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Old 01-06-2013, 02:43 AM   #1
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Weird Ignition switch voltage while testing?!

I am gathering everything I need to install a remote starter on my '04 TJ, and was double checking the wiring diagram I got and testing the ignition switch wires. I found something weird, dunno if it's my Jeep or wrong wiring diagram/info...

While testing the ignition switch, in the Jeep field service manual, it shows a thick white/pink wire as being switched only in Run and Acc. It is for the inside fuse panel, fuses 17 and 18 (wipers and cigar outlet.) I tested this wire and it shows +12V in all positions! Weird thing is if I power anything in the lighter outlet, it shows power only in Run and Acc like it should, but that wire at the ign switch has constant 12V always

I don't plan on powering this wire for the remote starter, but wondered if I have a bad switch or what? Anyone have quick access to their switch that could check if it's the same please?

Thanks

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Old 01-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #2
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My schematic shows the 12 gauge white/pink wire as powered only in the Run & Accessory positions. The input side of the ignition switch gets its power from the 40A fuse #13 in the Power Distribution Center, then in the Run/Accessory position the switch then provides power to the 12 gauge white/pink wire which then provides power to the 20A fuse #18 in the fuse block behind the glove box.

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Old 01-06-2013, 12:22 PM   #3
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Thats what the diagram I have shows too, but the white/pink actually tests 12V in all positions.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:00 PM   #4
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Try removing the 40A fuse #40 inside the power distribution center & see if you are still getting 12v on the whilte/pink 12 gauge wire. The 12v you are seeing might be back-feeding in via a bulb filament or similar through the 20A fuse #18 in the fuse block behind the glove box. If the 12v stays put after removing the 40A fuse is removed, that will tell you the ignition switch is ok and the voltage is coming in the back way via fuse #18 in the fuse block behind the glove box.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:02 PM   #5
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If true then the wipers & outlet should work with the key off. You say the outlet doesn't so try the wipers. Then one-by one remove each of the 2 fuses & see what happens at the Ignition switch connector.

Edit, typed before Jerry. By "if true" I meant if the wt/pk wire has power all the time, as stated by the OP.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:21 PM   #6
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Wipers don't work either, that is the weird part with all this. I'm thining the wiring up here is different then the US, but usually it states that in the diagrams (Export Only etc.)

I'll check out the power with the underhood fuse 13 removed and let ya's know. If it still has 12V I'll pull 17 and 18 in the inside fuse panel. Good idea on that, I wouldn't have thought of trying that right away, ty
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:52 PM   #7
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Ok, if I pull fuse 13 from the underhood panel, it stays 12V in all positions still.
I pull fuse 18 from the inside panel its still 12V all.
I pull fuse 17 and the power goes away, and the wire tests like it should (12V only in Acc and Run.)

It goes to the Wiper motor and the Multifunction switch (controls the delay etc for wipers.)
Maybe my mutlifunction switch is going funny? The wipers work fine all speeds, delay works, mist etc etc. Hmm...
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:01 PM   #8
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Bingo, the switch is good.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:24 PM   #9
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Aiy, Looks like it is, thank you for the help on that Jerry and Rubi!

Now to figure out if I need to worry about the multifunction switch or something else or not, lol
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #10
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There are 2 wires going from fuse 18. One to the MF switch & the other to the wiper motor. It seams that one of those is contacting a battery (B+) powered wire. I would disconnect the connector at the MF switch & see if that "fixes" it That will help isolate whether the problem is to the motor or to the MF switch.

Edit: Actually looking at it more, that probably won't do much unless you split the wires from where they leave the fuse block.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:31 PM   #11
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I'd bet it's the controller for the wipers at the MF switch. As it's the only component connected with other things (the wiper motor is seperate, the MFS also has 12V feeds for signals, lights etc...)
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:18 PM   #12
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Yes, but 2 separate connectors & the wiper one (C-2) only shows to control the wiper motor & washer pump & no other 12v feed so I don't know about it being there. I am more inclined to think there is a 12v crossover somewhere. How long have your wipers not been working? Related to this???
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcarusLSC View Post
...
Maybe my mutlifunction switch is going funny? The wipers work fine all speeds, delay works, mist etc etc. Hmm...
My wipers work fine.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:44 PM   #14
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Yes, I see, you meant the wipers don't work with the key off (nor the outlet) but work fine with the key on/acc.

So you have 12v there but not enough power (amps) to actually power the wipers or anything in the outlet socket, right? If so, then what does that wt/pk wire show with the key off & the wipers on?
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:27 PM   #15
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ugh, I hate trying to use my phone to respond, lol (I always end up back upstairs to respond like now )

Yes, your right, the wipers and outlet don't work with the key off, but with the key on/acc as they should. I'm bad at explaining stuff at times, sorry

I'll check the cigar socket for power with it off, but your right, if it's there it's not enough to power anything. I'll check wiper power idea you mention too and get back to ya...
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:28 PM   #16
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Looking at the wiper diagram I’m wondering how the “delay logic and relay control” works. If there is an IC circuit in there could there be residual voltage there feeding back & giving you that 12v reading? Maybe everything is normal, after all everything is working normally, right? Here is from the FSM:

"The intermittent wipe and wipe-after-wash features of the front wiper and washer system are both provided by the electronic intermittent wipe logic circuit within the right multi-function switch. In order to provide the intermittent wipe feature, the logic circuit monitors the wiper switch state, the intermittent delay resistance setting, and the wiper motor park switch state. In order to provide the wipe-after-wash feature, the logic circuit monitors both the front washer switch state and the wiper motor park switch state.
The hard wired circuits and components of the front wiper and washer system may be diagnosed and tested using conventional diagnostic tools and procedures. However, conventional diagnostic methods are not possible in the diagnosis of the intermittent wipe mode circuitry and logic within the right multi-function switch. If the front wiper and washer system operates satisfactorily in all modes except the Delay mode, the faulty right multi-function switch must be replaced. Refer to the appropriate diagnostic information."

Disconnect the connector to the MF switch & I bet the 12v disappears.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:36 PM   #17
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I just wrapped everything up for the night (been running wire and soldering for some minor stereo upgrades.) I'll pull the connector tommorrow and see what happens like you suggest. As we both suspect, I'm betting the 12V disappears too.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:08 AM   #18
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Sorry been swamped with crap this week, not gotten around to doing much of anything on the Jeep...

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