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Old 01-22-2012, 06:04 PM   #1
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welding with oxyacetylene

anyone ever do it? i have a setup but i am only used to brazing copper to copper with it. i have read that soldiers used to use it for welding tanks and whatnot back in the day so i would imagine it would holdup. not sure if i would use it for framework(anyone?) but i am tempted to use it for some bumper fixes/mods. anyone have a specific rod they recommend? i've been reading about RG45 rods and this seems most common. i know it is a slow process but i don't plan on doing a ton of work.i am more than willing to answer anything i may have left out thanks for any input.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:09 PM   #2
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I did it for years when I worked at a muffler shop. I prefer to use mild steel rods, but a wire coat hanger works great, it's just more of a pain to work with. It's great for sheet metal and slightly thicker stuff, you just have to have the right tip.

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Old 01-22-2012, 06:20 PM   #3
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from what i gather you want a low pressure so you don't blow the metal away.i'm not sure what pressures i should set my regulators(if anyone can give a ballpark psi i can adjust from there i guess with practice). thanks s14sh3r. as for "mild steel rods" what do you mean? is there a particular brand. one guy i work with has mentioned the coat hanger method but i am skeptical on using this.aren't different types of hangers made from different materials? i also am not sure if i would use a coathanger for my bumper or frame.hehe. thanks for the input
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:29 PM   #4
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from what i gather you want a low pressure so you don't blow the metal away.i'm not sure what pressures i should set my regulators(if anyone can give a ballpark psi i can adjust from there i guess with practice). thanks s14sh3r. as for "mild steel rods" what do you mean? is there a particular brand. one guy i work with has mentioned the coat hanger method but i am skeptical on using this.aren't different types of hangers made from different materials? i also am not sure if i would use a coathanger for my bumper or frame.hehe. thanks for the input
I use the same pressure when welding as I do when cutting. Using a large enough tip is important. You can compensate with a smaller tip by using more pressure, but it will tend to make the flame lift away from the tip. Usually what happens is it will pop and the flame will go out. As far as the rods I use, they're just plain old mild steel. Wire coathangers do work, they're just a little small. In a pinch, I've beat the flux off 6011 welding rods and used those. I never had any formal welding education, I was shown how to do it when I was a teenager and kept practicing until I got good at it.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:00 PM   #5
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If I only had to have one set up in the shop it would be a gas rig. Can cut, weld, braze, loosen stuck parts.... Been trying to get a set again for years. Get a good puddle going and dip,dip,dip your cares away!!!
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:13 PM   #6
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If I only had to have one set up in the shop it would be a gas rig. Can cut, weld, braze, loosen stuck parts.... Been trying to get a set again for years. Get a good puddle going and dip,dip,dip your cares away!!!

would you weld a frame? or patch a frame with oxy?
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:17 PM   #7
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would you weld a frame? or patch a frame with oxy?
If you had a big enough tip, I don't see why you couldn't weld something that thick. The problem is the amount of heat the torch puts out. It's not as localized as an arc, so you have to be really careful not to set things on fire.

Short answer: I probably wouldn't weld on a frame unless I had no other option.
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:31 PM   #8
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If you had a big enough tip, I don't see why you couldn't weld something that thick. The problem is the amount of heat the torch puts out. It's not as localized as an arc, so you have to be really careful not to set things on fire.

Short answer: I probably wouldn't weld on a frame unless I had no other option.
He is right there. The heat transfer is pretty bad and could lead to making your frame brittle. Check around the site for someone in your area with a welder and see if anyone could lend a hand. I bought myself a MigPack 125. It can do regular flux core welding or you can add a bottle for MIG. Best money I spent in a long time.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:00 PM   #9
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so is this better than oxy?120 Amp Arc Welder

or is this better?MIG / Flux Wire Welder with Wheels - 120 Amp
for welding frames/heavy stuff?

i have a lower control arm that is starting to rot at the frame(just found out when replacing starter) can i cut out the existing bracket that bolts the control arm to the frame,build a tubular frame around it with bracket and oxy weld it to the frame where it is not rotting out?
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #10
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this is not my daily driver.i am pretty good with brazing and i have ordered some steel plates and steel braze rods( i plan on doing a crapload of welding before even attempting something critical). i put about 1-4k miles per year on her. i am considering cutting off my old brackets and building a base around where things are currently mounted.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #11
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Of the two ~~~ MIG / Flux Wire Welder with Wheels - 120 Amp Being the better for what you need.

All though not the IDEAL CHOICE. The 120 Amp is geared
more for very light Welding, such as Body panels and the
like.

Ideally, for Frame / Suspension and Heavier / Thicker
Metals, a 220 Volt would be desired. For up to 3/16 thick,
like Bumpers and Frames, would be more appropriate. Millermatic« 180 Auto-Set

The one you reference, can do the job, provided you have
some knowledge and know how and what to do to compensate for it's lower Welding capabilities.
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:49 PM   #12
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Lightbulb

I use one of these MILLER INTRODUCES NEW MILLERMATIC« DVI ALL-IN-ONE MIG WELDER FEATURING EXCLUSIVE MULTI-VOLTAGE INPUT POWER CORD

and you can find one Under $500 on Craigs List or Evil Bay periodically. It can handle anything you might want to tackle
in Automotive. It has for me, Frames, Body Panels, Axel Tubes, etc. It's rated to 3/8" Welding, but I have done 1/2"
Plate with ease.

Now then, this was only meant to be "Food for Thought",
because, right now, your only thinking of the Smaller
jobs. And in your own words "( i plan on doing a crapload of welding before even attempting something critical). " so think about
it real good. Getting the right one for the job now, could
only save you Money and Headaches later.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:59 AM   #13
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The problem with oxy/acet is inclusion. Spent gasses get caught in the weld - bubbles, voids - weaknesses. The thicker the weld the more gets caught. Cut across a weld - look with a magnifying glass.
Great for heating and bending, cutting, brazing with brass.

The problem with the 110 volt welders is most household 110 circuits are good for 15 amps. Amps=heat. Your wife's blowdrier uses almost 15 amps - can you weld with that little heat? They are great for very light work, sheet metal etc. But nothing heavy. They advertise far more than they can really do properly.

Remember -welding is melting the 2 base materials together - not dribbling bird crap on it. Penetration is not how far down the crack you get it - save that for the bedroom. Penetration is how far into the base material you melt on each side. Cut across the weld - you can see it. Soak it 5 minutes in acid - you can really see penetration then.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:15 AM   #14
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The problem with oxy/acet is inclusion. Spent gasses get caught in the weld - bubbles, voids - weaknesses. The thicker the weld the more gets caught. Cut across a weld - look with a magnifying glass.
Great for heating and bending, cutting, brazing with brass.

The problem with the 110 volt welders is most household 110 circuits are good for 15 amps. Amps=heat. Your wife's blowdrier uses almost 15 amps - can you weld with that little heat? They are great for very light work, sheet metal etc. But nothing heavy. They advertise far more than they can really do properly.

Remember -welding is melting the 2 base materials together - not dribbling bird crap on it. Penetration is not how far down the crack you get it - save that for the bedroom. Penetration is how far into the base material you melt on each side. Cut across the weld - you can see it. Soak it 5 minutes in acid - you can really see penetration then.

If you're getting voids in the weld, you're doing it wrong. Comparing blow dryers to welders? Seriously? This is why it's hard for anyone to take anything you say seriously.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:04 AM   #15
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Im fine with a breaker panel so installing a subpanel or wiring is not a problem. Thanks for the help. I'm gonna get a few years of experience in this week with welding. I have a jeep full of infants and nuns that I need to drive up a cliff side this weekend. If anything bad happens I will have to hold you all liable. "your honor,rrich said I could weld with a hair dryer"
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:12 AM   #16
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His explanation was rudimentary, but relatively accurate given the audience.

To say "If you're getting a void, then you're doing it wrong" is self evident. The oxy/acetylene method is more susceptible to voids and contamination. There are steps to mitigate it.

Oxy/acetylene is fairly crude. The benefit is that it works anywhere, and doesn't require electricity. If you're a farmer and you need to stick something together on the back 40 in a pinch, then oxy/acetylene is the answer.

Rrich's explanation of penetration versus sticking metal together is pretty much correct. If you were to cross-section a typical weld in bar-stock, posich the surface, and etch it with acid (3% Nitric for carbon steels) you'd see the globular cast weld grains extending into the base metal, followed by a heat affected zone with partially transformed grains, and finally the intact forged grains of the parent metal.

With inadequate penetration, you see cast grains dribbled on the parent metal, with sharply delineated transition and no penetration into the parent metal.

Here's a textbook weld failure:




You ca see the cast weld metal, the HAZ, and the unaffected grains in the parent metal. The crack originated in the toe of the weld, which is the typical spot because it had the thinnest cross-section coupled with the weakest structure.

I spent a decade of my life doing failure analysis on gas turbine engine components. I published countless reports just like that.

Ya'll should read it: Weldment Failure Case Study - Weldment lack of fusion, - Cyclic fatigue cracking

BTW, I haven't read it, but I will. It looks thorough at a glance.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:30 AM   #17
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I did a bunch of welding with a O/A torch before I got real welders. It works well, but as mentioned you put a TON of heat into the surrounding metal. You need to get a nice selection of tips and use the right tip for the metal thickness you are welding.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:33 PM   #18
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been a fitter/fabricator/welder for 30+ yrs now. since school a lifetime ago the only use i've had for a gas setup is cutting, brazeing, and pre heating large weldments/alum. depending on your funds, ele setup where you plan to weld, how much and how thick of metal you plan to weld will tell you what you will need. MIG/TIG/flux core are all good though TIG is probably not for you for several reasons(need good fitup, clean parts, and alot of practice to get any good at it) a 5lb spool gun probably the best for cost and all around general use(many can do wire(w/gas) or flux core) if you have the ele setup. for the occasional fixes a cheap buzz box(stick welder) would probably work. actually with a stick you can do some fairly thick stuff if you can get the hang of multi pass welding and they come in a varity of power/duty cycle(higher % is better) sizes. the 3 things that will help the most reguardless of what you choose-good fitup, joint prep(bevel/root pass opening/etc) and surface prep(clean-to the base metal-scale/dirt removal)
going by what you wrote, i'd probably go with a cheap stick welder(unless you have tons of $$ to spend) and use a 6010 rod for penetration and for exposed areas a 7011-they flow better and the weld looks better.
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:38 AM   #19
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Thanks everyone for your input and help. Im going to have someone do the work on my frame and in the meantime get my practice on other stuff like my bumper
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:54 PM   #20
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and use a 6010 rod for penetration and for exposed areas a 7011-they flow better and the weld looks better.
correction-that's a 7018--too many yrs of welding fumes

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