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Old 04-17-2011, 09:03 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rogerg View Post
Is this a JK Rubicon you speak of? I have re centered my steering wheel many times and its exactly the same as a TJ and surely dont take 2 guys and more than 2 minutes.

Not sure if he meant center, he said "adjust" so who knows what that means. No big deal though


As for TJ vs JK. I cant afford a JK and thats too much money for me to be driving into trees

So thats why the TJ wins for me. plus my color beats anything the jk comes in.

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Old 04-17-2011, 09:46 PM   #32
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I don't like JKs because to build one up you have to have to work backwards and would waste a lot of money on electrical crap I don't need. Like the electronically disconnecting sway bar. No thank you, anti rock is way better.

Tjs are so much easier to work on as well, plus much better aftermarket support.

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Old 04-18-2011, 10:45 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by freeskier View Post
Tjs are so much easier to work on as well, plus much better aftermarket support.
The JK is still too new to have great aftermarket support. In a few years, once it has become more established i'm sure it will be up to par. As for me, I hands down prefer the TJ. I love its simplicity vs. all the electronics and crap they throw into the JK. That said, they are both still very capable.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:59 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
2. All the electronic crap. Tire pressure sensors, steering sensors, electronic throttle, and many many more.
Hand throttle on a TJ $15, hand throttle for a JK $250.00
I'd love to have an electric throttle on the TJ. You could calibrate the sensitivity out of it for crawling and make the first 3/4 throttle input only open the throttle 1/4 of the way. My throttle is a bit twitchy in 4L. I welcome more electronics, but I have the ability to adjust them the way I want, not the idiot proof way the oems do some things.
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:11 PM   #35
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The JK is still too new to have great aftermarket support. In a few years, once it has become more established i'm sure it will be up to par. As for me, I hands down prefer the TJ. I love its simplicity vs. all the electronics and crap they throw into the JK. That said, they are both still very capable.
The Wrangler def. runs on a cycle. Right now the TJ is in it's prime for aftermarket support. The YJ is beginning to wane, and anything older is extremely limited. Eventually the JK will be in it's prime and the TJ will be where the YJ is. However the older a Jeep gets, the better the OEM support is. You could literally build a CJ from a catalog if you wanted to.

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I'd love to have an electric throttle on the TJ. You could calibrate the sensitivity out of it for crawling and make the first 3/4 throttle input only open the throttle 1/4 of the way. My throttle is a bit twitchy in 4L. I welcome more electronics, but I have the ability to adjust them the way I want, not the idiot proof way the oems do some things.
I've driven my moms Mercedes and IMO I absolutely hate the electronic brake/throttle. Between that and its -squishy- transmission there is always a large delay between smashing the pedal down and any response by the engine and downshift.
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:11 PM   #36
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With looks, the TJ wins hands down, it's IMO the best looking Jeep out there. Although I do love the 4-door JK's, they look great and they have the space in them I need to haul a lot. But between the two, the TJ wins because it has the better setup in terms of power and what I need to offroad.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:17 PM   #37
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I've driven my moms Mercedes and IMO I absolutely hate the electronic brake/throttle. Between that and its -squishy- transmission there is always a large delay between smashing the pedal down and any response by the engine and downshift.
that is because it was designed that way for the typical user of those vehicles. Its all calibrateable. You can remove the throttle delay and stiffen up the trans with a proper tune.
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:25 PM   #38
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I looked at both before I bought mo 05 LJ. The price was right on my LJ. Not to mention it already had every thing that I wanted.

Now if they would put a v8 in the jk I would want one.

I'm keeping the TJ until they come out with a LJK with a 260hp motor in it. The JKUs are a bit too big, but it would be good to have a little extra space and power!!! I'm in Colorado, bigger engine would be nice driving up to the trails.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:11 AM   #39
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I tested a JK and wasn't fond of it. Sure the front hardtop comes off in pieces, but I hate the door handles and like others have stated, the plastic that comes on it. Plus who needs a 7 speaker surround bass system in a jeep? Sorry, but I can't fanthom getting all the upgrades (dvd player, 8 disc cd changer, navigation system, etc). A jeep is a jeep. Built to be rugged, not luxurious.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:06 AM   #40
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Ha yea u love when people ask me how jeeps are to drive. I'm like let's see it's not very comfortable, hard shocks, cold, loud, and sometimes wet. It's awesome!!!!
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:03 AM   #41
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Contrary to previous posts, the JK has more HP and Torque than the TJ so I'm not sure why everyone poops on the JK's V6. Is it really because it's also used in a minivan, really? Does the minivan usage take away any of the HP or Torque this engine produces? No. So, why does it matter. Is it possibly a longevity thing? The 4.0 is a tough one and lasts a long time. I'm not sure about the longevity of the 3.8. But, no matter. I'm satisfied.

I love my JK. It has more than enough power to get me through all the off-roading I want to do. My wife's is a TJ and was our 1st Jeep. It's awesome! I really like it too, but I like my JK much more. Of course, mine is the Rubicon and has all the power conveniences I like, but more importantly than that, it's bigger and I am WAY more comfortable in it than I am in the TJ. I'm cramped up like I'm on a commuter airplane when trying to drive the TJ.

I won't go back to a TJ for my Jeep. I'm sticking with the bigger, and IMO, better choice... the JK.

Oh, and I LOVE my killer stereo!!! Awesome sound even with the top and doors off and heading down the highway at 60MPH after an awesome day on the trails. For me, the stereo sealed the deal when we were looking to buy my Jeep. I have to have Hi-Fi sound in whatever I drive. Love it!
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:37 AM   #42
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I love my TJ. It's my DD and my only vehicle. I'm not a vehicle/machine person, so I cannot comment on engines and such.

One of the things that I don't like about the JK are the full plastic fender/flairs and the plastic in general.

I do like the idea of the gas tank not being outside/behind the rear wheel base. I believe the muffler is there on the JK.

I use my TJ as a truck to haul bricks and mulch as I need for my house. I haven't needed a bigger 'truck bed' than this, but it seems like the 4-door JK would offer that.

If I ever have to get a family vehicle, then I'll choose a 4-door JK over a minivan or any other SUV.

About the sound system, I've put marine grade Polk speakers in my TJ and I have a JL 10" sub firing right into the driver seat. I'm extremely happy with that and have no problems hearing/feeling them doorless/topless doing 70 on the highway.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:37 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by TR3YNGLER View Post
Contrary to previous posts, the JK has more HP and Torque than the TJ so I'm not sure why everyone poops on the JK's V6. Is it really because it's also used in a minivan, really? Does the minivan usage take away any of the HP or Torque this engine produces? No. So, why does it matter. Is it possibly a longevity thing? The 4.0 is a tough one and lasts a long time. I'm not sure about the longevity of the 3.8. But, no matter. I'm satisfied.
First off, just because it's rated at more power, doesn't mean it has more useable power. The 3.8 has 205 HP at 5,200 RPM and 240 ft lbs of torque at 4,000 RPM. The 4.0 has 190 hp at 4600 RPM and 230 ft lbs of torque at 3000 RPM.

I'm not saying the 3.8 is a bad engine, but personally, for any vehicle I plan to take off-road or tow anything behind, I'd rather be making my power below 4,000 RPM. Yea the 3.8 may have more power, but if I have to rev it up that high to make it, it's pointless.

New Jeep has our 3.8 engine...Aftermarket hope? [Archive] - The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:54 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Nano
I love my TJ. It's my DD and my only vehicle. I'm not a vehicle/machine person, so I cannot comment on engines and such.

One of the things that I don't like about the JK are the full plastic fender/flairs and the plastic in general.

I do like the idea of the gas tank not being outside/behind the rear wheel base. I believe the muffler is there on the JK.

I use my TJ as a truck to haul bricks and mulch as I need for my house. I haven't needed a bigger 'truck bed' than this, but it seems like the 4-door JK would offer that.

If I ever have to get a family vehicle, then I'll choose a 4-door JK over a minivan or any other SUV.

About the sound system, I've put marine grade Polk speakers in my TJ and I have a JL 10" sub firing right into the driver seat. I'm extremely happy with that and have no problems hearing/feeling them doorless/topless doing 70 on the highway.
We're running Polk speakers in my wife's TJ too but we're missing a sub and amp. Do you have pics of your setup you could share?
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:04 AM   #45
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Contrary to previous posts, the JK has more HP and Torque than the TJ !
It produces more high-end torque but it's low-end torque that is more useful for around town and offroading. Inline engine designs like the 4.0L inherently produce more low-end torque where it is more easily accessible than V6 engines do. That's just a trait of an inline vs. a V-shaped engine design. The 4.0L engine does produce more/better torque at lower rpms than the V6 can which is more useful (especially offroad and around town) for all but high-rpm drivers.

The second chart shows how the 4.0L engine's torque curve is relatively flat compared to the V6 engine in the first chart. The 4.0's torque is pretty much fully developed by 1200 rpms and doesn't drop off until around 4400 rpms. The V6's torque drops off dramatically under 2K rpms and it doesn't peak until 4K rpms. Those are simply traits of an inline six vs. a V6. If you're racing, the V6 is fine but for offroading and around town, the 4.0L is a real beast where its torque is concerned.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:23 AM   #46
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Instead of basing everything on 'feelings", lets see some data. I found these 3.8L dynos on the net.





Hesco's dyno might be a bit generous, but the profile should be accurate.


Here is one from a bone stock 4.0L.



So what one would you rather have? They both have really flat TQ curves.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:27 AM   #47
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It produces more high-end torque but it's low-end torque that is more useful for around town and offroading. Inline engine designs like the 4.0L inherently produce more low-end torque where it is more easily accessible than V6 engines do. That's just a trait of an inline vs. a V-shaped engine design. The 4.0L engine does produce more/better torque at lower rpms than the V6 can which is more useful (especially offroad and around town) for all but high-rpm drivers.

The second chart shows how the 4.0L engine's torque curve is relatively flat compared to the V6 engine in the first chart. The 4.0's torque is pretty much fully developed by 1200 rpms and doesn't drop off until around 4400 rpms. The V6's torque drops off dramatically under 2K rpms and it doesn't peak until 4K rpms. Those are simply traits of an inline six vs. a V6. If you're racing, the V6 is fine but for offroading and around town, the 4.0L is a real beast where its torque is concerned.
They didn't even start the pull until about 2200 rpms on your 3.8L dyno. how can you compare the TQ at 1200 rpms?? Extrapolation does not work on dynos. I'm not even sure those are real dynos because they look more like estimates with perfect curves on the 3.8L. I've seen A LOT of dyno graphs form tons of manufactures, but I've never seen one that looks like the 3.8L one. Even the 4.0L is suspect with the linear hp graph.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Rogerg

Is this a JK Rubicon you speak of? I have re centered my steering wheel many times and its exactly the same as a TJ and surely dont take 2 guys and more than 2 minutes.
How do you center the steering wheel on a tj? Lol
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:18 PM   #49
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We're running Polk speakers in my wife's TJ too but we're missing a sub and amp. Do you have pics of your setup you could share?
I had the amp installed before I did much modding to my Jeep. They installed the amp beneath the rear seat and threw the sub behind it. I have since moved the sub up to fire right into the driver seat, so that I can feel the full force.

I then noticed that I was occasionally hauling stuff and covering my amp up. I decided to build a custom pallet to not only protect my amp but also to ensure some air flow. I left off slats on the bottom for the amp to sit.

For a little security, I installed a door handle to the sub box and I run a cable through the handle and around my roll cage. It's not the most secure, but a thief would need to be carrying around some cable cutters.

Below is the pallet design/use, amp incorporation, and sub location. Oh btw, beware of viscious dog...





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Old 04-24-2011, 06:05 PM   #50
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The new JK's just seem too high tech for me. I love how simple my TJ is. The JK just feels like a regular SUV and not a Jeep.
THIS.

I love my Jeep because of how no-frills it is. I've got a stereo and a center console and not much more. It's as rugged as I need it. I don't worry about bumps and bruises. It's torquey, rides like hell, squeaks like the dickens, and gets me from trail A to trail B in exactly the manner I like it. Plus it's easy to work on

I'm not opposed to the JK. It's much better for towing and the likes, but for the trails I'm riding, I would NEVER have a JK back there. Too long a wheelbase and too new to dent and scratch. When I finally purchase my boat I'll probably be looking into a JKU along with. I'm just waiting for the Pennstar motors to make their debut. That doesn't mean I'm getting rid of the TJ. That's still my Jeep

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