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Old 02-26-2010, 09:04 AM   #1
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What else will I need?

So in the next couple of weeks, I will be ordering this lift with the goodies...

Rubicon Express RE7000-3 3.5 Super-Flex Kit & SYE Combo and Shoc

I feel like a kid again that can't wait for Christmas!!! Anyway, is there anything else I will need to or should get along with this kit? I don't want any surprises after I've already gotten into installing this thing that will keep me from finishing as quickly as possible. I already have a set of pro comp xterrains 33x12.50's setting in the garage looking at me.

I'm sure plenty of you have installed this kit and could give me some pointers?
Special tools that would come in handy?

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Old 02-26-2010, 11:32 AM   #2
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I installed the same kit in my jeep last October.I went with the all 8 adjustable control arms,not sure its realy needed,but for the price,I figured it might be handy later.You need either really high (6 ton) jack stands or as I did,cut up a 2x12 board in 12" squares to make spacers under the 3.5 ton stands.you really want to get the frame up as high as you can to allow the axle to drop enough to pull the coil springs out by hand.I also disconnected the steering lingage along with trackbar,swaybar ETC,to let the axle really drop.Use the floor jack with a block of wood under the front disc to lift it while your trying to get the opposite coil spring out.I already had a rear trackbar bracket from my OME lift ,so installing the new RE bracket was not so bad,but If I hadnt,i would spring for the RE adjustable rear trackbar to make things easier.You picked a very good short arm kit,Im very happy with mine....

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Old 02-26-2010, 11:39 AM   #3
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As recommended at the end of the product description, I also strongly encourage you to install a SYE and CV driveshaft. That lift is going to be more like 4-4.5" in actual height and it will be hard to get rid of the vibes that much height will give with just a t-case drop, even if you also add a 1" motor mount lift.

You will also need a rear trackbar relocation bracket. I see one in the photo but the description doesn't mention it so make sure it includes that bracket. And if you go ahead and get the strongly recommended SYE kit and CV driveshaft, it will require a different rear angled trackbar relocation bracket that RE makes.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:51 PM   #4
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Jerry,
His kit is the combo kit that comes with the SYE/CV driveshaft. If you use the sye/cv,you need to use a different trackbar bracket then the one that comes with the RE kit? im confused?
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:15 PM   #5
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willysmb,
Did you get the kit with the sye/cv? After all the investigating the options in lifts, I figured I would regret not going ahead and getting this. Plus, I don't like the look of the transfer case spacers. So, I'm confused too. Do I need to make sure this kit comes with a "different rear angled trackbar relocation bracket"? And how important is the rear adjustable trackbar? I guess what I'm saying is, is it a neccessity?
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by willysmb View Post
Jerry,
His kit is the combo kit that comes with the SYE/CV driveshaft. If you use the sye/cv,you need to use a different trackbar bracket then the one that comes with the RE kit? im confused?
DUH yup, I see that now. Heh, the description even says SYE & Tom Wood DS. I guess I just went by what was in the photo of the kit that doesn't show the SYE or CV driveshaft.

However, since it does come with the SYE and the CV driveshaft, no doubt the rear trackbar mount is the angled version the CV driveshaft requires.

Pay no attention to me, carry on.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:05 PM   #7
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willysmb,
Did you get the kit with the sye/cv? After all the investigating the options in lifts, I figured I would regret not going ahead and getting this. Plus, I don't like the look of the transfer case spacers. So, I'm confused too. Do I need to make sure this kit comes with a "different rear angled trackbar relocation bracket"? And how important is the rear adjustable trackbar? I guess what I'm saying is, is it a neccessity?
Yes ,I got the kit with the advance adapters SYE and Tom Wood cv driveshaft.Its definetly a good move,you really should have it with the RE lift.On the rear trackbar bracket,im not sure what Jerry means.Im not aware of different brackets.All the bracket does is relocate the one end of the stock trackbar so its length will work correctly with the new higher lift.Without it,the axle will not be centered under the jeeps body after the lift.Installing the bracket requires drilling some holes in a kinda tight spot,and can be a pain.I used the trackbar bracket,but the adjustable rear trackbar can be lengthened and I believe mounted without the trackbar bracket (like the stock bar) and fix the axle centering problem.You need one or the other,the kit comes with the bracket,the rear adj trackbar is like 150 bucks or so.I bought the adj tracbar after I did my lift because I had a 5/8th inch offset on my axle .By the time the adj tracbar arrived,the suspension must have settled (shifted) to nicely centered.Figures right LOL!
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:16 PM   #8
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DUH yup, I see that now. Heh, the description even says SYE & Tom Wood DS. I guess I just went by what was in the photo of the kit that doesn't show the SYE or CV driveshaft.

However, since it does come with the SYE and the CV driveshaft, no doubt the rear trackbar mount is the angled version the CV driveshaft requires.

Pay no attention to me, carry on.
No worrys Jerry!,your input is always very solid and appreciated.You see,I learned from it,I wasnt aware of different brackets,and come to think of it when I removed my OME trackbar bracket,it was straight and my new RE was angled,just thought RE had a different look ?
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by willysmb View Post
On the rear trackbar bracket,im not sure what Jerry means. Im not aware of different brackets. All the bracket does is relocate the one end of the stock trackbar so its length will work correctly with the new higher lift.
The angled bracket compensates for the fact that the track bar bracket on the axle changes its angle when the axle is rotated to raise the pinion angle. An adjustable trackbar means the end of the trackbar can be rotated to match the new angle but it's still not perfect. The angled trackbar bracket compensates perfectly for the angle created by rotating the axle to raise the pinion angle for the CV driveshaft

The first pic shows the standard trackbar relocation bracket, the second pic shows the angled version that is useful for when a CV driveshaft has been installed & the pinion angle has been raised accordingly. Both photos are from RE's website. The pic in the lift kit photo shows the wrong track bar relocation bracket for a CV driveshaft, I would verify you're getting the right one which is an RE 1602.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:23 PM   #10
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Thanks guys. So sounds like everything I'm gonna need, I'm gonna have? Anybody have anything else I should know about?

I'm really excited about this lift! I don't think I've heard any complaints about it.

I can't wait to post my before and after pics!!!
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:24 PM   #11
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Just verify that the rear track bar relocation bracket is an RE 1602 as I added to my above post about the time you just posted. The one they show in the photo is the wrong one for a CV driveshaft.
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:06 PM   #12
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x2 . . . double check the bracket and make sure they send you the right one . . . call me a skeptic, but I'd be surprised if they send you the correct CV style one. Be sure to keep an eye on your CA bushings . . . be sure to set things up so they are not angled in the bracket . . . and just keep a close eye on them after you go wheeling as many have had issues with the RE bushings . . . I know I did, and the "new and improved" set weren't any better. Luckily RE was always good about standing behind their product and offering replacements on the house. Good luck with the install . . . it's really not too bad . . . it really helps to have a buddy, even if they're not all that mechanically inclined, it's amazing how much easier some things are when someone can simply shake the Jeep or hold that there!!!
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:13 PM   #13
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Have the issues with the CA bushings led to having to replace with another brand?
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:15 PM   #14
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And definetely have to have a buddy if for nothing else to drink beer with while turning wrenches!
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:16 PM   #15
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schmo,
Just to clarify,the CA bushings your referring to are the black rubber ones ,not the heim joint end correct?I put my RE superflex kit on last October,havent done any 4 wheeling requiring the swaybar to be disconnected or anything like that,but I havent noticed any play or bushing problems with the CA,s yet, no clunking or noise.For what its worth I ordered my RE superflex kit from 4x4 groupbuy with the SYE/CV included and I got the correct trackbar bracket,even though I wouldnt have known the difference at the time LOL!
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:41 PM   #16
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schmo,
Just to clarify,the CA bushings your referring to are the black rubber ones ,not the heim joint end correct?I put my RE superflex kit on last October,havent done any 4 wheeling requiring the swaybar to be disconnected or anything like that,but I havent noticed any play or bushing problems with the CA,s yet, no clunking or noise.For what its worth I ordered my RE superflex kit from 4x4 groupbuy with the SYE/CV included and I got the correct trackbar bracket,even though I wouldnt have known the difference at the time LOL!
Yes the black rubber bushings . . . never had any problems myself nor have I heard from others about problems with their joints . . . just the bushings. Seems hit and miss . . . another one of those every Jeep is different. My Jeep eats bushings . . . that's all I can say, the OEM held up fine but I was replacing RE and Full Traction bushings after every other trip when I had them. One of my buddies has had the same problem and is on his 3rd set of RE bushings in about 6 months . . . then I have another buddy who has been wheeling the hell out of his Jeep for two years plus on the same poly ProComp bushings and they look fine. Good to hear about them sending the correct bracket . . . RE seems to be better than most . . . still a good thing to check.

Here's what would happen on my Rear UCAs . . .

[IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
. . . would just tear in half . . . the last straw was, I got a "new and improved" bushing and it did the same thing in a matter of weeks . . . don't even think I'd been offroad.


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Have the issues with the CA bushings led to having to replace with another brand?
It's up to you . . . you either replace the bushings, replace the arm, or if you have the tools, I've seen a lot of guys chop off the end with the bushing and weld a joint onto that end so you have the ball style joints on both ends. I ended up replacing all of my arms with those from Currie with Johnny Joints on both ends . . . probably the best mod I've done to the Jeep . . . much better performance and no more messing around with bushings all the time.
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:49 PM   #17
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Wow! Do you think RE doesnt include heim joints on both ends because of cost? gunna keep an eye on them for sure now!
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:33 AM   #18
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So what is the preferred "joint" haha...heim joints or johnny joints? Which is better and will last the longest?
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:04 AM   #19
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Wow! Do you think RE doesnt include heim joints on both ends because of cost? gunna keep an eye on them for sure now!
RE had a bad batch from their bushing supplier, that is all. It's not an ongoing problem.

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So what is the preferred "joint" haha...heim joints or johnny joints? Which is better and will last the longest?
Johnnie-Joints and similar steel to polyurethane race joints are far longer lasting and quieter than metal-to-metal heim joints are.
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:18 AM   #20
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RE had a bad batch from their bushing supplier, that is all. It's not an ongoing problem.
Not sure I agree with you on this one Jerry (probably the first time ) . . . that's absolutely the answer that RE provided, but the "new and improved" bushing with the four injection marks on the one side that were supposed to be the cure to the issues, yeah that bushing split in half faster than any of the rest and was the straw the broke the camal's back and why I ended up shelling out for another pair of Currie Arms. A buddy of mine has a full set of 8 RE arms and is having the same issues . . . new or old bushings doesn't seem to make a bit of difference. Now the "old" RE arms that had OEM style bushings are supposed to hold up really well . . . and based on my stock arms, I believe it, but it seems like once they went with the hourglass shaped bushings, it went to hell. As I mentioned before, every Jeep seems to be different and they may work just fine on other's Jeeps. I'm not sure if my brackets came tweaked from the factory or something, but I couldn't get my Rear UCAs to sit in the bracket straight, and it looked like there was constant pressure on the bushing . . . it would just be a matter of time to where that spot with the pressure would split and then that side would just split all the way thru. The Currie with JJs on each end, eliminate the pressure as the ball doesn't care what angle it's at sitting in the bracket. Just my experience, nothing more.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:17 PM   #21
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Wow! Do you think RE doesnt include heim joints on both ends because of cost? gunna keep an eye on them for sure now!
I'm not really sure if it's a cost issue or not . . . I'm surprised that they haven't started offering CA's with Joints on each end vs. the Joint and Bushing combo . . . seems like if they kept an eye on all the bad press their bushings are giving them and the popularity of the Currie/Rokmen CAs, they would have done that some time ago. Perhaps their designers agree with what I consider to be nothing more than internet hype about needing a bushing to control vibes, road noise, etc . . . pure hogwash in my opinion . . . I love the Currie CAs with joints on both ends . . . far better on and off road. Road noise . . . WTH . . . it's a Jeep with a soft top and chunked Mud Terrain tires . . . not like it's going to be quiet anyway . . . but I didn't notice a difference as far as road noise . . . well wait, I guess I did . . . that awful clunking noise caused by the play in a failed bushing has disappeared. Lot's of guys run RE kits without issues . . . I don't want to slam RE as they've always given me good service and stood behind their product (Full Traction is a totally different story and I'll slam them any chance I get . . . BASTARDS). . . but I personally would not put another CA on my Jeep that had a bushing in it period . . . I've just had too many headaches . . . for your viewing pleasure . . . a nice little combo of RE and FT failures.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:22 PM   #22
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Schmo, I think you're making a lot over that issue that is nothing more than a bad batch of bushings. Even my RE long-arms have rubber bushings at one end and they have been fine for six years now. RE had a bad batch or two of them but they are working through that issue, nothing more than that.

And rubber bushings at one end of the arm does work well for a Jeep that has to be driven on the street. Mine certainly do and they don't clunk because my six year old RE bushings were not part of the bad batch. I repeat that, my RE bushings are six years old and have no problems. Your personal issues with RE are one thing but a bad batch or two of bad bushings is not a sign the world is coming to an end.
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:28 PM   #23
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Agree - RE had a bad batch - then switched over to another type - those were even worse!
They've got it all under control now.


The rear trackbar relocation bracket isn't especially for centering. It also lowers the pivot point about 2 inches. That helps keep the trackbar from pulling the axle from side to side on bumps. It still isn't enough though, the rear axle still moves and causes rear bumpsteer.
If the lift is 4", the axle end needs to raise 4" - or the other end lowered 4" Neither end has room for a full 4". splitting it 2 and 2 on each end is fine.

Trackbars, or Panhards as they are more commonly called, need to be as close to level with the ground as practical.

Look at the new FabTech lifts, they come with brackets for both ends to help eliminate rear bumpsteer.
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:38 PM   #24
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Interesting, I have never given the rear trackbar's angle a moment's thought. I'll have to look into that, thanks rrich.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:05 PM   #25
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Schmo, I think you're making a lot over that issue that is nothing more than a bad batch of bushings. Even my RE long-arms have rubber bushings at one end and they have been fine for six years now. RE had a bad batch or two of them but they are working through that issue, nothing more than that.

And rubber bushings at one end of the arm does work well for a Jeep that has to be driven on the street. Mine certainly do and they don't clunk because my six year old RE bushings were not part of the bad batch. I repeat that, my RE bushings are six years old and have no problems. Your personal issues with RE are one thing but a bad batch or two of bad bushings is not a sign the world is coming to an end.
With all the recent earthquakes . . . do we really need any more signs?

With all due respect . . . I wish I could agree with you on this one like I usually do, Jerry . . . but I'm having difficulty. The bad bushing excuse has been given for a least a couple of years now, and yet myself and others have still experienced issues within the last six months, even with the "new, improved, good batch, with the four injection moldings" bushings. I find it hard to believe that this ongoing issue is stemming from a bad batch or two of bushings when this has been a known issue for 2-3 years, and especially when the replacements they've sent recently to correct the bad batch problems are even worse. Again, as I mentioned before, I'm not trying to slam RE as they were better than most about standing behind their product and as I've mentioned, it may very well be that some of us are just having the one off "every Jeep is different" type of issue where something came out of whack from the factory on some Jeeps . . . I don't know but after replacing several sets of new bushings, beating my head against the wall, and a fair share of profanity, I gave up on the CAs with bushings and went with double JJs and haven't had an issue since. I don't know what else you would have suggested that I do after installing a new and improved bushing from a good batch only to have it split in half in a couple of weeks (literally . . . I'm not exagerating here). I like RE and the guys there and hope they figure this out . . . I don't know why they don't just go back to the OEM style bushings that all the guys with old RE kits swear by for the guys that are worried about things like road noise . . . and bring out a double joint arm for guys like me that don't care all that much about a little road noise or whatever and want the performance and durability that the double joints offer.

Out of curiosity . . . the arms that you have that are 6 years old . . . are those OEM style bushings like RE used to use or are they the newer hourglass bushings like they use now? The guys that I spoke with that have the old style arms absolutely swear by them like you do . . . however the guys with the new style hourglass bushings . . . not so much.

Here's a bit of light reading for any that might be interested. There are also a few write ups from guys that have chopped the bushing and welded a Joint onto that end for those that experience the issues and want to go that route.

Rubicon Owners Forum - View topic - Rubicon Express Rubber Bushings

Rubicon Owners Forum - View topic - Rubicon Express Question

JK bushings shot after 6k - Page 2 - MJR

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