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Old 09-29-2010, 12:27 PM   #31
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So any help on how hard this motor mount lift is?
I wouldn't call it hard. In fact, it was pretty straightforward. Tedious is more like it, especially the driver's side. It would've been easier if I had some help (whether moving or working on the Jeep, most of my "friends" seem to vanish whenever I could use a hand). There are some youtube videos and online tutorials out there that do a pretty good job of explaining it. Thanks to a little bit of research, I had no surprises while putting mine in.

Oh, and I should add that I didn't do the MML specifically because I plan on doing a tummy tuck. While I probably will at some point in the future, the main reason I did the MML was so I didn't have to do a silly and counterproductive Tcase drop along with my suspension lift.

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Old 09-29-2010, 12:33 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Ibuildembig
Afjeepman said he was running 35's on a 2.5...maybe in the mall parking lot
Don't be so quick to judge...I've seen 35's of a stock rubi...I'll find the picture later, but he was running metal cloak arched fenders and it looked nice! And wheeled just as nice

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Old 09-29-2010, 12:35 PM   #33
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I am only judging because we have done it
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:47 PM   #34
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Umm yeah I wanna see pics of it in the woods at full travel....my ole man just got back from CO and he was on some pretty challenging trails for a street jeep and he almost rubbed a few times with a long arm 4.5 and 305 mickeys
Do you adjust your bumpstops properly or just rockem sockem until they rub? No one should have any issues with tire rub if they take the time to measure and test for correct bumpstop length. I'm done talking about what can and can't work because we just hijacked the thread...everyone has their own styles and can make anything work with the right work
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:21 PM   #35
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I wouldn't call it hard. In fact, it was pretty straightforward. Tedious is more like it, especially the driver's side. It would've been easier if I had some help (whether moving or working on the Jeep, most of my "friends" seem to vanish whenever I could use a hand). There are some youtube videos and online tutorials out there that do a pretty good job of explaining it. Thanks to a little bit of research, I had no surprises while putting mine in.

Oh, and I should add that I didn't do the MML specifically because I plan on doing a tummy tuck. While I probably will at some point in the future, the main reason I did the MML was so I didn't have to do a silly and counterproductive Tcase drop along with my suspension lift.
Hmmmmmm, thanks, i'll do some looking up on it. As for your friends vanishing I bet a 12 pack would attract them like bugs to a bug zapper
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Old 09-29-2010, 02:18 PM   #36
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Hmmmmmm, thanks, i'll do some looking up on it. As for your friends vanishing I bet a 12 pack would attract them like bugs to a bug zapper
Oh I know it would. They'd love to sit around and drink and watch me squirm around under my Jeep, lol.

My friends and I + Beer = Absolutely nothing productive
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Old 09-29-2010, 02:42 PM   #37
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Oh I know it would. They'd love to sit around and drink and watch me squirm around under my Jeep, lol.

My friends and I + Beer = Absolutely nothing productive
Been there done that...installed my lift solo while my buddies proceeded to drink the 30 of pbr I got to get them to help!
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:22 PM   #38
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35's on a 2.5 eh? and how much body cut out do you have? we run 4.5 on 33's and still get close to rubbing at full travel.

Rokmen built LJ. 40" MTRs on 2.5" of lift and a 1.25" BL. Rokmen up armor tummy tuck. I'm pretty sure it wheels real good my friend.
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:24 PM   #39
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Gotta be more strategic, hand them out to them as the work gets done, dont give them free reign of the cooler, at least thats what my friends do, dont know why i would NEVER drink the beer and not help
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:25 PM   #40
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Ooooo thats pretty gus
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Old 09-29-2010, 04:20 PM   #41
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Rokmen built LJ. 40" MTRs on 2.5" of lift and a 1.25" BL. Rokmen up armor tummy tuck. I'm pretty sure it wheels real good my friend.
Thanks for posting that...can't really do it from my phone, but that's exactly the rig I was thinking of at one point!
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Old 09-29-2010, 04:46 PM   #42
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Ooooo thats pretty gus
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Thanks for posting that...can't really do it from my phone, but that's exactly the rig I was thinking of at one point!
Many are starting to realize the LCG build is the way to go. But if someone wants to lift their rig to the sky to fit big rubber, then whatever - go for it. Personally, I like the stability of LCG rigs.
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Old 09-29-2010, 04:49 PM   #43
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Thank you gus for backing me up on this...I see no reason at all to have a combined lift (body and suspension) above 4-4.5". Hopefully the guys who aren't interested in the LCG thing can at least accept that it works and there are people that do it successfully every day and you don't have to put a 6" lift in a jeep to fit 33's. But if you want to then go for it and it's your jeep so have fun with it while you're at it! We're jeepers, lets get along!
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:24 PM   #44
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And regarding the original question of the cost of a tummy tuck - when I do mine, (since I've bent my stock skid pretty good already), it will be $345 for the Rokmen skid and I will probably do all 8 ACA which will be another $950 bringing the total to $1295 plus tax (about $103) and shipping (guessing about $75) that comes to $1473. Hopefully since I have an LJ with only 2.75" of lift in front and 2" in back i won't need a SYE/CV. If I pay a shop at $80/hr to do it I'm guessing 6 hrs at least which is $480 in labor. $1953.00 - pretty close to your original estimate.

But that's all 8 control arms. If I need the SYE/CV it will be closer to $2800 I'm sure.

If I did the job myself with a friend, which I will, it is still going to be around $1600 because my mechanic friend works for cash, not beer. He's just way cheaper than a shop - since I help him wrench.

FWIW
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:34 PM   #45
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^and to piggy back on this for the op...if you aren't running a sye and cv drive shaft with a 4" lift then you probably have the tcase lowering kit (I may have read over you saying this) so a tummy tuck, done right, will gain you almost 2.5-3" of centerline clearance which equates to one hell of an increase in breakover angle and is definitely worth it since you don't want to go any higher.
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:55 PM   #46
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Ok now we're getting somewhere LOL. I do have a SYE, CV drive shaft and lower CAs so then all I would need would be the MML, skid plate, Upper CAs? Also if I plan to do a Long arm or short arm kit later on down the road will I have to change anything with this tuck? Trying to figure it out that way I dont pay for some things twice if I can get away with it.
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Old 09-29-2010, 06:09 PM   #47
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Ok now we're getting somewhere LOL. I do have a SYE, CV drive shaft and lower CAs so then all I would need would be the MML, skid plate, Upper CAs? Also if I plan to do a Long arm or short arm kit later on down the road will I have to change anything with this tuck? Trying to figure it out that way I dont pay for some things twice if I can get away with it.
Do the body lift with the MML. Pretty sure long arm kits come with their own skid that the arms attach to, so you would be replacing the belly up t-case skid. If you think you may want to go long arms I suggest you wait on the belly up until you are sure. That LJ on 40s I posted is on short arms BTW. Exhaust modifications may also be needed.
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Old 09-29-2010, 06:46 PM   #48
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Rokmen built LJ. 40" MTRs on 2.5" of lift and a 1.25" BL. Rokmen up armor tummy tuck. I'm pretty sure it wheels real good my friend.
Being from the show me state, I'd have to say show me on the wheeling part. I'd say she's gonna do a ton of rubbing on everything, that's why it needs all the armor. And most people don't wanna have to cut their jeep up, I know if I had one that new I wouldn't.
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Old 09-29-2010, 07:49 PM   #49
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Being from the show me state, I'd have to say show me on the wheeling part. I'd say she's gonna do a ton of rubbing on everything, that's why it needs all the armor. And most people don't wanna have to cut their jeep up, I know if I had one that new I wouldn't.
Well, you are just flat out wrong. Please click on this link and take a look at the pics automatically scroll for you of this LJ flexing off road. This is not that new of a concept. It works really well when built right. Rokmen Gear Up....Rok On

And as far as cutting up the Jeep, it has front tube fenders and rear corner guards. Not that unusual of mods.

Edit: Here is some more pics - I'm showing you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/freakje...7624304248015/

More: http://www.flickr.com/photos/freakje...7624073813515/
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:32 PM   #50
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Hey, Ibuildembig, I live in Cape Girardeau. What a small world.
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:00 PM   #51
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35's on a 2.5 eh? and how much body cut out do you have? we run 4.5 on 33's and still get close to rubbing at full travel.
2.5" suspension and 1.25" bodylift to make room for the tummy tuck.

No rubbing issues.

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Old 09-29-2010, 09:00 PM   #52
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Being from the show me state, I'd have to say show me on the wheeling part. I'd say she's gonna do a ton of rubbing on everything, that's why it needs all the armor. And most people don't wanna have to cut their jeep up, I know if I had one that new I wouldn't.
The main reason to put on a lift is to raise the wheel wells from the center of the axles to fit bigger tires, in turn raising the axles and center skid from the ground. Plus you'd get the added flex from the different springs.

If you can add bigger tires without having to move the fenders up via a lift as well as get a flat center skid, you have in essence done the same thing but without a lift. So why do you say adding a lift is better than doing it without one?
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:31 PM   #53
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Hey, Ibuildembig, I live in Cape Girardeau. What a small world.
Yep sure is man!

Well not that I'm gonna change anyones mind anyway, but I will humor you with my assumption.

The reasons I would rather lift one rather than do a tummy tuck and tube fenders are simple:

1. If its lifted you won't have to spend the money on the tummy tuck and mml etc etc

2. You will essentially have more up travel and therefore more down travel as well since there won't be a need for a rubrail to stop it from travelling its natural arc.

3. Body armor need is decreased significantly since the body is higher off the ground and less likely to rub things.

4. Because the armor and tummy tuck need is decreased the price decreases as well, affording you a better engineered lift kit and other items you need more...ie winch, gps, cb, etc

5. And the last thing I always keep in mind is resale value. A lift kit can be removed without a trace, but all that body armor will leave holes...and drilled holes will end up with rust no matter how you slice it. And, most people want a virgin jeep so they can customize it themselves. I know everyone plans on keeping their jeeps forever, but it has to be sold for one reason or another more than not.

Please keep in mind these claims are not without experience and merit. I have been building crawlers and 4x4 vehicles for 12 years and have had several features in publications.

In closing I will say there is never just one way to do something and more times than not Jeep people tend to live in the box....creating the same recipe over and over. I just want to let people know they have a choice to do or not to do, with sufficient evidence on both sides. The evidence is clearly stated in this thread for pro tummy tucks. I just wanted to give people another way of looking at it.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:21 AM   #54
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Not everybody wants a huge Jeep. A taller lift raises COG and if you're running tight offcamber trails along hillsides, that higher COB could mean the difference between making it and ending up on your roof.

Sorry, I don't like seeing my roof in the mud.

Not to mention not everbody has the budget for the larger lifts and all the other items that are required for that taller lift. If you do it RIGHT, a lot of components need to be swapped out.

I have a 2.5" lift and run 33's. That is as big as I want to go. I have nothing to prove by going bigger and that size lets me run all the trails *I* want to run. If I went taller, my wife couldn't get in the Jeep at all.

The tummy tuck affords me a better breakover angle. To raise my skid up to just 1" below the frame, how much suspension lift would be required to achieve the same breakover angle? Seriously I want to know.

Out in more open areas like the soCal desert, I'm sure a larger rig is just fine. But full widths, huge tires and a 'here's my johnson' lift don't really cut it. More downtravel isn't always good. It's effective downtravel with enough weight on it to actually provide grip.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:22 AM   #55
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Look man, I know you all have your own opinions and that's fine, so do I. I know for a fact there's tons of full width big rigs in Alabama so don't give me the "big rigs don't work here" stuff

To answer your question, breakover angle is contingent on two things. Lift and tire size. Therefore, if you have a 33 and 2.5" lift with a 1" TT and your tire actually measures 33" (which I bet it doesn't) your looking at 16.50 + 2.5 + 1 = 20 inches. Now to get the same angle without the TT is easiest achieved by going to a 35 and doing some body cutout. 17 + 2.5 = 20 inches. If I was to go to a 4" and 33's my BA would be 16.50 + 4 = 20.5 and so on and so forth. That being said, I have a question for you. Tell me what you spent on your 2.5 lift and 1" tummy tuck minus labor.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:39 AM   #56
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Look man, I know you all have your own opinions and that's fine, so do I. I know for a fact there's tons of full width big rigs in Alabama so don't give me the "big rigs don't work here" stuff

To answer your question, breakover angle is contingent on two things. Lift and tire size. Therefore, if you have a 33 and 2.5" lift with a 1" TT and your tire actually measures 33" (which I bet it doesn't) your looking at 16.50 + 2.5 + 1 = 20 inches. Now to get the same angle without the TT is easiest achieved by going to a 35 and doing some body cutout. 17 + 2.5 = 20 inches. If I was to go to a 4" and 33's my BA would be 16.50 + 4 = 20.5 and so on and so forth. That being said, I have a question for you. Tell me what you spent on your 2.5 lift and 1" tummy tuck minus labor.
I'm sorry but that's not BA at all, the key word is angle and in no way do inches equate to an angle. but if you want to do it that way then 17.5+2.5+2=22. and half of 35 is 17.5 not 17. not a big deal tho. The added benefit of the tummy tuck is that the ski plate is a hell of a lot smoother than the stock skid so even if you do rub a rock or tree stump you are more likely to be able to slide yourself across it as apposed to the stock skid which will get you hung up. My biggest argument FOR the LCOG is that if a higher center of gravity was truly better and that going with more lift was the way to go, then why to the pro rock crawlers sit lower than a lot of lifted jeeps and slide their way across a whole mess of nastly obstacles?
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:04 AM   #57
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BA basically means what it takes to overcome a peak without dragging. And without going into tons of calculations it all has to do with lift, tires, weight, spring rate, amount of gear you have, and the weight of the passengers. I agree the LCG is better, but there's not enough difference to the smaller side for me to EVER spend the money on a TT versus a lift kit. To prove my stance on LCG my truggy is 3 inches lower than it was stock with 42's on it. In a nutshell my point is this....for the normal budget jeeper, a basic 3-4" lift kit will be cheaper than a smaller one and a TT and you will end up inititally the same on ground clearance.

BTW, thanks for catching my math error
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:13 PM   #58
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Well glad to know this came to a civil end and to the op yes it can cost that much if you need all the parts and pay someone to do it. I'd like to see pictures of that truggy btw
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Old 10-02-2010, 07:43 PM   #59
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Here ya go


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Old 10-02-2010, 09:03 PM   #60
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Too bad it's a ford . Sorry I'm a bowtie man, but that's a nice looking build

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