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Old 04-07-2012, 10:33 AM   #1
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Post Turbo on my 2.4l!!!!!!!!

ok guys ive seen this done a couple of times, i took notes, and it is now time to do this setup on my rig. i bought a low mileage stock turbo, manifold, and wastegate off of craigslit for a not to shabby 200 bucks..(he was asking 450...cash talks son!!) i have been networking and found that one of my buddies still has EVERY STOCK SRT-4 part from his car for me to come pick up for also a not too shabby 200 bucks. the only issue i have ran into is the decision to cut a little out of the firewall and run the turbo to the rear of the jeep (stock SRT-4 configuration) or find a place that can mill a aluminum manifold adapter so i can run the turbo towards the front of the jeep. i am going to get a transmission oil cooler kit to run my AIR-TO-WATER intercooler. other than that all i have to acquire is a vaccum boost guage, a aftermarket wastegate with a 6-8 psi spring, and a in cabon boost controller. and a blow off valve. other than that the rest of the parts are off my buddies car. please give insight as im sure there are MANY people who post to this forum who are positive this wont work and/or will work. by the way this is being installed on a 2006 2.4l TJ 4" lift on 33's

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Old 04-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #2
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also does anyone know if the oil pressure alone will be enough to send oil to the turbo or will i probibly need to get a 12V oil sending unit to move the oil to and through the turbo. by the way im due for a oil change so ill drop the pan and bung it for the oil return line

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Old 04-07-2012, 11:01 AM   #3
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Subscribed !!! Popcorn anyone !!
This will be Awsome !
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:04 AM   #4
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Sweet!!!! I'll be watchin this build
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:08 AM   #5
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Me to !
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbeast
also does anyone know if the oil pressure alone will be enough to send oil to the turbo or will i probibly need to get a 12V oil sending unit to move the oil to and through the turbo. by the way im due for a oil change so ill drop the pan and bung it for the oil return line
Should be fine I would think.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:15 AM   #7
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any thoughts or atleast any insight on this build anyone?
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:17 AM   #8
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its already set up for an external wastegate..gonna remove that bov and put a decent inline BOV by the throttle body
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:17 AM   #9
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I would think that the regular oil pressure would be fine. Good luck and post up some dyno results!
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:22 AM   #10
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im going to actually post a parts list, pictures of assembly and make this clear so that if anyone wants to do this there will actuall be a detailed explanation of what i had to do to make this work.

timeline:
i picked the turbo up last night
on monday i will get the piping for the turbo and do my first mock up next week
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:58 AM   #11
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I have lots and lots of experience modifying turbocharged vehicles, though most of it was on Dodge Caravans and none of it was on a Jeep. Still, I'll be happy to provide insight where I may.

Tip #1: before you even lift your hood, go out and buy the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. Read it cover to cover at least two or three times. This will give you an idea of everything you'll need to consider and will prove invaluable as you set about creating your custom setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbeast View Post
i am going to get a transmission oil cooler kit to run my AIR-TO-WATER intercooler.
Oil coolers work very well for an air/water setup, so that's not a bad idea. You will want to get a very large one, though. Furthermore, I strongly suggest you go with a stacked plate design rather than a tube type.

Stacked plate type:


Tube type:


Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbeast View Post
other than that all i have to acquire is ... a in cabon boost controller. and a blow off valve.
The in-cabin boost controller is a bad idea, IMO. I've seen numerous people who, in the heat of the moment (read: while racing a faster car) decide they need a little more power... so they go too far and end up blowing the engine. Remove the temptation: either design your system so no boost controller is needed (via careful setup of the wastegate actuator) or else mount the controller in the engine bay.

As for the blow-off valve, the first gen DSM ones are fantastic. They react quickly, flow a lot of air, and are almost free since the DSM guys practically throw them away in their rush to "upgrade" to some shiny aftermarket unit. A stock DSM BOV will not leak (bleed off charge air) until about 20 psi, so it will be well suited to your application.

DSM BOV on my former minivan:


Oh: be sure to mount a filter on the discharge tube! When your engine is under vacuum, the valve will allow air to enter and you don't want to ingest anything harmful.

One more BOV tip: install it on the tube between the turbo and the IC rather than between the IC and the throttle body if at all possible. Doing so will lessen the thermal load on the intercooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbeast View Post
also does anyone know if the oil pressure alone will be enough to send oil to the turbo or will i probibly need to get a 12V oil sending unit to move the oil to and through the turbo.
By nature, turbos do not need lots of oil volume. Not only will your stock pressure be sufficient, you may need to install a restrictor in the oil feed line (depending on the design of the turbo's oil inlet). Too much oil volume will blow past the seals and cause problems. Also, don't forget that the oil return is by gravity feed; this means you must set the angle of the turbo within a window of acceptability. Corky goes over all this very thoroughly, BTW.

What else is on your mind?
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:58 PM   #12
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sherpa youre the greatest bud....ill definately install the bov between the turbo and intercooler, and will just keep the manual boost controller under the hood if its needed. i do have a question about the waste gate. i havent looked into it musch as im trying to arrange the pick up of other necessary parts but should i use a external waste gate im not sure really how the external type works, but have been told the external setup is the best for my project. also is there a place to buy say a wastegate with a 5 or 6 psi spring, because i want to keep the boost around 7 and use a boost controller to make that happen. how do i regulate the amount of boost if i do not have a boost controller as you said above it may be a good idea not to have one at all. thanks
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:02 PM   #13
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just as a update i will be going out this afternoon and explore the posibilities of cutting into the fire wall as i think it will be easier and cheaper than arranging to have this adapter made and waiting for it.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:33 PM   #14
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sherpa youre the greatest bud.
Well I don't know if I'd go that far. In all seriousness, I have been into turbos for far longer than I've been into 'wheeling (though I've never been tempted to combine the two). I have countless minivan tales I could tell....

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should i use a external waste gate im not sure really how the external type works, but have been told the external setup is the best for my project.
An external wastegate is one that is not integrated into the turbocharger's turbine housing. While an external wastegate is best for an all-out race car (because it promotes the absolute most horsepower when done properly), it is not really needed on the vast majority of street-driven vehicles IMO. Especially given the low-boost setup you are creating, are you really going to miss 5 or so horsepower when you're finished? Of course not. For all the added complexity it would bring into the situation, I don't think an external wastegate is really worth the hassle for you.

IIRC, the SRT-4 had an internal wastegate in its factory turbo setup. I would recommend that you continue to use it.

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Originally Posted by yellowbeast View Post
i want to keep the boost around 7 and use a boost controller to make that happen. how do i regulate the amount of boost if i do not have a boost controller as you said above it may be a good idea not to have one at all.
The trick to not needing a boost controller is to precisely set the length of the wastegate actuator's arm. When you lengthen the arm, your max boost level drops; if you shorten the arm, the max boost level rises. It also relies on a certain spring pressure of the actuator's internal spring, so you may end up needing to have a custom actuator made for you. (Your stock actuator spring may cause you to lengthen the arm so much that the wastegate never closes.)

If done properly, all you'll need to do is run a vacuum line to the actuator. By the time you hit your desired maximum boost, the actuator will have the wastegate sufficiently open to prevent your boost from going any higher. It is a simple and very elegant way to go.

Worried about the whole arm lengthening thing? It may not be much of an issue. Ask the SRT-4 guys how much boost they build if they simply plumb full intake pressure to the actuator. It will likely be a small amount (I only get 5 psi on my minivan) and may be close enough to your goal to make you happy.

The downside to this setup (according to some people) is it will slow your boost response somewhat. However, this can actually be a benefit for you because it will make it easier for your ignition retard system to pull back some timing as the boost rises, which will in turn greatly diminish your chance of experiencing detonation (which is a big no-no and will ruin your day in a hurry).
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:12 PM   #15
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ok yea i see. well the turbofold has a modification to run a external so i will just cap off that hole and reinstall the internal wastegate. note it is the stock manifold he just had it modified to run an external wastegate if you wanted to. i have been looking everywhere to see what the stock psi output that wastegate can handle and all i can find is ricers talking about how to get it to hold more boost, no ome really seems to know how or what the tolerance of boost psi that stock wastegate can handle. my thing is that im trying to precisely manage the boost to no more than 8 psi to ensure no mechanichal failure to my engine or components. so, if you were me what would you do in order to ensure that there would be no more than 8 psi of boost going into the engine. thanks again.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:23 PM   #16
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The SRT4 stock Waste gate has around a 5lb spring in it. The computer controls a solenoid to go beyond that in boost. I would also suggest keeping with an internally gated setup for simplicity sake. You can get a used turbofold for around $50-75 thats not modified.

For really low boost levels, I would also stay away from boost controllers, as boost controllers are designed more for higher boost pressures..although you could do a 4lb spring with a boost controller set to 9lbs and it would build boost quicker and hold it more steady, just adds cost and complexity and with your goals, not really required.

I would also incorporate a safety incase you lose fuel pressure, boost goes to high, etc.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:39 PM   #17
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so, if you were me what would you do in order to ensure that there would be no more than 8 psi of boost going into the engine.
I would run a vacuum line from the intake manifold (or even the turbo compressor's output barb, if there is one) directly to the actuator's barb. Oh, and I'd ease into the throttle the first few times while verifying proper air:fuel ratio, spark retard, etc.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:48 PM   #18
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can the springs be swapped in the stock wastegate to say the 4-5 psi spring? or does it require buying a completely new different wastegate? and although it is a little more complex my idea was to go with a 4lb spring with a boost controller set to 9lbs or so. so yea i guess my last question is just that are the springs interchangable?
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:58 PM   #19
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can the springs be swapped in the stock wastegate to say the 4-5 psi spring? or does it require buying a completely new different wastegate? and although it is a little more complex my idea was to go with a 4lb spring with a boost controller set to 9lbs or so. so yea i guess my last question is just that are the springs interchangable?
At least in regard to the turbos I have used, the actuator is a sealed (welded, epoxied, whatever) unit. You would need to select a different spring during the assembly process. Could you cut it open, change the spring, and epoxy it back together? Maybe. Have I ever tried it? Nope.

And, yes, you can always add a controller to raise the boost above what the actuator spring will provide on its own. (I have run as high as 24 psi on my minivan....)
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:46 PM   #20
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I have lots and lots of experience modifying turbocharged vehicles, though most of it was on Dodge Caravans and none of it was on a Jeep.
You used to Turbo mini-vans? Bad ass!
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:31 PM   #21
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That's what I was thinking.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:41 PM   #22
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You used to Turbo mini-vans? Bad ass!
Probably because that motor I think is the same as the srt4 motor. Just non turbo. Heard alot of people do motor swaps with mini vans and boost them
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:12 PM   #23
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Probably because that motor I think is the same as the srt4 motor.
I wish! About the only thing in common between my minivan's 2.5L SOHC engine and the 2.4L DOHC SRT-4 engine is the number of pistons. Seriously.

At least the Wrangler's 2.4L PowerTech engine shares its basic design with the SRT-4 engine, and (I expect) that will offer some assistance to the OP in his quest for turbo power.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:12 PM   #24
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:09 AM   #25
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ok just spent the after noon figuring out the plan for this install. it is possible to cut into the fire wall and run the turbo towards the rear, however looks to be alot more of a pain in my ass. so i got the design all done as i am a wiz at AUTO CAD, and am just waiting to recieve my aluminum stock so i can mill this adapter. once the adapter is in ill be throwing it all on in a weekend as im going to have all my duckies in a row so when the time comes i can do the entire install. I WILL BE USING ALL 2006 SRT-4 PARTS NO MOTOR SWAP. JUST GOING TO INSTALL THE PARTS ON MY EXHISTING ENGINE.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:37 AM   #26
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Now that I'm home from work, I had a chance to look up some info from the SRT-4. Good thing I did, because I had forgotten a few details which are very relevant to this project.

For starters, the OEM setup incorporates the exhaust manifold and the turbine housing into a single piece of cast iron. (I feel silly for missing this, because it is obvious when I take another look at the photos you posted near the beginning of this thread.) Assuming the turbine housing is not clockable--and it doesn't appear to be--your options for exact turbo placement may be extremely limited, as in you may have no choice but to install it as it sits.

I just read that the SRT-4's wastegate is somehow integrated into the exhaust manifold portion of the cast iron asembly rather than the turbine housing itself. While this would mean the wastegate is external by the strictest definition of the term, it isn't as external as you would normally expect. I guess what I'm saying is, it sounds like a better design than a traditional internal wastegate. Assuming that is the case, I'd say you are far better off to use it rather than the "external" wastegate your friend added to the manifold (which I think I see in the second photo you posted--if it is the part hanging down between cylinders #1 and #2, that seems to be a relatively poor design which will promote reversion).

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so i got the design all done as i am a wiz at AUTO CAD, and am just waiting to recieve my aluminum stock so i can mill this adapter.
What are you doing with this aluminum adapter, exactly? Is it for the compressor inlet?
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:19 AM   #27
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He is flipping the manifold to run the turbo to the front.
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:26 PM   #28
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this picture shows the exact exhaust manifold adapter made to flip the manifold upside down. and i am aware the turbo is pinned but all i am going to do is drill and replace the pin 180 degrees opposite its current location thus allowing me to clock the turbo 180 degrees placing the oil inlet hose on the top with the turbo facing forward.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:35 AM   #29
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Okay, that is an elegant solution. Very nice!

BTW: have you already engineered the installation of the turbo support brace?
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:06 PM   #30
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i have not considered that much at the moment...any ideas?

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