #20
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As you said in your first post, you let your jeep sit unused for 2 years... it's veryy expectable that some of the parts aren't going to work as well as you remember due to seals drying out from lack of lubrication, and also from surface rust causing parts to bind up a bit.
No doubt! Part of the reason I've been keeping it limited to short trips around town is to try and identify these sorts of issues, and be able to address them, before they get to be serious.

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Make sure everything on your jeep is well lubed, and change all of the fluids and filters. Ome other stuff might be worn out or just rusted up from sitting, I'd recomend going over each part of the Jeep with a nice bright flashlight, and making sure none of your bushings dry rotted from sitting, and make sure you don't have surface rust on any of your moving parts that contact other parts/places on your Jeep, since that can cause the binding up problems you're experiencing.
I've got the next week off, so I'll spend some time with the Jeep and a flashlight (and a camera). Someone earlier in the thread asked that I document and photograph progress, so I'll probably start a more appropriate thread for that this weekend. I think the reconditioning work warrants a proper thread...Especially the part where I attempt to learn how to treat body rust...

More on topic - one thing that concerns me is the condition of the U-joints. Is there a good way to identify if they are failing or will soon fail? I'm aware of what has been described as "fighting sparrows" (a noise which I haven't heard coming from this thing yet), but other than that?

As always, thanks! I appreciate the advice/assistance!
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:49 PM   #21
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481,000 klm same engine, runs amazing.

2001 tj 4.0L sport
481,000 klm same engine, runs amazing.
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:56 PM   #22
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This is very good to hear as my TJ has 192K on her now
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:59 PM   #23
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They last longer than Imports. Any import is scrap metal garbage.
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:00 PM   #24
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2001 tj 4.0L sport
481,000 klm same engine, runs amazing.
Kilometers? Is that like 774K miles?!!!

If so my 2001 with 70K miles will last 121 years? Ha
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:16 PM   #25
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Kilometers? Is that like 774K miles?!!!
Wrong way. It's around 300k miles.
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:29 AM   #26
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Wrong way. It's around 300k miles.
Makes much more sense. Also means only 47 years out of my tj ha
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:58 AM   #27
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I just bought mine with 106,000 miles. Every thing I read said the engine would go 300,000+ if maintained well. Almost everything else is easily replaceable and fairly cheap. What's not to like? Beats some refined SUV that you can't work on or fix yourself.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:44 AM   #28
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Kilometers? Is that like 774K miles?!!!

If so my 2001 with 70K miles will last 121 years? Ha
simplest way to approx km to miles. if reading is in KM, take number, divide by 5, then multiply by 3.

his odometer shows 481K. so 481000/5= 96200. Then 96200x3= 288600 mi
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:21 PM   #29
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This is very reassuring... Mine only had 22,000 mi when I bought it this August (2005 Wrangler Unlimited).
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:44 PM   #30
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im also very glad to read this i just bought a 97 tj with 150000 but the guy i got it from has taken very good care of it has all paperwork from everything he has done to it i havent even got to drive it yet and wont get to for another couple months(currently deployed but couldnt stop myself from going ahead and getting the jeepa)I CANT WAIT!!!!!

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