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Old 10-28-2008, 09:13 AM   #1
that's what she said

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Valve Tap

I've got some valve tap in my TJ. i want to know if there is anything i can do for this. I've tried Lucas Oil and Engine Restore, neither of which worked. is there any other additive that might work or am i going to have to replace the lifter?. OR should i just keep dealing w/ it. it doesnt bother me i just dont want it to be problematic down the road.

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Old 10-28-2008, 10:45 AM   #2
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pull the valve cover and try putting marvel mystery oil on the valves and springs. if that doesnt do it and it gets really bad just go have the head reworked.

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Old 10-28-2008, 11:25 AM   #3
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Change your oil to synthetic, or just do a 50/50 of oil and mobil-1 'high mileage' it has higher zddp levels than the normal and extended drain oils. The zddp is what lubricates the cam and valve train. The syn will clean the lifters over time, better than hitting it with a motor flush which can really gum up the oil pick up on the pump. The newer oils have had the zddp levels cut in half.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:33 AM   #4
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Changing to synthetic won't help reduce valve noise. At least not in my experience or opinion. What kind of oil filter are you running? Fram by any chance?
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:47 AM   #5
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Changing to synthetic won't help reduce valve noise. At least not in my experience or opinion. What kind of oil filter are you running? Fram by any chance?
Jerry, you said the F word.. please don't use that around here.. its scary....
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:50 AM   #6
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Jerry, you said the F word.. please don't use that around here.. its scary....
Please don't ban me, I promise to try to avoid using it again in the future.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:59 AM   #7
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Change your oil to synthetic, or just do a 50/50 of oil and mobil-1 'high mileage' it has higher zddp levels than the normal and extended drain oils. The zddp is what lubricates the cam and valve train. The syn will clean the lifters over time, better than hitting it with a motor flush which can really gum up the oil pick up on the pump. The newer oils have had the zddp levels cut in half.
Do all "high mileage" oils have zddp? Back in late August I purchased my Jeep and it had a noticeable tick at idle. When I got it home I changed all fluids in the tranny, t-case, diffs and also did an oil change with Castrol high mileage 10w-30. It's been about 1000 miles since I've had the Castrol in the engine and the tick is now gone. From what I could tell the prior owner went to one of those Valvoline quick lubes. At least the filter was stickered Valvoline. Regardless, my engine is a lot quieter now.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jgano23 View Post
I've got some valve tap in my TJ. i want to know if there is anything i can do for this. I've tried Lucas Oil and Engine Restore, neither of which worked. is there any other additive that might work or am i going to have to replace the lifter?. OR should i just keep dealing w/ it. it doesnt bother me i just dont want it to be problematic down the road.
How many miles on the motor? Is the tapping sound real loud or does it sound like a fuel injector pulse? There is an acceptable amount of background valve train chatter but it should not be discernable.

A sticky lifter or a loose rocker arm can be easily rectified. If you have a lot of miles on the motor (more than 100K), I would consider new hydraulic lifters unless you find you have a loose rocker arm. Just my .02
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:17 PM   #9
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Please don't ban me, I promise to try to avoid using it again in the future.
I will let it slide this time, but I will be watching... when I am not busy, or have nothing else to do, and not around dinner time, maybe snack time..maybe...

As for the issue at hand, could be nothing to worry about or it could be a problem that is building. I guess maybe have it looked at, and that way you will at least know what your dealing with.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Changing to synthetic won't help reduce valve noise. At least not in my experience or opinion. What kind of oil filter are you running? Fram by any chance?
I usually use Fram or Napa Gold. I didnt now they weren't good. what do you recommend for next time?

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How many miles on the motor? Is the tapping sound real loud or does it sound like a fuel injector pulse? There is an acceptable amount of background valve train chatter but it should not be discernable.

A sticky lifter or a loose rocker arm can be easily rectified. If you have a lot of miles on the motor (more than 100K), I would consider new hydraulic lifters unless you find you have a loose rocker arm. Just my .02
It's an '05 4.0L w/ 58,200 miles (i'm orig owner so i know the history of it). its pretty noticeable at idle. i was very lax in my oil changing policies for a while. but now i change it every 3K religiously (hind sight is 20/20, eh).
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:43 PM   #11
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I usually use Fram or Napa Gold. I didnt now they weren't good. what do you recommend for next time?.
Napa Gold is fine but I wouldn't use F***. Fram (ok, the 'F-word' ) has earned a reputation in recent years for having a leak-prone valve inside that can cause valve clatter at startup. When that valve leaks, it allows the oil in the engine's top end where the valves are to drain back down into the crankcase which can allow a noisy start until oil can get back up into where the valves are again. If you're currently running a Fram filter, try changing it to something else like a Purolator PureOne, AC-Delco Duraguard, or a Napa Gold and see if it helps. Fram's reputation is widely sold and heavily advertised but in my strongest possible personal opinion, their quality reputation among gear-heads has taken a nose-dive since they were bought out by Allied-Signal years ago.

Here's an interesting oil filter study if you're interested. http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfi...lterstudy.html Its comments on Fram are interesting.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:01 PM   #12
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thanks jerry, i always appreciate your input. so pretty much, it would be more useful for me to use an empty pepsi can than a F**M? I'll get the same filtering abilities with a more refreshing taste.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:14 PM   #13
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... so pretty much, it would be more useful for me to use an empty pepsi can than a F**M? I'll get the same filtering abilities with a more refreshing taste.
Heh, you fit in real nicely here jagano23.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:19 PM   #14
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Heh, you fit in real nicely here jagano23.
x2 - refreshing change...
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:34 PM   #15
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Heh, you fit in real nicely here jagano23.
I was actually thinking the same. jagano, i have heard you mention you husband is also a jeeper. any chance well see him snooping around here? its always nice do have new people with some good insight..
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:44 PM   #16
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you probably wont see him on this forum. he posts on jeepcommander.com. he is adamag25 on that one. the commander forum is really different form this one. you'll see threads like "how do i change a spark plug?" and you'll see responses like "you should probably take back it to the dealership." my husband is usually the one posting the helpful info, he's kinda like the jerry of that site.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:20 PM   #17
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you probably wont see him on this forum. he posts on jeepcommander.com. he is adamag25 on that one. the commander forum is really different form this one. you'll see threads like "how do i change a spark plug?" and you'll see responses like "you should probably take back it to the dealership." my husband is usually the one posting the helpful info, he's kinda like the jerry of that site.
well i hope im never the "how do you change a spark plug?" guy on this forum. good to have you though
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:37 PM   #18
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well, there's nothing wrong with being the "how do ya change your spark plug guy" it just seems like most of those guys are like that. none of them seem to be firm believers in "owner built, owner operated" they are more like "owner retarded, dealer fixed."
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:20 PM   #19
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well, there's nothing wrong with being the "how do ya change your spark plug guy" it just seems like most of those guys are like that. none of them seem to be firm believers in "owner built, owner operated" they are more like "owner retarded, dealer fixed."
well i guess i just cant get rid of the feeling that if i do it myself i know its right. i have trouble trusting people with my pride and joy. to each his/her own though
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:22 PM   #20
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here, here!!
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:00 PM   #21
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Hey, Don't make fun of the "how do you change a sparkplug" guy. 20 years ago I was that guy. I didn't have anyone to teach me how to work on my cars and trucks. I slowly learned, asking a lot of questions, reading manuals and making a few mistakes. I've done ALL my own mods on my Jeep. I'll admit I'm no professional, but I admire ANYONE who is willing to work and try to learn. The satisfaction of doing your own work is priceless.
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:47 AM   #22
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Well said Joe. Im sure at one point we were ALL that guy. It takes time and experience to gain knowledge and know-how. Only way to get there is ask questions and/or learn by mistake (or possibly success).
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:21 AM   #23
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i wasn't making fun or the spark plug guy i was actually making fun of the responses. Its not that no one can fit it themselves its that no one WANTS to. With every "how to" post there are at least 3 guys that say take it back to the dealership. The commander guys still fall under the "jeep guy" umbrella they are just a different sub-group. my husband started an offroad commander club through the commander forum (i tag along and get razzed for my cj7) and i've met some of the guys from that forum and they are a really nice and fun, but they can sometimes be a little to worried about their precious commanders to try certain obstacles. At the last trail ride one of the commanders started overheating because there was a lot of mud in the radiator, so the guy had to blast the heat (it was 75 deg. outside), but he had mud and sand all over his tinted windows so he didnt want to roll them down b/c it would scratch them. He spent at least 2 hours getting off the trail and to the car wash with the heat on full blast and the windows up. His brother actually jumped out to ride with me. It was hilarious. There again, i like the guy and think he's awesome, but he's a different breed of jeep guy. Luckily my husband is a commander guy with a wrangler guy heart. There is no way he would take his "baby" back to a dealer or mechanic, he's a do-it-yourselfer through & through.
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:00 AM   #24
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Good man!
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:34 PM   #25
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The Commander is a new enough model that it is probably still under warantee. If the dealership will fix it for free....LET THEM. FREE is the BEST price...You can't fix it yourself for cheeper than FREE. It you're just lazy and willing to pay stealership prices you're a nerd.
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:54 PM   #26
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you have a good point joe. i just asked my husband and he has informed me that most of these guys fall into the "nerd" catagory.

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