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Old 01-23-2009, 07:27 AM   #31
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Well why not just drop one of these in there and call it a day.



Viper V-10, It has been done.

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Old 01-23-2009, 07:32 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExDementia View Post
As much as the American in me wants to believe that, it just isn't true. Look at Ferrari's and Lambo's, a small V8 with a ton of power.

I would personally do a V8 swap over stroking the motor. The I6 already gets bad mileage for its displacement, my 4.0 OHV Ford Ranger got around 18 mpg's and it was faster than my Jeep. I have been checking around at various junkyards and you can find a good, 40K to 75K mileage Chevy 5.3 for around 900-1000$ out of a 1500 series truck. Or you can get the 350 (5.7) out of a Suburban/Express/
Silverado for about the same price... WITH A WARRANTY! Then buy a complete conversion kit for 1200-1400$ and do the labor in your garage. Go to Novak Jeep Conversions - Home and they will tell you everything you need to know. They make it very easy because they only do swaps for Jeeps and they have a huge knowledge base on their web site. Here's a very complete installation guide into a TJ, and they have them for just about every other Jeep made. Within the next couple years I will be buying a beater car and doing this swap, if your doing the work, why not go big and be happy. (BTW people who have done these small-block GM v8 swaps typically get around 16 mpg city... pretty good for 280+HP and 335ft-lbs TQ!!)

in a realistic world i am sure our friend here is no enzo farrari and i am sure he won't shell out 300,000 grand for an engine!!! your right when there are no limits on $$$ but i can go to a junkyard here and get the whole engine for like 900 bucks!

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Old 01-23-2009, 08:05 AM   #33
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from what a have gathered in info, you sould get about the same miles per gallon. does require regearing. if you don't regear i'm pretty sure your gas is going to be around 11-13 mpg for the 4.6. just a heads up. i'm slowly piecing together a 4.7 myself.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:34 PM   #34
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in a realistic world i am sure our friend here is no enzo farrari and i am sure he won't shell out 300,000 grand for an engine!!! your right when there are no limits on $$$ but i can go to a junkyard here and get the whole engine for like 900 bucks!
I agree with you about Ferrari, but look at cars like the Mitsubishi Evolution, a 2.0 4 cylinder that makes around 300HP. Or the SRT-4 Neon, (God I hate this car) makes 230HP and 245ft-lbs of torque with a 2.4L. And then in another extreme case, the Nissan GT-R, a 3.8l V6 that makes near 500HP, and if you didn't see my previous thread on the Ford RS200, you will see a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder that makes 450HP.

Now I would much rather take a Mustang over any of those mentioned, I really do hate tuners, all those crappy civics running around piss me off as much, if not more than the next guy but we have to face facts here: (I will correct the saying for you.) "There's no replacement for efficiency"

When people make the most out of big blocks is when you really see something amazing though. Too bad the only practical application for those is in funny cars or the like.

*Disclaimer* Seriously, I really hate tuners. Why spend a ton of money making a Civic fast when you can buy a stock Mustang (or other real sports car.) and already be at that level, then spend your money on making that even faster?
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In video games, the bad guy's bullets travel much slower than the good guy's bullets.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
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*Disclaimer* Seriously, I really hate tuners. Why spend a ton of money making a Civic fast when you can buy a stock Mustang (or other real sports car.) and already be at that level, then spend your money on making that even faster?
Mustangs handle like a big fat pig dude (since they are). A big engine with horrible suspension design and geometry does NOT make a good sports car.

Now if you want something to race wannabees on the traffic lights, then you should be set but if you want something for the track where the real fun is.. rip out that 302 and the rest of the drive train and crush the rest of the mustang for scrap.

I dont like civics but i have driven both and a civic handles much better than a mustang. It obviously does not have the acceleration stock but thats another story.

dont forget a 400 doesnt allways beat 300
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:33 PM   #36
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Mustangs handle like a big fat pig dude (since they are). A big engine with horrible suspension design and geometry does NOT make a good sports car.

Now if you want something to race wannabees on the traffic lights, then you should be set but if you want something for the track where the real fun is.. rip out that 302 and the rest of the drive train and crush the rest of the mustang for scrap.

I dont like civics but i have driven both and a civic handles much better than a mustang. It obviously does not have the acceleration stock but thats another story.

dont forget a 400 doesnt allways beat 300

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Old 01-23-2009, 05:41 PM   #37
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Sorry dude the truth hurts.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:08 PM   #38
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Mustangs handle like a big fat pig dude (since they are). A big engine with horrible suspension design and geometry does NOT make a good sports car.

Now if you want something to race wannabees on the traffic lights, then you should be set but if you want something for the track where the real fun is.. rip out that 302 and the rest of the drive train and crush the rest of the mustang for scrap.

I dont like civics but i have driven both and a civic handles much better than a mustang. It obviously does not have the acceleration stock but thats another story.

dont forget a 400 doesnt allways beat 300
I never said anything about handling, I was just talking about drag racing, straight line, not many people do much else with their souped up cars. I know a Mustang has bad handling, but it does one thing very well, going fast in a straight line. How many people do you see actually racing their cars around a track? Then how many people do you see who just drag race their cars?

I just used a Mustang as an example of an inexpensive sports car (and yes it is a sports car) with big power, maybe I should have used the Pontiac G8 or Nissan Z.

The point is, most civics that rolled off the lot had less than 120HP, (new ones not included.) With all the money a civic owner would have to spend to get their car up to a Mustangs level, you could give the Mustang some good suspension work and have a little left over to beef up the engine.

I used to foolishly race my 94 Ranger with 275K miles, and it beat most people at my work: 04 Sentra S, 98 Golf GTI, 02 Focus, and surprisingly the closest match was an 03 Echo that this guy was 'souping up', he spend close to $2.5K on that thing and I still beat him.

*Disclaimer #2* I realize this was stupid to do, I am not bragging about it at all, I'm just showing that even my old and slow stock Ranger (on 32" MT/R's) could beat these things in their stock form If you are going to 'soup' something up, why not start off with a faster car?
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Quote:
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In video games, the bad guy's bullets travel much slower than the good guy's bullets.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:58 PM   #39
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I never said anything about handling, I was just talking about drag racing, straight line, not many people do much else with their souped up cars. I know a Mustang has bad handling, but it does one thing very well, going fast in a straight line. How many people do you see actually racing their cars around a track? Then how many people do you see who just drag race their cars?

I just used a Mustang as an example of an inexpensive sports car (and yes it is a sports car) with big power, maybe I should have used the Pontiac G8 or Nissan Z.

The point is, most civics that rolled off the lot had less than 120HP, (new ones not included.) With all the money a civic owner would have to spend to get their car up to a Mustangs level, you could give the Mustang some good suspension work and have a little left over to beef up the engine.

I used to foolishly race my 94 Ranger with 275K miles, and it beat most people at my work: 04 Sentra S, 98 Golf GTI, 02 Focus, and surprisingly the closest match was an 03 Echo that this guy was 'souping up', he spend close to $2.5K on that thing and I still beat him.

*Disclaimer #2* I realize this was stupid to do, I am not bragging about it at all, I'm just showing that even my old and slow stock Ranger (on 32" MT/R's) could beat these things in their stock form If you are going to 'soup' something up, why not start off with a faster car?

You can make any car fast, you can make any car handle better, it just takes money. I've seen Jeep Wranglers with viper motors and smart cars with hayabusa motors. Everyone has there own idea of what is cool and fast, I am personally not a fan of most foreign cars, or most new cars in general. I will never own a honda civic or a mustang, there just not my thing. There are a small % of honda civics and mustangs that can keep up with my '70 Cutlass 442 with it's 468 big block pushing 600ft lbs of torque or my cbr600rr that weighs 400lbs and has 120hp, but there are a few, there is always something faster, always something that can handle better.

Buy what you think is cool, build it the way you want to build it, do the work yourself our it's not your car, it's some other guys car that you bought.

Let's get back to the Jeeps before the moderators yell at us again lol

You don't need a lot of horsepower for a jeep, you need a lot of torque, the best way to make torque is with more displacement and a longer stroke.

There's no replacement for displacement.

A big block motor would be amazing in a jeep, lots of displacement, long stroke, tons of bottom end torque, the only problem is, they weigh a lot and they take up a lot of space, a Jeep isn't happy about either of those things, I'm not saying it cant be done, because I've seen it, but it's not practical.

The next best thing, a small block, my preference is a Chevy, but any will work, if you get an aluminum block then it will be lighter than the iron block 4.0 in the TJs, and if you put a 4L60E overdrive trans behind it your going to end up with more power and better gas mileage. If your not worried about gas mileage or driving your jeep on the street and you just want it to off road, then there's no point in an engine swap, throw 5.88 gears in the axles and call it a day.

I run a big block 427 in my Chevy pickup because it's sitting on 44" tires and it has a big fat pig of a 14 bolt rear axle, the thing weighs a couple tons, it needs the torque to turn the tires, if your pushing a little TJ with some 35" tires and Dana 44 axles a stock Chevy 350 will throw that Jeep anywhere you point it.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:30 AM   #40
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The import vs domestic debate can go on non stop. Lets look at the facts here. You have bad experience with domestics, now every domestic is ghay, you have bad experience with import, now every import is also ghay. I've heard it all especially on youtube and streetfire. They are 2 different species and they both have weaknesses, they both have their strengths. You rip a part out of this one, you put it in the other one and you have something thats better than both.

As the engine swap and the amount of work required, at least go with something thats worthy..

A work of art
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:07 AM   #41
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Cummins I6?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff@Bestop View Post
In video games, the bad guy's bullets travel much slower than the good guy's bullets.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:56 AM   #42
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diesel is where its at these days! the engine is built from the factory, just turn up the boost and add a programmer and you are set, i've seen a twin turbo cummins put out 2,000 ft/lb of torque and 1,200 something hp! i've also seen one where the boost was up too 101 psi!!!!!!! i don't know how much power it made but i'm sure it was larger than the numbers above!
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:09 PM   #43
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Cummins I6?
yes sir, you guessed it

505 lbs.ft at 1600 rpm is nice.

time to clean off the keyboard.
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:39 PM   #44
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yes sir, you guessed it

505 lbs.ft at 1600 rpm is nice.

time to clean off the keyboard.
Damn, that's a lot of torque and that's very low in the rpm band.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff@Bestop View Post
In video games, the bad guy's bullets travel much slower than the good guy's bullets.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:55 PM   #45
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The import vs domestic debate can go on non stop. Lets look at the facts here. You have bad experience with domestics, now every domestic is ghay, you have bad experience with import, now every import is also ghay. I've heard it all especially on youtube and streetfire. They are 2 different species and they both have weaknesses, they both have their strengths. You rip a part out of this one, you put it in the other one and you have something thats better than both.

As the engine swap and the amount of work required, at least go with something thats worthy..

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Old 01-24-2009, 08:02 PM   #46
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:38 PM   #47
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anyone see the jk on you tube with the 6.1 liter srt motor. got to have one. it would be insane
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:39 PM   #48
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also has anyone done the research on putting a hemi in a tj. all i can find is pay for it instructions on the net.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:47 PM   #49
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I got one better I want the ford motor. Cosworth 1.8L v-8 revs to 20,000 rpms. Makes 800 horsepower and 650 ft torque! That is my motor!
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:00 PM   #50
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You can fit just about any motor into a TJ, it just comes down to how much time and money do you want to spend on the conversion.

Companies make conversion packages for small block V8s and you can stroke a 4.0, there's always the supercharger option.

Just about every other option will cost you an arm and a leg and will take you a very long time to complete.

There's a lot of options that are complete overkill in a jeep running 37" tires, like something pushing 650ft lbs of torque, there's just no need and you will have to build everything else up on the jeep, so much that it wont even be a jeep anymore, it will be a full sized pickup with a shortened frame and a jeep body sitting on it.

If were being real here, then you can go for a small block V8, a supercharged 4.0, or a stroked 4.0

There are other options, there just not worth it unless you get a setup for next to nothing.

If you already have a big block, a trans, 1 ton axles and you can do most of the modifications yourself, then go for it, if not, good luck...
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:17 AM   #51
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also has anyone done the research on putting a hemi in a tj. all i can find is pay for it instructions on the net.
uck dude, so you can get even worse mpg? Hemi is only good for offroad rig only or if you own a gas station but otherwise for a dd you will pay to feed that thing out the behind.
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I got one better I want the ford motor. Cosworth 1.8L v-8 revs to 20,000 rpms. Makes 800 horsepower and 650 ft torque! That is my motor!
your clutch would just love it when slipping at 15k rpm. That motor will be lucky to make 100hp and 100lbs.ft under 10k rpm. worse yet, your engine will love the superior cooling it gets at 2 mph crawling.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:53 AM   #52
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:11 AM   #53
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in about 4 years i want to throw a 6.1l hemi in my charger and put my 5.7l hemi in my wrangler =D one of the guys in my jeep club is friends with the guys who run aev and truck master designs.. he had a bad@$$ unlimited hemi wrangler he sold and built both a brute and a 4door jk
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:15 AM   #54
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Actually the Cosworth makes great power across the board. Then you can toss some 6.13's in it and not worry about running out of the power band for freeway driving!
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:47 AM   #55
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we're talking about jeeps here, horse power is utterly useless for what we do.
you need something with torque at the lowest possible RPM.

lets clear this up really quick about the horsepower/torque issue.
your engine only produces as much rotational power(torque) as it's allowed to by many variables. this torque # is how much power your engine actually makes per revolution.

horsepower on the other hand is merely a mathematical representation of torque versus rpm. more RPM= more horsepower
but your engine isn't actually "getting stronger" its still putting out the same amount of torque, it's just putting more power strokes into the equation .(yes i know, its a basic example)


sure those little ricer engines can put up big numbers, hell you could put one of those 500 HP hondas in an 18 wheeler if you wanted, but you'd have to run the thing at 10,000 RPM to produce the same amount of energy a detroit can do off idle. now run that honda at 10k rpm and full load(think 60k pound trailer) and tell me how long it lasts?
what we need is a nice diesel engine. problem is they're heavy, expensive, and many of the new ones are over-complicated due to emissions crap.
my idea of the perfect engine would be a cummins 4bt. 200+ horse and 400+ torque is easily(and reliably) obtainable. weight is the obvious pitfall(its about 700 pounds dry) and the many modifications that entails. throw in a nv 4500, np241HD case, axles, armor and your springs are severely sagged. its goes on, and on, and on.

in the end FWIW, jeeps arent made to go fast, just put on the super low gears and spend the money you'll save on the wife.. she'll be happy and it'll give you some bonus points to use down the road(thats what im doing for now).
If you're single(or have an amazing woman) and want something to do. we'll you know what i'd be putting under the hood
im thinking of just leaving the jeep alone and turning my dodge into a tube buggy. its already got the diesel, tranny, tcase, dana 60/80 combo etc etc.

just my opinion, its worth what you paid for it.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:30 PM   #56
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4.6L Low-buck, low CR "rockcrawler"

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Silvolite UEM-2229 +0.030" bore pistons
Increase piston dish volume to 30cc
8.75:1 CR
Crane #750501 192/204 degree camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.035"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.058" quench height
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 39psi FPR for '87-'95 engines, stock injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
234hp @ 4500rpm, 311lbft @ 3300rpm

4.5L "Poor man's" simple stroker

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Sealed Power 677CP standard bore pistons
9.2:1 CR
Stock 4.0 camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.088" quench height
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 39psi FPR for '87-'95 engines, stock injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
247hp @ 4900rpm, 300lbft @ 3500rpm

4.5L Low-buck simple stroker

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Jeep 4.0L 3.875" standard bore pistons
9.7:1 CR
CompCams #68-231-4 206/214 degree camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Stock 0.051" head gasket
0.081" quench height
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with adjustable FPR or MAP adjuster for '87-'95 engines, Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
266hp @ 4950rpm, 322lbft @ 3500rpm

4.6L Low-buck stroker

Option 1: Same as above except:
Speed Pro H825CP +0.030" bore pistons
9.6:1 CR
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.081" quench height*
265hp @ 4900rpm, 325lbft @ 3500rpm

Option 2: Same as "rockcrawler" except:
Piston dish volume 22cc
9.5:1 CR
Crane #753905 204/216 degree camshaft
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with adjustable FPR or MAP adjuster for '87-'95 engines, Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
262hp @ 4800rpm, 325lbft @ 3500rpm

4.7L medium-buck stroker

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.0L 6.125" rods
Keith-Black Silvolite UEM-KB944 +0.060" bore forged pistons
9.5:1 CR
Crane #753905 204/216 degree camshaft
Ported big valve 2.02"/1.60" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.020"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.051" quench height
Flometrics F&B 68mm billet TB
Accel 26lb/hr injectors with adjustable FPR or MAP adjuster for '87-'95 engines, Accel 26lb/hr injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines.
269hp @ 4800rpm, 334lbft @ 3400rpm

4.8L medium-buck stroker

Option 1: Same as above except:
Custom 4.0" bore pistons with 1.38" pin height & 23cc dish
10.0:1 CR
CompCams #68-235-4 210/218 degree camshaft
284hp @ 4900rpm, 345lbft @ 3600rpm

Option 2: Same as Option 1 except:
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods bushed for 0.912" floating pin
Small Block Ford UEM-KB364 hypereutectic pistons
Mill block deck 0.017"
0.051" quench height
4.9L high-buck stroker

3.98" offset-ground stroker crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Small Block Chevy UEM-KB142 hypereutectic pistons
10.5:1 CR
Crane #753941 216/228 degree camshaft
Ported big valve 2.02"/1.60" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.017"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.053" quench height
Flometrics F&B 68mm billet TB
3.0" exhaust system
Ford 30lb/hr injectors with adjustable FPR or MAP adjuster for '87-'95 engines, Ford 30lb/hr injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines.
Custom PCM programming
300hp @ 5000rpm, 354lbft @ 3700rpm

5.0L Very high-buck stroker

4.06" offset-ground stroker crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Small Block Chevy UEM-KB142 hypereutectic pistons
11.1:1 CR
Crane #751111 238/248 degree solid lifter cam
Ported big valve 2.02"/1.60" cylinder head
OEM 0.051" head gasket
0.038" quench height
Flometrics F&B 68mm billet TB
3.0" exhaust system
Ford 30lb/hr injectors with adjustable FPR or MAP adjuster
Custom PCM programming
328hp @ 5250rpm, 375lbft @ 3800rpm
any ideas on how much it would cost to do the 4.7L stroker? or how about the 4.8L medium buck stroker?
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Old 07-30-2010, 06:37 PM   #57
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Damn, your Humvee must be fast because you were really hauling ass when I passed you in my HEMI Wrangler. A little humor.
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:38 PM   #58
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Buy a 572 crate engine from GM Performance Parts.Buy a wrecked 1-ton GM 4x4.Get all the running gear out from under it.Modify to fit,then install under Jeep.Lastly,install the 572 crate motor.Now you have the baddest Jeep known to man!
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Old 07-31-2010, 12:00 AM   #59
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I am in the process of stroking mine to 4.7 ... Waiting on IC944 pistons ... Should be done by end of august
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Old 07-31-2010, 12:03 AM   #60
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Alot of that stuff can be bought used. And some might need custom made. Who knows. I just have a 4 banger

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Follow my build, its cool and stuff: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f118/project-shake-n-bake-a-cummins-cj-188515.html]
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