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TJ seats- misaligned for safety?

7K views 77 replies 29 participants last post by  parrot head 
#1 ·
I bought a 2004 TJ. I live in Sunnyvale, CA. The front seat in the car is tilted. A lot. It's tilted so that if you placed a tennis ball on the seat, it would roll out of the door. Sitting in that Jeep is literally like sitting in a chair where the legs on your right side are longer than those on the left. Great on the back. Not.

So, I reported it to the dealer as a warranty issue.

Listen. I'm dead serious -- I swear it -- here's what the service manager told me:

"I talked to Chrysler about your seat and they said that the seats in the Wrangler are intentionally tilted toward the doors. Jeep made them that way because the car is used off road. If you were to get into a difficult position, they don't want to make it hard for you to get out of the car. The seats are intentionally tilted to help you to get out."

This is my first Jeep and I love the car. Always wanted one going back to CJ days. Can anyone tell me if this statement is factual? My gut reaction and common sense tell me that this a stunning example of a lie that could void the warranty of a lie detector machine, but I seek the wisdon of this forum to confirm it. I could be wrong.

Siggie
 
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#2 ·
Honestly, most people that work at jeep (atleast the phone opperators) don't know shit..... We had a guy that wasnt able to tell us the gear ratio and ring and pinion size on a stock 97 TJ, he could tell us the part number, but not what we needed, It was the biggest waste of an hour on the phone ever.

But then I posted the question up here and it was answer correctly within 5 mins of me posting it up.

Take a pic of the seats and post them up...
 
#4 ·
We have an 04, and I have not noticed any tilting of the seat. It sits perfectly level with the floor. Check your seat frames, where they bolt to the floor, and see if someone shimmed them that way. Sounds like some personal fabbing to me. I am guessing that you bought your Jeep used????
 
#6 ·
sounds like BS to me also. I have a 04 and my seats are not like that.
 
#9 ·
You folks are great. I must say I was in awe of the service manager telling me tilting the seat helps driver to get out of the car in case there's a rollover. He said it with so much conviction and force that for a brief second I almost believed it.

But then it occurred to me - in a rollover, you're upside down, or sideways -- what the hell difference does the damn seat angle matter?!

And why would dropping the seat on one side matter a hill of beans toward getting out?

This dealer really makes me nervous. Anyone who would say something like that is either incompetant or dishonest.
 
#24 ·
I'm not sure he would put it in writing. These guys are shrewd. We got into a fairly heated argument about it too. In the argument he threatened that if he went back to Chrysler to approve the seat repair that they would deny the claim.

I replied that I don't consider Chrysler the final arbitor -- that I would file a complaint with the California Bureau of Automotive Repair and would go to court if necessary.

He was pretty confident that I would lose because tilting the seat is a safety issue. You had to hear this. A long time ago, someone told me it's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it that matters. He said it with so much confidence I felt compelled to check with this forum to verify my own common sense. Honestly, I feel embarrassed.

Maybe I should start a campaign to shame other SUV makers who have failed to install crooked seats -- those cars are death traps! :D

Of course, if somehow magically they do fix the seat and if ever do roll my beloved Jeep, I will feel like a COMPLETE asshole if I die trying in vain to get out because the seat was too level! :eek:
 
#28 ·
I was just skimming thru this thread and I can't belive a service manager would do that. blows my mind. I recomend getting a small 2 fool long level from a hardware store that shows the angle, have them pull up another TJ, its a dealer they should have plenty, and find out the exact angle of your seat verses a random selection from the lot. If they want to tell you some crap like that make them show you. I'd be happy to provide my TJ for a tester to show that the seats a level from left to right.
 
#29 ·
BINGO! Not only that, even if they ALL wrong -- if every 04 TJ owner is driving like they're in an airplane banked to make a left hand turn, the fact that they all are bad doesn't make it right. That's what recalls are for. Sitting in a canted seat is not good for my back.

Anyway, I have yet to find a TJ that is tilted like mine. What really makes me upset was the cock and bull story about needing a canted seat to exit the car. He might as well have told me he thinks I'm an idiot. Here's the thing -- a lot of people would accept that kind of BS and drive away constantly listing to port like they were driving in the villian's lair of an old batman episode. LOL! :D

One thing I did NOT mention -- I became so frustrated at the dealer's bullshit, I told him that I would fix the seat myself. When I get the car back, I'm going to pull the seat and add fender washers to shim it level. Honestly, it's this kind of behavior that shits on the efforts of the American autoworkers to put out a quality product. When the dealer is a pain in the ass to deal with, you start looking at other options like Japanese cars.
 
#34 · (Edited)
If they are truely a five star dealer you could file a complaint with the five star oganization (Independent certification organization) then sit back and watch the dealer jump through hoops. These dealers usually care more about their five star rating then even the BBB. What the dealer is telling you seems to be bunk to me. If anything a tilted seat placed in a vehicle that the doors can be removed and usually are removed at various times is completely unsafe (my opinion of course).
 
#35 ·
one other thing you can try is to ask the dealership for the regional office's phone number. i did that once at a toyota dealership and they would not give it to me, instead thay fixed the problem. just a thought.
 
#36 ·
These are great suggestions -- I definitely didn't consider them. One thing that may complicate going to Chrysler is that they are not a 5 star dealer. They're relatively new.

This whole experience has really taught me something. Having a warranty has nothing to do with peace of mind.

Zero.

There were other problems with the Jeep. I bought that Jeep in September 2006 -- under warranty. In under 4 months of ownership the car has resided in the shop for 1.3 months. :mad: Bizarre circumstances. It's STILL in the shop. I dropped it off last Sunday and I go to work everyday without even thinking about arranging a ride to go pick it up because I have no expectation that the dealer will call me. I walk around with a rough idea that "I'll see the car probably before January." Maybe not.

I'm a guy who used to hobby with cars -- still do. I have a Boss 302 replica in my garage now (awaiting me to finish installation of the drive train and interior) :rolleyes: I bought the Jeep (my favorite car) because I want to stay married and the constant weekend garage work was a strain.....on my wife. :D Even friends and neighbors were giving me the business about being a middle aged grease monkey.

HA!

So now, instead of peaceful Saturday monring sessions in my garage with Crimson Tide playing on the TV while I problem solve and wrench my way into pretty damn nice oldie-but-head-turning reliable transportation -- I:

  • Call for dealer appointments
  • Call to negotiate with a service advisor what should be done.
  • Show up on time only to stand around while the dealership people ignore me.
  • Spent an hour getting a rental car.
  • Wait 3-5 days before getting a call from the service advisor (or as is usually the case, call multiple times leaving messages)
  • Experience the joy of having the advisor completely forget what was explained to him (most recently, I typed a clear letter explaining
the issues -- they didn't read it)

Then, all of that positions me to begin playing the game -- will they fix it, and if so, will it be fixed correctly? As a bonus, I get to play "bring the car back," featuring the "negotiate with the advisor" subroutine.

Warranty's are overrated. New cars are overrated. THERE ARE only three things that provide automotive peace of mind.

  1. A car that is actually reliable, regardless of the existence of a warranty.
  2. An owner who has the capacity to do repair -- or -- access to an honest, competent mechanic.
  3. Low expectations. Having little or no need to drive a decent looking car in good condition, and having back-up or alternate means of getting to where you need to be (low reliance on the car).

None of these has to do with buying a NEW car or buying warranties. Sorry for the rant. I was turning right at an intersection and almost rolled out of my TJ and bonked my head on the PDA Phone of a jaywalking lawyer! :D
 
#40 ·
It's really hard to believe that a dealer wouldn't correct something that's possibly a safety issue.

If it's a general warranty, not a warranty given to you by that dealer, take it to Joe Kerley's. If nothing else, just drive it over to them and ask them about the seat.
 
#41 ·
If you purchased the Jeep new, has it been into service 3 times for the same problem? If so, check into the lemon laws of the state. sometimes it is a pain in the ass to deal with but under certian circumstances you can have the state force the dealer to get you a new car. I worked at a dealership (hyundai) where that happened twice for an air bag light problem. but at least at my dealership they were co-operative and did everything to help the customer.
 
#42 ·
I bought it used. The car had a year and a half of use before I bought it -- but it's still under basic warranty.

So, the car is new to me and I reported all of its faults to get them squared away before the basic warranty ran out. Ya'll know Jeeps way more than I do -- perhaps this history will be of interest:

Driver mirror vibrated so badly at times, I couldn't make out cars behind me -- cars like cop cars! LOL!:D The mirror was replaced. Still vibrated. Vibrates to this day. I was told that normal. I let that slide.

The wheel shimmmies on smooth road at EXACTLY 52-55 MPH. Without failure. New street tires. Balanced twice. Still shimmies. I was told that the Mopar steering damper is inherently a poor design. Replaced it. Still shimmies. Then I was told the sterring box was defective. Replaced that. Still shimmies. Finally, I was told that it is normal for Jeeps to shimmy. I let that slide.

There was a noise coming from the throwout bearing. Occurs with the foot off the clutch. Quiets down when the clutch pedal is depressed. Dealer said the throwout bearing and pinion bearings were bad. Replaced them. Noise persists. AFTER that, I was told by a different dealer that the noise is normal in Jeeps and the bearing replacements were not needed. Spoke to two independent mechanics who said it isn't. One thought it was a bearing supporting the tranny output shaft. Opinions varied. I let that slide.

I could go on. I have a bunch of stories about this troubled Jeep. The culmen was the rap the dealer gave me about the seats though. That was one for the highlight film. I'm beining to see why the previous owner got rid of the car after a year and a half. Did I mention water in the trunk? :mad:

I'm a patient person though. I will stick with the car.
 
#61 ·
The Shimmies
Well,my '06 TJ 1,419 miles had a case of the shimmies for about a month,finally took it to be serviced on Wednesday and it was the rotor brake that was bad or they "replaced out round rotors".

The steering wheel would shimmy like it was having a seizure,when applying brakes at 40 mph or more.

Scary as hell if you ask me...it was still under warranty so they were very nice in fixing the problem.
 
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